CA. Boca Juniors -the team & referees -

Discussion in 'Copa Libertadores / Sudamericana' started by psss, Jun 8, 2007.

  1. psss

    psss New Member

    Jun 8, 2007
    boca juniors is team known in south america for winning games in the libertadores with help of the refs.

    Last night the ref did not call a penalty in the first half when pahoy was rugby tackled by an argentinian defender. Then he gives riquelme a free kick on the top of the area. but was there really a foul there? Ofcourse the uruguayian referee gives yellows to the colombians but not to the argentines who make vicious tackles. uruguay is a brother country of argentina and always help each other like this. they only bring shame to their countries. There also was another penalty at the end of the second half, again pahoy fouled. Please. argentinians qualify but everyone knows they are bathed in shame.
     
  2. Dr. Know

    Dr. Know Member+

    Dec 5, 2005
    Macondo
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    What a pathetic sock.

    Boca got the worst ref call in this whole Libertadores that could have easily left them out.

    3 goals yesterday and it could have been much more. Cucuta got outplayed after deciding to bunker in La Bombonera like small clubs do. Get over it.

    A llorar a la sala de maternidad.
     
  3. FARFAN 17

    FARFAN 17 Member

    Jan 29, 2005
    Back in NJ :(
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    I wish the game would have been delayed for at least 30 minutes, so the fog went away. It was unfair conditions for such an important game.
     
  4. psss

    psss New Member

    Jun 8, 2007
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    cucuta didn't get outplayed. remember the aggregate score was 4-3. only a goal difference! and cucuta also could have scored way more in the first leg as boca could of scored more in the second.

    Despite the blue shirt, the hype, and the name, boca juniors remains undistinguuished amongst the competition, and needed the refeeres help to win the match.
     
  5. Peñarol1891

    Peñarol1891 New Member

    Jun 23, 2006
    Bar Michigan
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    Yeah, what an advantage, ********ing Boca always playing close to the river. Fifa should ban games at sea level so close to the water too!

    http://www.observa.com.uy/Osecciones/deportes/nota.aspx?id=78595

    Cucuta complaining about the fog, give me a break!
    If we start to complain for things like that, we're gonna end up playing indoor with AC.

    Sin niebla se hubieran comido 5
     
  6. icyliquid

    icyliquid New Member

    Apr 14, 2007
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    Bathed in shame? wtf..anda a lavarte las bolas y a llorar a la iglesia. First you start whinning about the argies throwing flares on the pitch, did you all see the game in Colombia they were also throwing things at the Boca players, so don't give me that shit. The players know sh!t like that happens in the Libertadores. As its been mentioned if it wasnt for the fog, it would've been a 5 a 0.
    That being said...Props to Cucuta for their excellent campaing.

    Socks now a days say the silliest things:rolleyes:
     
  7. jass

    jass Member

    Oct 12, 2006
    Club:
    Parana Curitiba
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    It was delayed 45 minutes.

    And boca had a goal annuled because the ref couldnt see the offisde.
     
  8. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    Boca could have scored some goals in Colombia in the first half, before the heat got to them. Boca got the better of the play in the first 45 minutes, and Cucuta got the second half. And in Buenos Aires it was basically a monologue, Cucuta did very little.

    I'm not trying to put them down, Cucuta did well to get that far, they were the surprise team of the tournament, they played attractive football, they should get props for all that. But they were clearly outplayed by Boca. They were lucky to lose the series only 4-3. Don't let your bias as a fan fool you.
     
  9. FARFAN 17

    FARFAN 17 Member

    Jan 29, 2005
    Back in NJ :(
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    The game was delayed 45 minutes? Do you mean at the beginning? Well in the end it was useless.
     
  10. psss

    psss New Member

    Jun 8, 2007
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    boca was superior i admit that. but they still use the referees help!!!!!!!!!!! even the experts at fox sports agree the refereeing wasn't all that great.
     
  11. psss

    psss New Member

    Jun 8, 2007
    boca gremio in buenos aires: another brotherly uruguayan refeere

    once again the argentines beign refereed by the helping hand of their brothers from uruguay.

    I just have one thing to say. Don't be surprised when referees from other countries start raising bizare offsides flags and cancelling your rightly scored goals. Isn't that what happened againts libertad? You can only keep cheating for so long before retaliation begins.

    Enjoy the colombian ref in Brazil. lets see how professional he will be.
     
  12. psss

    psss New Member

    Jun 8, 2007
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    anybody that reallly understands a football match can see the refereeing completely canceled the chances cucuta had.
     
  13. SoccerScout

    SoccerScout Member

    Jan 3, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    Internacional Porto Alegre
    Re: boca gremio in buenos aires: another brotherly uruguayan refeere

    Gremio is from RS which is uruguays neighbor....
     
