Burn Out

Discussion in 'Girls Youth Soccer' started by Paterfamilias.75, Apr 16, 2012.

  1. Paterfamilias.75

    Paterfamilias.75 New Member

    Sep 28, 2011
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Looking for some input.. I have a 6 yr old that started playing academy soccer this last fall. Everything is going great so far, although in speaking w/other parents, I’ve noticed we are one of the few that doesn’t have our daughter playing on multiple teams. We’ve been asked on more than one occasion to play on other teams as well, but to date I’ve politely declined. My fear is that it will burn out my daughter in the long run. Practicing 3-4 nights a week and playing 2+ games a weekend just seems a bit much at this age.

    I’m all for getting my daughter as many touches/playing time as possible, but can’t help feeling playing on multiple teams will wear her down over time. Ultimately, I know at this age it’s a crap shoot & every player is different.. but again just looking for varying thoughts/observations.

    In the end, being one of the few that doesn’t play on multiple teams doesn’t bother me.. I will do what is best for her & not worry about the group. It did get me thinking though. Are there more over-zealous parents out there who aren’t looking years down the road than I realize or is this now simply the norm? Growing up playing club soccer, I knew players that grew to hate the sport.. and speaking w/them in the later years the most common cause was simply over-saturation.
     
  2. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    " I have a 6 yr old that started playing academy soccer this last fall. Everything is going great so far, although in speaking w/other parents, I’ve noticed we are one of the few that doesn’t have our daughter playing on multiple teams. We’ve been asked on more than one occasion to play on other teams as well, but to date I’ve politely declined. My fear is that it will burn out my daughter in the long run. Practicing 3-4 nights a week and playing 2+ games a weekend just seems a bit much at this age"

    Go by your instincts it seems right to me. But I am an old guy, and maybe I have lived too long. I remember in the old days when 6 yr olds on average had an attention span of about an hour. I think practicing 2 times or maybe 3 times a week for an hour is enough for a 6 year old.

    I remember when they played for a club even at 6 like everyone else and not an "Academy" Plus charging over 60 dollars for a season fall/spring here in Brooklyn would be unheard of then.

    "I’m all for getting my daughter as many touches"

    You can do that yourself with your daught and have fun for you and her at the same time. Don't forget to teach her a cool goal scoring celebration.

    "playing time as possible,"

    On game a week should be enough for her at that age.

    "but can’t help feeling playing on multiple teams will wear her down over time."

    How many kids do you have? How many sports do each child play?

    Just getting them all around to those, and to dancing school, and to gymnastics, music.

    I told you I am an old fashion type an old man now :) been in my head I am still a 20 yr old.

    Just love your kids. Not every kid is loved that is your main job.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  3. Paterfamilias.75

    Paterfamilias.75 New Member

    Sep 28, 2011
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    that was my thought too.. I have 2 kids and she is the athlete where the other is the musician. So yes, we have enought activities throughout the week, not to mention school. Like I said, just made me think.. am I the only one that is concerned about burn out or and I just old fashioned. Part of me thinks how many of those kids, that play on multiple teams, will still be playing 5-6 yrs from now? I loved soccer growing up, but I'm not I would have played as long as I did if I was practicing 4 days a week and playing multiple games each weekend.

    Any other thoughts?
     
  4. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    How long they play depends on the coaching they get. By that I only mean does the coach love the game and loves working with kids. Does he wear his love of the game on his sleeve so anyone can see it. That love of game is contagious to his payers. They love the game they will always want to play it even if they are not playing at the highest levels. Those are also going to be future coaches.
     
  5. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    Personally I think that's way to much soccer for 6 years old.

    They need to do other things as well and I don't see a lot of time in there to do that.

    I had my 6 year old in rec (2 days a week - 1 hour per) and club which is an hour away from our home and that is 2 days for practice (1.5 hrs) and 2 games on Sundays. Plus they are in tournaments.

    I pulled her out of one day in rec but last night after club practice she said she wanted to quit rec altogether and just play for her club - they are very strict and I think the kids like the structured environment more so.

    So it looks like she is sticking with club only - but it's one of the best in the nation so 3 days a week is good enough for me.

