Bundesliga and the rest: Domestic and European competition discussion

more interested to see if Wagner can steer the ship for Schalke or if he ends up bombing and another bad move made by Schalke.

as for the player Mckennie, nothing wow, he's an ok player that really needs to stop playing all over the field and stick to one position. Even though he's supposed to be a CM, kid plays more like an AM. Attacking way too much and leaving tons of space in the midfield, too many gaps.

 

Kicker summarizes Bayern's biggest problem in the transfer window at the image of the Hazard brothers: players available are either too expensive (eg: Eden) or not good enough (eg: Thorgan). pic.twitter.com/JGaavnYyQK

— Bayern & Germany (@iMiaSanMia) June 30, 2019

Thorgan Hazard scores a lot of PKs, which inflates his numbers.

so if that's the case, why not just promote from within..............................................................

 

its funny how we discussed here how foreign coaches like to bring in players from their home leagues which is true and explains all these Swiss, Austrian players.

but now it seems like German coaches who coached abroad and returning to Germany are also bringing foreign players. I mean how many players has Wagner been linked from England. And look at this.

Burnley have rejected a loan offer from German club Schalke for defender Ben Gibson. (Source: Sky Sports) pic.twitter.com/54xU2qbLd7

— Transfer News Live (@DeadlineDayLive) July 1, 2019

seriously pathetic is Schalke going to be a feeder club going forward?I'm starting to hope Wagner bombs and gets fired.

or Rose and his Austrian Bundesliga players and all the Frenchies. I mean this dude Rose, started as a youth coach at RB Salzburg, even won the YL with that club. Was Hoping he would try to integrate but nope it's all buy buy buy. We are seeing more and more ex youth coaches feel the pressure of pro football and integrate less and less. That's what happened with Nagelsmann at Hoff and I have my doubts that he'll fix RB Leipzig's youth promotions from within massive issue.

 

it's sad, pathetic or both, that 1BL really is nothing but a dev league.

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after playing only 57 1BL games (less than 2 season's worth of games) and he's already out. We are seeing more and more foreign players who barely last in Germany and then dump the league just to play elsewhere. Shows that these players have 0 real interest in the league.

Jovic only lasted 2 season and 54 games in 1BL, lol.

or losers like Pavard who used Stuttgart to get a big club opportunity like Diallo (seems headed out of Dortmund, lol) as well. I mean Pavard wanted to ditch Stuttgart during their relegation battle, what an A-Hole. I really don't want him at Bayern. And the funny thing he's wasn't even Stuttgart's best defender last season, Kabak and Kempf were better, LMAO.

just read new players when they sign to 1BL clubs, it's all about oh this league is good to allow chances to young players, a chance to play CL etc. Nothing they say is real interest in the league, it's mostly user mentality.

that Spaniard 00 RB, not good enough to breakthrough Barcelona but signs a 5 year contract at Dortmund. Dortmund will fastrack his pro career as well, that is the only draw to the league. You can expect him to not last long because anyone who does well will be gone soon enough. Sancho is also a user and Dortmund is nothing but a selling club. Sancho ain't staying for long before he ditches back to go to EPL.

between
-these days nothing but a dev league for the players of the world
-any real talent ditches the league
-a shit ton of trash players........like a ton and some others very average players.
-inexperienced youth players and a lot of them once again don't and won't last in the league. You won't make any real star players because they will ditch.

how does anyone expect 1BL to really compete in Europe?

oh and let's not forget the feeder club mentality from these clubs. Dortmund already has an RB on loan from Spain Hakimi who outside of goals/assists was not that impressive last season. That also won't help German clubs in Europe as you have to plan new every other season because players won't last.

 

let's see if he has more success than that massive massive Spanish flop 97 RB Maffeo who played for Stuttgart,lol. Not only did he suck real bad but he was unprofessional too. Where are all those hypocrite German head honchos who bashed German players and their mentality yet the league is filled with unprofessional foreign players. Rangnick just keep signing Frenchies where your whole Frenchie contingent are unprofessional players. Which shows how these clubs don't give a shit about German players and always excuses.

I do think it's interesting that Dortmund signed a Spanish RB that has been irrelevant to Spain since his U17 days and hasn't played for Spanish youth in over a year now. I mean these clubs are usually more interested in regular NT players.

although I hope Morey busts at Dortmund, can't stand Spain or France. They already export a shit ton of players but lets continue weakening our NT whether youth or senior. Let's go RB 03-Semic keep progressing well and show your worth in a few years. One of the few 03s (along with Lutke-Frie and Gencoglu) who was able to breakthrough the 02s age group of Dortmund U17, all 3 playing above their age groups and so far all 3 also played well for Germany Youth NT.