  14. psss

    psss New Member

    Jun 8, 2007
    Re: boca gremio in buenos aires: another brotherly uruguayan refeere

    your point???
     
  15. SoccerScout

    SoccerScout Member

    Jan 3, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    Internacional Porto Alegre
    Re: boca gremio in buenos aires: another brotherly uruguayan refeere

    Whats your point?

    The Uruguayan ref may have grown up on the Brazilian Border and been a Gremio fan for all we know....I dint think Uruguayans favor Argies...
     
  16. guri

    guri Member+

    Apr 10, 2002
    Re: boca gremio in buenos aires: another brotherly uruguayan refeere

    Stop the whining already!!!!

    Larrionda is the best ref in Conmebol right now. Everybody knows that.
    The colombians had Boca on the ropes, and when it came time to step on their head and kill them, their soiled their pants as they usually do.
    And then they blame it on the refs, as they usually do, or the argentine-uruguayan brotherhood conspiracy.
    Shut the ******** up and grow some balls already.
    This whining is getting old...
     
  17. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-


    While I agree with you in some respect, one thing does not cancel the other. Boca had a good first half in Cucuta and I recall a shot by Ibarra that smashed the post really hard around the middle of the second half. I think that after that the local conditions favored Cucuta who made the most out of it. Was a closer game

    The game in B.A. was heavily one-sided and the MVP was Cucuta's goalie. However there are a few calls that can affect the outcome of the game and believe me, Boca gets those calls 90% of the time, specially when playing in La Bombonera. With a subtle but effective refereeing, the field can be tilted one way, calling stupid fouls for one team and not calling some hard ones on the other. And that happened to Cucuta, the referee missed a few calls here and there and started to bring Boca closer to Cucuta's Box blowing the whistle in strange calls.

    Riquelme's goal was a thing of beauty, but the foul that originated the free-kick did not exist. And while the kids from Cucuta got yellow-carded almost instantly, Boca players got away with more-than-rough plays. Of course, after a few minutes of that a team is against the ropes, cannot defend too hard for risking playing with one man less, cannot get out of their own field because they'll be rugby-tackled with no foul called, and get a lot of free-kicks against very difficult to defend.

    The final play, when Caranta touches the ball and his momentum make him trip Pajoy is the kind of play that if in favor of Boca will be a PK without hesitation. I did not see the first 20 minutes of the game, but apparently there was another one just like that at that time.

    Boca was superior? Probably yes. Did Boca get help from the referee? off course, more than needed. See, Boca is a great team, has great fans and never ever gives up, but this kind of favoritism make us perceive that their titles are tainted.
     
  18. efernandez9

    efernandez9 Member

    Jun 6, 1999
    Joe Pool Lake
    Re: CA. Boca Juniors -the team the referees help-

    psss

    what part of mexico are you in?
     
  19. psss

    psss New Member

    Jun 8, 2007
    Re: CA. Boca Juniors -the team the referees help-

    get ready for this one. cause this is the worse.

    1rst half bustos prepares to take his free kick. he places the ball on the ground with care. when he is done palermo steps up and pushes the ball down burying it into the pitch.
    bustos complains and steps up to place the ball carefully once again as he can not kick a buried ball. The uruguayian referee shows bustos a yellow card. Why? Probaly for setting up the ball twice. I guess bustos should of kicked that buried ball.

    After the game the uruguyaian ref prolly got together with argentinian Palermo and giggled about it.

    How pathetic does boca get? Disgrace.
     
  20. indio48

    indio48 New Member

    Mar 6, 2007
    Re: CA. Boca Juniors -the team the referees help-

    :)


    That kind of incident doesn't surprise me ... if it happened as you state that is ... While I was adamant of this stories being exagerations once upon a time ... Now I am not so sure ... I mean did you look a tthe last two WC qualifiers where Uruguay had meet Argentina in the last game in Montevideo ... lol ... and the results and performance of the Argies has allways been highly questionable ...

    Having said that ... there is been many a time where an Argie refs have farked up the Uruguayan national teams in said qualifiers ... in the run up to WC 2006 the Argies referees benefited Brasil in said fixtures when they played Uruguay ... but then again an Argie ref did the Charruas a favour when they were under the pump in LIma against Peru ... it all evens out I guess ...

    ;)
     
  21. vipnerd

    vipnerd Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2003
    La Mitad + Román
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-


    Non of the 2 were pks, and wouldn't have been called in Boca's favor either. In Cardozo's goal, called offside on Palermo ... the only one who could really see if there was an "active offside" was the ref. The linesman could not tell if it was active or passive from his side. But it was the linesman's call.