    For me I worried about not only burning them out but turning them off from the sport from too much play and no social time with kids their age away from soccer - you know on the playground and stuff :D

    They are only a kid once and they will never get that time back.
     
  6. Bird1812

    Bird1812 New Member

    Nov 10, 2004
    Free play at this age is much better for her than is the rigidity of being on a team.
     
  7. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    How do you define "free play"

    Rec at this age is nothing more then recess part II in beehive fashion.

    Looking at u6-u8 in a structured environment is pretty impressive and kids like it.

    But how many are actually doing just that? There are a ton of Academies out there with USSF coaches. Some of these are also called "Advanced Rec". They are good as well IMO.
     
  8. Bird1812

    Bird1812 New Member

    Nov 10, 2004
    Playing with dad, mom, grandparents, brothers or sisters.
     
  9. Mr Martin

    Mr Martin Member+

    Jun 12, 2002
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    6 years old seems much too young to play on two soccer teams. Keeping her active and involved in life is certainly fine. But at this age I'd rather see some variety, and some down time, too (summer or winter off, for example). Sign her up for swimming classes or some other fun, different activity. Swimming, for example, will still train her physically, but maybe in some beneficial, different ways. Cross-training, so to speak.

    The "burn out" worry may or may not be real. I suspect that it really depends on how intensely the sport is "worked" -- if it becomes more work than healthy play and physical challenge -- and will also depend on the personality of each child and the personalities/behavior of the adults involved. I've known some children who (at older ages than 6) were heavily involved in premier-level soccer 12-months per year, traveling all over the state and region. Some of those kids still loved the game in their late teens and went on to play college soccer. But a couple of kids definitely became tired of the rat-race and lost interest. One of the most talented girls in my middle child's age group did get burned out, and to her parents' surprize, recently announced she wasn't interested in playing college soccer (and she definitely had the ability to play Div 2 or Div 3, and maybe lower-level Div 1).

    Burn out is something to be aware of and monitor, but not something to fear.

    For girls entering their teen years, I'd be more worried about excessive sports leading to over-use injuries, especially to the knees. There is a lot of recent literature out there about girls and sports injuries.
     
  10. VolklP19

    VolklP19 Member+

    Jun 23, 2010
    Illinois
    I could not be happier with 2 days of practice, 2 games per week and 2 tourneys that my 6 year old is involved with.

    Get into the right club with the right coaches and there is no need to overload. Again - kids need time to do other things as well at this age.
     
  11. england66

    england66 Member+

    Jan 6, 2004
    dallas, texas
    totally agree with this. She needs to be having fun with the game.Period.
     
  12. This is an old post, but it is a very interesting topic to me so I thought I would revive it. I apologize for the length of the post. My questions: How to predict burn out in young kids? And is it different for different sports?

    For example, in this area of the country, swimming is huge. Kids start competing in meets as young as 3 years old (usually irregularly), and many are competing regularly by age 5. To compete in recreational swimming, the child usually starts by going to 4 or 5 30-45 minutes practices per week all through the summer. Meets are twice a week from late May through early August. When younger, the child takes fall, winter, and spring off, but most kids who are trying to move to a competitive level will swim Fall swim (3-5 days a week practice and meets 2 times a month) and then Spring "clinics" which are usually offered 3-5 days a week.

    In short, kids as young as 6-7 are swimming 10 months out of the year. This usually involves 3-5 days of practice per week (practices usually around one hour), 5 if you want to be competitive. Many are also going to private coaching sessions as well, especially as they reach age 9 and older. Competing in meets averages about 2 times per month year around, although some kids go more often.

    Why so much about swimming? Because if we substituted in "soccer" and "matches" for "swimming" and "meets" there would be no question that this is too much. In fact, there might be a mention of child abuse if I had my daughter in 5 days a week of soccer practice, bi-weekly private coaching sessions, and games every other weekend. But in swim, you rarely hear anyone comment on the amount of practice required, and no one seems concerned about burn-out.

    Why is it more of a concern in soccer but not swim? Or is it just that swim is different than all other sports? Also, on a personal level: what are the warning signs your child is going to "burn out" on a sport? Does anyone have any personal experience? How do you ensure the right level of engagement with a specific sport?
     