 

I don't know where your high expectations come from. Considering the 50+1 rule and EPL's gigantic TV rights deals, there are probably very few people who expect 1BL to really compete in Europe. Bayern aside, German clubs have been unable to retain their star players for a very very long time. Certainly in this post Bosman ruling era, it's almost impossible. Dortmund have a pretty big revenue these days and could potentially (in 5-10 years) be able to retain their superstars but there is no hope for the rest of the BL clubs in the short term.
I suggest you adjust your expectations so that you suffer less from frustration/disappointment.

 

where do you see frustration. I'm just pointing things out.

for me I care more about min at least staying top 4 in Europe other than that I actually don't expect any German club to win any European trophies anytime soon. I'm talking about being competitive, Dortmund and Bayern were jokes in Europe last season.

and none of what you wrote stopped a 2 German clubs CL final a few years ago mostly made of domestic players as well.

I actually root for 50+1, last thing German football needs is becoming EPL 2.0 and even less focus on domestic players.

Dortmund retaining players? All they do is sell they are a dev club and then selling one. Auba, Dembele, Pulisic, etc none lasted that long.

You obviously also miss out that the real issue is that MINNOW LEAGUES are performing better in Europe than German clubs that's a big issue comes back to the league is full of trash players and coaches who make blunders in Europe as well being beaten by small leagues.

 

Constantly insulting foreign players, the transfer policies of German clubs, BL coaches, RB Leipzig, Eintracht Frankfurt, the DFB,etc sounded like frustration to me. I got the wrong idea then. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

if a player is trash he's trash, those how I see it. A lot of the league is trash. Very low standards in Germany. And your going to make a fuss about transfer policies of 1BL when like 95% of this thread is about transfers. And who cares about foreign players anyways, this is the German NT boards. If they perform good for them if they bomb who cares and it would be a chance for a German player. I have 0 invested interest in their dev.

tell me where does it say in the forum rules that one has to be nice about the topic at hand? Nowhere.

don't see what's the problem with insulting Frankfurt, DFB and RB Leipzig. DFB is a joke from top to bottom and has been for years. Been complaining about dfb way before the 2018 implosion. Recall people here got annoyed with me for trashing Germany and dfb even after winning CC and U21 Euro in 2017 and look what happened after.And been trashing RB and Frankfurt for years now anyways. No one in Germany likes RB Leipzig anyways. If you want to support 2 clubs that does squat for Germany than to each their own.

not sure why your bothered. If you don't agree you don't agree, that's perfectly fine.

 

I guess I should congratulate the huge transfer busts over the years of Schalke (club management is a joke there). How many players left for free? lol. Or Stuttgart spending like $60+M on foreign youth kids who almost all bombed outside of Kabak, who only came in Winter. Not only that by I called them out on those purchases last Summer too. I mean really they expected to survive 1BL spending fortunes on inexperienced kids? They had relegation coming. During the season, all of those players were openly criticized by Stuttgart management and President as well.

 

I am not bothered. I've come to grips with the fact that the BL is a development league. I just wanted you to be less disappointed/frustrated but if you are fine then perfect.

You criticize coaches, clubs, foreigners but you almost never criticize German players for their individual performances. I wanted to know is there a reason for that? You never say, "a German talent is not good enough" or ''he will never make it" and you don't point out their weaknesses. I thought this might be helpful for the readers of this forum. This way they can get a better idea of their potential.

 

it has only became a dev league because the league allowed it to become such over the recent years. This league is a now a follower not a leader. One club does something everyone copies. Embarrassing and pathetic, that the country with a vast history of success is now nothing but a dev league.

I've also called out German players like Mustafi and Draxler as being trash and not belonging to the NT. Still hope they can do better but never been impressed by either.

Why would I criticize German players when they are perfect machines?
I'm pretty sure I criticized a ton of German players in youth thread over the years for their performances. But for German players I tend to be more critical towards them when they wear the NT jersey, higher expectations/standards. Although plenty of players I don't rate and don't expect them to really make it as pros or that could end up being career 2BL players.

 

The growing presence of Spanish footballers at my club pisses me off, especially given my well documented hate of all things Spanish football related.

 

I understand your point, seriously. That being said, I'm with Ger90 in this regard. For me, the situation of German players in bundesliga is worrying. But I can understand if anyone standing on the other side. Be that as it may, allow me to chip in some of my stances regarding the topic.

1. I don't really mind if bundesliga achievement in European competition below Spain and Italy (I'm not mentioning EPL cause I hate it, case close). That is okay, as long as our NT perform well. The thing is, you may have underachieving club but with successful NT if you export lots of players to top European clubs. They could play in the highest level of competition by playing outside Bundesliga, I have no problem with it.

But the reality presently, bundesliga club absorbing many foreign players while on the other hand, we don't have lots of players playing in top La Liga, EPL (there I said it...) or Serie A clubs. Take France for example. When was the last time French club win European competition? if my memory serve me right, 1 League as bad as bundesliga these past 2 decades? Or we might even better. Nonetheless, they have outrageous talent pool for their NT, since their players play all across top European clubs.