    Cucuta distorted the semis in the first leg. With their fireworks until late at nite, throwing things to the players all game long. How NOT NORMAL is it to have police shields protecting players? As bad as some of you want to make the Bombonera sound, you don't need policemen protecting projectiles.

    Do you guys know how much the heat affects the Boca players? And all of a sudden there is no water in the visiting locker room? Is this fair play? Or to water the field before the game so that the water converts into vapor with the heat inside the roaring stadium, that would further affect Boca players?

    It is ironic to hear that Cucuta was too naive when they went to La Bombonera to play. All the actions in the first leg contradict this. In Bs As, Cucuta did not want to postpone the game 'til the day after. They argued they needed to be back to face (DIM?) on Sunday. Heard it from the President himself. IMO, there was too much ambition thinking that both objectives, Cup and local tournie, could be won. And thought that the 3-1 was long enuff to take them to the final.

    So when the BS As game starts, what makes a Boca player have an advantage over the colombians due to the fog. Do you guys know how unusual the fog is in Argentine football? Do you guys get FSE or TyC? When do you see games in the fog? Commentators had to go back 15 years to find 2 times that this has happened in a Boca game.

    Cucuta was outplayed in the first half at home, before the heat took a toll on Boca midway into the 2nd half. And after the free kick goal, Boca was completely broken when they tried to go forward and find a goal that put things back in order in the score. There, Cucuta could had made itself a favor ... they didn't. How much of this was due to football skills and how much was the opponent being drained?

    In Bs As, it was an all attack. With quality football and lots of movility. Inside the first 10 minutes three clear chances were missed. In each half. In the meantime, Caranta only saw a free kick come his way. In this same context, the yellow on Bustos was for moving the ball back as the wall was formed. He was trying to gain more distance in order to have an easier shot. That is why Palermo marked the grass, not because the Cucuta player was moving forward the ball but trying to gain more than the 9.15 mts while the ref was placing the wall in the right place. Of course Bustos deserves a yellow for doing so, specially after the ref had told him not to move the ball any more.

    In synthesis, I can see the heart breaking in the Cucuta fans and the rest of the colombian fans. There were big hopes on this team after the first leg and the 2-2 in Montevideo. But Nacional is no Boca ... and the Bombonera does intimidate. And I did not even mention Riquelme yet ...



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  22. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    Here we disagree, I think that Boca would have gotten any of the two if the foul was against them.

    Difficult refereeing, probably you are right, and if you read my post I accept that the game was very one-sided.

    Throwing stuff at players: It seems ironic that now that is NOT NORMAL for a team that plays in S.A. and in a Local tournament that has been suspended how many times due to fan violence? What about the fireworks and the stuff that was thrown to Zapata after the second goal? Pulleeeeeze...:rolleyes:

    Water on the field: And what are you going to do about it, call Grondona and get FIFA to ban games with humidity over 85%? Libertadores is about home field advantage, but it is unfair if used agains Boca?

    Water on the locker room: Probably was some tricksery, I can see it, but Cucuta was under a heavy water shortage due to lack of rain and I think some oil spillage, just reading the local news your managers should have known it and being able to bring some Gatorade or Water Gallons.

    This I totally agree with you, Cucuta tried to grab too much and went home empty handed. You cannot have both, LT and Liberadores.

    I think that the game was difficult but I am one of the few that did not see the fog as a machination from Boca fans, I agree with you it affects both sides.

    Agree with you, after the 2nd goal even Ibarra blasted a shot to the pole and the third goal came out of no where, probably because defenders were a little tired.

    I did not make that coment and I did not see the play, that is your version, but again a Yellow Card to the free-kick taker is something you do not see everyday, only against Boca foes...


    Apparently the most intimidated were the referees, who yellow-carded 3 Cucuta players in the first half but none from Boca eventhough I think one of the fouls prevented a clear chance for Cucuta. Furthermore the foul that originated the first goal was not, even Miembro said it. Look I'm not saying that Boca was not a better team, specially in the first half in Cucuta and the second Half in BA, but you can ask people from other countries and they'll tell you how biased the referees look from outside.
     
  23. vipnerd

    vipnerd Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2003
    La Mitad + Román
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-


    I will use Russo's remarks before and after the 2nd leg: "You did not see us complaining of everything that went on in Cucuta. This is Libertadores." These incidents were briefly mentioned before the game in the media broadcasting the game and NEVER AGAIN. I am documenting facts for most of you to know some things that went on, that Boca had to "eat" and yet never "threw-up".

    To imply that the ref was determinat in the outcome of the semis is poor. There were way too many chances missed, most control of the games and the right attitude to go forward in both ties.

    This Boca team differs greatly from past Boca teams ... this one is thinking of the opposite goal 90% of the time. It is "light" to roughen up advesaries ... the roughening up comes with the ball, playing football.