  13. keeper dad

    keeper dad Member

    Jun 24, 2011
    Having competed at a very high level through college I have a pretty informed opinion on swimming and often try to relate that to soccer and it never fits very well. Training for swimming is to a large extent all about the yardage and you can not get the yardage without being in the pool every day and for those in the upper half of the spectrum twice a day. I trained at 5:00 each morning and again at 4:00 each afternoon for essentially 10 years (middle school through college) with weight training thrown in as well but prior to that summer was always 2 a day practices from age 10. This was the only way to hit the yardage.

    This is obviously much more than a soccer team is practicing but I doubt this is more than the elite soccer player trains, it is just different. Soccer training does not have to involve a team atmosphere and coach present the way swimming does. Players should be supplementing the "accepted" level of team training through working on their own at home, pick up soccer, etc. I think if you include those activities the hours of work are not that much different, just the structure is different.

    When you go to compare swim meets and soccer it gets a little fuzzier. A soccer game is 60 to 90 minutes of "on" time whereas a swimmer is really only "on" for 10 minutes or less in an entire meet (depending on events) so in reality meets are much less a part of the athletic clock than a soccer game (although for the parents in the stands swim meets take forever).
     

  14. Very good points about training alone vs. in a team for swimming vs. soccer. I think the reason parents my feel compelled to go overboard with soccer is because there is less and less opportunity for kids to get play time on their own -- for example, less opportunity to go outside and catch a pick-up game. So parents start looking for additional structured activities.
     
    Rob55 repped this.
  15. ScottyMU

    ScottyMU Member

    May 1, 2013
    Ohio
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Excellent topic and thanks for reviving. I have three kids that play soccer (U16B, U13G and U9G) and all three have varying levels of participation. The oldest plays HS ball and does little else through the year except some indoor leagues with his pals. The middle one plays for her school team in the fall, indoors on 2 squads in the winter and club in the spring. They both are at an age where they can easily communicate their level of burnout. The youngest is the one that concerns me.

    She grew up watching her older sibs playing and can't seem to get enough of it. We started her in local rec at 6, moved her to travel at 7 and have added a local "premier" club at 9. She plays up to U10 on both squads and does a great job. Her level of soccer knowledge at this age is brilliant. Her soccer year wrapped up Saturday and by our count she played almost 60 games over the past 10 months. Combined with practices, camps and other training efforts, I figure she had a soccer related activity almost every other day all year long. TBH, I don't know if that is a lot by other's standards, but it seemed like it to me. If I had a kid that had every reason to be sick of soccer, she would be the one. However, as her mother and I were playing in an adult open field last night, I looked over and she had laced her boots up and dragged a couple of other kids onto a nearby micro pitch to play.

    I would never discourage her from playing a sport she loves, but trust me when I say that we keep a close eye on the situation. If she continues to progress as a player, soccer can help her open doors in the future, but it won't do her any good if she's done playing at 12.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  16. rhrh

    rhrh Member

    Mar 5, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    I worry more about psychological burnout than physical burnout. An unsupportive coach, that your child is stuck with for 10 months, can mean the end to pursuing soccer which they used to love.

    The only times my son thought about quitting were when he was cut last minute, after tryout season was long over, due to coaching changes and merging with another team, and he had to scramble to find a new team. At no time, even when practicing 3 or more hours per day, or when attending an 8 hour camp then playing in a club game that night, did he want to quit due to any physical strain or boredom. When they are drenched with sweat and smiling, you know it is what they want to do. Not that you want your 9 year old drenched with sweat, but starting around 12 you will expect a lot of physical effort.

    The child is the judge of what is too much (within reason, 20 hours per week for a 9 year old is crazy). At younger ages, say less than 12 years old, find a situation where they have some optional practices or pick up games. Let your child choose if they want to go to soccer or not any particular night, except for required activities. This gets difficult if your child is on more than one team, but when my son did that, the second team was told that he might miss all the practices, and even some games, for his first team. You also have a great chance to teach your child about commitment and balance.

    I don't agree that older kids will be free to talk about burnout. It seems more likely they'll just "forget" to tell you about the school physical, tryouts, or sign-ups, if they want to quit.
     