2. I don't expect Bundesliga to top La Liga clubs achievement in club competition. But for god's sake, can we at least better than Dutch, Ukrainian, Russian, Portugal, Turkish clubs? Apart from Bayern, when was the last time German club win Europe (previously UEFA) cup? Last time, Schalke in 1997. That was more than 20 years ago. For country with economical prowess as Germany, this is just plain embarrasing.

 

point #1, fact is France and the Dutch are dev leagues who benefit their domestic players. 1BL does not as it's more and more of an International dev league and less and less focus on domestic. That's why it's worse for us.

point #2 is a huge issue even if you ignore German players issue and look at the current clubs. We can't even compete vs minnow leagues and it's getting worse over the years. RB Leipzig and other German clubs bombing vs Turkish clubs lol. And the list goes on and on. I'm pretty sure we documented the embarrassments during this season over the years in this thread. And numerous people noticed it too. Even dfb, guys like Low/Bierhoff seem embarrassed about how shit German clubs are in Europe.

 

Very well written...exactly my feeling too

 

I actually think Dortmund have recruited pretty well this summer, and at least they have signed 3 German players. Good that Schulz will be playing CL for a better team this year.

Think both Dortmund and Bayern should aim to make 1/4 finals CL.

I don't like Bayern's business so much, more then €100m spent on two average French defenders.

 

Pavard is vastly overrated from not-so-little of what I saw in bundesliga and WC. He scored wonderful goal in WC yes, but that's not a real sign of good defender. His defending skill still leave a lot to desired, again in my opinion.

But Lucas Hernandez really good from what I saw in WC. Is he worth that high given his fragile knee is another thing however.

 

Even with this huge influx of foreigners in the Bundesliga, the German national team should be fine. I am not worried. With the billions of euros invested in youth academies, the large population, the poor immigrants hungry for success, the introduction of futsal in the youth development curriculum and the reform(increase of individuality), the national team will never run out of top class players. It will always have individuals good enough to challenge for the big trophies. It will be up to the coach to get the best out of them. I think it's countries such as Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Greece who should be really worried about the future. Ageing population, low fertility rate, mass emigration, no more young people left, no money,etc.


As for the German clubs getting regularly eliminated by clubs from weaker leagues, I agree it shouldn't happen that often. It's often down to poor coaching. Not being pragmatic/flexible enough. Unfortunately good coaches don't grow on trees. It sucks but we are used to it by now. After so many disappointments, you become indifferent.

 

even a coach like Nagelsmann was very stupid in Europe last season, his words at the time post match showed that as well. Had a complete disinterest in defending, lol. Kovac/Favre are both bum coaches.

as for Bayern and Dortmund, agreed so far, Dortmund has had better transfer and more manageable money wise. Bayern spending over $100M for 2 meh Frenchies is a joke. Now it seems like no one wants to join the club and every player they are interested in doesn't want to go. Looks like Bayern is losing its clout.

maybe they should just consider youth promotion in this case.

 

but there is a growing trend, clubs are just buying foreign young players from minnow leagues with pro experience or more and more French/Spanish/English instead of integrating their own players. You sign a players for millions there is no competition they are ahead. Worse is when clubs buy a foreign player for millions and they do have promising player in the Academy,sometimes could be like 1-2 years younger. They don't spend millions on short term contract these are long term contracts.

but these clubs seem obsessed with players having to play U19 to the last possible second and winning U19 trophies. Even an ex player (forget his name) said the same, instead of dev players they focus more on U19 trophies. Where are the priorities?

 

spending billions on Academy when they just end up buying players from elsewhere. LOL at these clubs.

I also think it makes little sense that the training at these clubs all follow the dfb. Why does it have to follow the dfb? Clubs are the ones who complain about the players yet they are the ones training them to play at their own clubs. All this complaints about lack of individuality and 1v1 (although there are players who have individuality and 1v1) and about how it's so systematic. Yet why did all the clubs in Germany agree to play like that??? I always though systematic was stupid and would never want to play like that.

even Ballack criticized how dfb has way too much control over training when it's clubs doing everything for their future.

I believe our Dutch poster, @feyenoordsoccerfan stated that Eredivisie clubs do what they want in terms of player dev.

 

so Spaniard Omar Mascarell who never impressed at Frankfurt than bought by $10+M by Schalke and bombed completely there (called it he would bomb in Schalke and another shit transfer from Schalke) and now Bremen want him, lol with these German clubs and recycling mediocre players.

another Spanish flop, Mainz's Jose Rodriguez is headed out of the club.

have yet to be really impressed by a Spaniard playing in Germany. Even the 4 that were/are at Bayern, Thiago for one is always injured. Alonso seemed past it, Bernat was never good, Martinez is okay player nothing wow.