    And the refereeing has been nothing short of disgraceful against Boca thruout the Libertadores ... the red on Cata in Toluca, the red on Neri in Cuzco, the red on Ledesma against Velez, the goal invalidated at home against Libertad. Not to add that Riquelme was fouled a couple dozen times in Cucuta, yet the opponents were barely bothered by the ref.

    Could it be the "warning" of Cucuta's authorities, prior to the game thru speakers at the stadium, that the referee was not going to steal the game from them? Some thought it was intimidation. they described as "insolito" (add english word here).

    The semis are gone now ... but it was 2 legs. Lets stay objective in both. To "assume" that Boca would get pks that Cucuta didn't is not a fair comment. It is hypothetical and will always accomodate to justify own mistakes.

    Btw ... you know how many pks Boca got in the Libertadores? One at home against Bolivar the night of the 7-0. One against Velez the night of the tackle on Palacio's face ... and the one at home against Libertad after the wrestling foul on Riquelme. Yet Boca lost 4 away games. Where is the help?

    It is time for some fans around the continent to at least pay respect to the courage of this Boca team. It talks with the ball. Hopefully, this football can take the team to overcome the difficult Gremio in the finals.


    PS: There was water in the visiting dressing rooms up to 30 minutes prior to the kick-off, when Boca arrived. They were promised it would be back in 15 minutes. Never did. This is the responsibility of the home team ... to hire a water truck if needed. This was just a "criolle" move to affect Boca. The players couldn't shower at halftime, after running in the heat. And used small water bottles to refresh themselves.

    Now, my comment on the above: pathetic. Cucuta established the "rules of operation" in the tie. The only thing that can be argued against Boca is the paper roll that hit the goalie. Lets say it wasn't opened on purpose, to hit him. It would be retarded, yet Boca club can't be blamed for it.


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  24. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    I know of a lot of fans that did, but basically Cucuta showed a lot of sportmanship in BA and kept playing despite the fog and the stuff threw at them...

    Again, one thing does not cancel the other. You can have a good team and some help from the referees.

    And there is another reason why it is so shameful to see the way some referees help a team that does not need it...

    Therefore you as a Boca fan, can see the unfair refereeing and hostile when Boca plays away.... mmmmm.... interesting.

    Well, they're gone, Boca was superior, Boca won. Still you can wonder what if...


    I have not said that Boca was always favored by referees, but that in BA was very obvious. And besides Local-friendly referees are part of Libertadores Folklore, only that it is insane what your team gets away with...


    This sounds like stuff of Urban legend, but let me research it. However the water shortage due to Oil spillage was true and I can documented it. And sudenly the water bottles thrown to Zapata become paper rolls ? :rolleyes: and yes, the team on the field cannot be blamed for it, same way the team on the field on Cucuta cannot be blamed for the stuff that falls on your Corner takers...
     
  25. vipnerd

    vipnerd Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 26, 2003
    La Mitad + Román
    Re: Boca juniors -the team the referees help-

    We are talking about the club: players, coaches, dirigentes ... and in some proportion the press? None of the above.


    And you can have a bad team and help from the referees. And you can have a bad team and no help. And you can have ... Get the point?


    Shameful to whom? To a Boca team that is superior on the field? How? What should they do ... if it is the case?

    I'll simplify it for you. When you have 80% posesion of the ball, of course you will most likely get so many more calls on your favor. Common dude. Is that science called probability?


    If you call the ones that you believe affects your side, at least be unbiassed and re-watch the other game. If you won't, I have nothing to argue with you. It is about facts and reasoning ... not hypotheticizing. I haven't seen many complain about the first game, nor I, but you guys complain of the 2nd. I bring this up for you to have a fair look at both games.


    ...


    When you get Amarilla ... Boca always gets him. When you get Silvera ... he was brought to favor Boca. Common man. Be serious. Reaching 5 finals in 8 years means 14 x 5 = 70 games. Not counting the other 2 years. It is obvious that some refs need ot be repeated. And that CONMEBOL has to TRY to allocate the most capable in the latter instances of the cup.

    What referees do you suggest? Hint: Can't be Colombian nor Argentine in a Boca vs Cucuta tie.


    After the 2nd goal, what I saw was smoking fireworks, not objects. I saw the paper roll hit the goalie at the start of the 1st half. Then again, I criticize all of those. Un-needed. But here again comes the: Cucuta set the rules of the game in the 1st leg. Don't expect more ... but something close for sure.




    Boca does not need refs to win games. This year more than in prior editions of the Libertadores, Boca has lost 4 times away from home. Received 2+3+3+3 in those. It is because Boca is an offensive team that doesn't know how to defend. So don't be surprised when at home that offensive team rolls over opponents ... except for Libertad, when, to be accurate, Roman was injured.


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