  17. Rob55

    Rob55 Member

    Nov 20, 2011
    Yes I think burnout or enjoyment depends on many factors as stated. My daughter dreaded going to U14 soccer practices last season and always found excuses to try and get out of them (even though they were fairly easy practices and only 2 nights a week for 1.5 hrs). Didn't care for the coach very much, and she really didn't have many friends on the team except for 2 other girls. Now she is in 9th grade playing on HS JV team and loves soccer again. Practices/games are 5-6 days a week and she absolutely loves it. Its much more intense than U14 rec., but the JV coach is great and she loves hanging out with most all the girls on her team and the varsity players as well.
     
  18. Soccertaxi

    Soccertaxi Member

    Feb 20, 2012
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I think U8-13 you have to keep your kid's best interest in mind. After the kid turns 13, you might want to back away and start to let them start making decisions about where they play and how often. I know, I know, many parents feel that these are the crucial years where you go from a hobby to a real dedicated passion. My point exactly. Let the kid make the decision if this is their passion. Pushing them to practice, play and travel only makes them push back. That leads to rebelling against soccer in general instead of you as the parent.

    Will they make mistakes? Yep! Will they be able to recover? Absolutely. Alex Morgan did not even start competitive soccer until U14. You are not going to miss out on her chance to gain a scholarship or slot on the national team because she decides to play on a lower level team or just school team rather than the Elite Premier Super Duper Travel Club team. The other girls will not leave her behind in development. The sun will come up tomorrow.

    The benefit is she starts to realize all the factors that go into playing for a club and why the sacrifice of time is needed to play at the highest level. Let her chase daisies for a season and she will quickly become bored of the slow soccer and want to get back to the higher level of play. Then it is HER decision and HER passion for the game. You will not be able to hold her back. Seriously, a girl with her mind made up is one dedicated kid.

    If not, then maybe soccer is not her main priority? Maybe school/rec soccer is fine and she would rather spend time in other pursuits? What is the harm? She is still getting exercise, probably excelling and enjoying the game. Isn't that why you put her in the first season? It should always be about enjoying the game.

    To those parents that feel the need to manage their daughter's career and do all the research, extra training and constantly be chasing the best coaches and clubs, is it your dream or hers? A simple question posed for the reason of reflection. A teenage girl has about a million things on her mind. Some have that focus and want to rise to be the best they can be in the game they love. Congrats!! You have one in a million. Most are in it for fun and enjoyment and have as little interest in a scholarship as they do becoming the next President of the United States.
     
  19. Rob55

    Rob55 Member

    Nov 20, 2011
    Very nice write-up and brings things into perspective for many. Some parents with good intentions certain get lost along the way. In defense of many parents though, I think it stems from a situation where at an early age they see their child excel in soccer over other children that initially just sign up for fun and exercise and realize their child has a great talent for the game. Then the parents go "all in" to try to ensure their child reaches maximum potential later on in life with their gift for the sport and doesn't squander opportunity. Whether that opportunity is to possibly be a star player on HS team, a premier club team, D1 college, or National team etc. It's a fine line, but I think that is probably the mindset and situation of a large portion of the parents when they go overboard into pushing soccer onto their child.
     
  20. Soccertaxi

    Soccertaxi Member

    Feb 20, 2012
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Completely agree and admittedly guilty on a few counts. The problem is that parents that try and control the development do not realize they are creating a whole host of other problems down the road. The reality is the kids do not live in a vacuum. They do not play in a lab. There are a whole hosts of outside influences that effect their play. What happens when they do leave home to play at the next level? How do they deal with the outside influences you used to control? Injuries? Conflict? Politics? I have seen very talented kids fold like a cheap table when left to their own decisions. Those little steps of independence they take in their early teens lead to some big steps after high school. Sometimes the hardest part is letting them learn through their mistakes.
     
  21. rhrh

    rhrh Member

    Mar 5, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    We've been lucky that my son has been to ODP camps and other residential camps, including evaluations provided showing he was doing his best though away from his comfort zone. I think any kid that is targeting college let alone the pros should get experience in living away from their parents, for at least a few days.

    We have overridden my son on a few decisions, but in general it was money issues that he was not in a place to understand or have an opinion on yet. We also have watched while he made some dumb/imprudent decisions, and then been pleased to see how he dealt with it. The other thing we override him on is regarding academics; they cannot suffer due to soccer commitments. Nothing p'sses us off more than having other parents tell my son's team that "they're away at a tournament, they should focus on soccer not on homework". If your kid plays soccer in college, they better the heck be able to take care of homework and studying while on a bus or staying away from their dorm...
     
  22. Soccertaxi

    Soccertaxi Member

    Feb 20, 2012
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    #22 Soccertaxi, Oct 19, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2013
    Well said and completely agree. In fact, most of the college coaches we have spoken with also support grades first. I used to work at a D1 Athletic Department and the coach would greet any kid that came up to him with, "You get good grades? I only recruit smart kids." I have seen him say it to kids that were in elementary school to high school seniors on official visits. I think it is paramount these days with scholarship money so limited and competition so fierce for soccer scholarships. Those schools need the kids to have grades to get academic scholarships too. The program will go to work and find the money for your kid if your kid goes to work and gets good grades.

    That is also why we are spending the money and have her in ECNL. By the end of her club commitment, it will be 5-years of national travel soccer. She will be ready physically and have the maturity to balance her academic and athletic priorities. They are called scholar-athletes! I have had several coaches tell me that ECNL and DA are great proving ground for college soccer. She has a long way to go, but we feel she is on the right path.
     
  23. rhrh

    rhrh Member

    Mar 5, 2010
    Club:
    AC Milan
    Yeah, ECNL and academy are great proving grounds for college soccer. Too bad there are other reasons, especially financial and time reasons, that some of the best players never end up in ECNL or USSF academy programs.

    We are looking at D1 and D3 schools for my son because although he has a lot of D1 interest from coaches, his soccer resume doesn't jump out with academy experience. He could play on a poor D1 team with poor academics (he would be a genius compared to the average student there) or a top ten D3 team with great academics. We are waiting on test scores to see about Ivies and top academic D1 schools, but hit top D3 school is tops in his major in the country.
     
  24. Soccertaxi

    Soccertaxi Member

    Feb 20, 2012
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I guess it depends on the DA/ECNL club near you. Our club just made the DA full scholarship so the parents only pay for uniforms, gear and parent travel (if not volunteering). I think they are trying to emulate the European Academy model where players are identified and then developed in a system that does not depend on parental financial support. I think this is brilliant for two reasons:
    1) Takes the parent out of the equation as a vested club member. It is no different than playing Varsity sports in public school. Coaches can make decisions on player performance and potential and really don't have to acknowledge meddlesome parents if they don't want to deal with the drama.
    2) Any kid, regardless of his ability to pay, has a shot of playing on a national DA team. I think this does more to ID and develop true talent in the area than any other program I have ever seen. Think about that. ODP costs money, leagues, camps, showcases and regional tournaments all cost money which could keep a kid from realizing his true potential.

    One other point on the fully subsidized program. The club can and will suspend a player if a parent attempts to influence coaching decisions or becomes unruly at games. The club does not have to consider the financial implications of banning a dues-paying parent. All of the sudden, dads are not so vocal on the sideline and moms aren't so quick to throw a tantrum every time their kid goes down on the field. Now parents are where they should be - sitting in the stands as fans. I like that and think it will go a long way in improving youth soccer.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  25. BigRedNole

    BigRedNole Member

    May 5, 2014
    I am in the same boat. We are not going to play on multiple teams. My daughter is 8 and played a year up in the development academy this past year. She is beyond rec in ability and there is nothing else available other than development academy. We supplemented that training with one extra practice per week with an indoor team.

    Being new to soccer and relying on input from her primary league, other credible parents, and what I have found online is to insure she is having fun at all times. As long as it is fun, the chances for burnout lowers. We have one main rule though: she cannot choose to skip a supplemental practice, but she can't skip her academy practice. Illness or injury is a different story. Outside of practices, we avoid practicing or playing soccer except for juggling practice. If she asks to practice, we will.

    I read an article and will try to find it. It was about an ER doctor explaining that your child is not going to college free and not going pro. The odds are drastically stacked against your child.

    http://www.nuvo.net/GuestVoices/archives/2014/03/18/your-kid-and-my-kid-are-not-playing-in-the-pros
     

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