Bundesliga and the rest: Domestic and European competition discussion

Discussion in 'Germany: National Teams' started by Epitome990, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Let's face it majority of BL clubs competing in Europe this year suck. Plain and simple. Freiburg were a huge disappointment before it even began. And wtf are Hertha doing each year. I can see them losing to Brondby as they have Zorniger who knows the league and had an inspired Hany Mukhtar guiding them. But now they embarrass themselves to a Swedish village.

    At least bring back the likes of Augsburg who made it into the KO stages, and took Liverpool to a close match up despite having like 1/1000th of their budget. Schalke also were decent last year in Europa going into the quarterfinals. Dortmund will most likely sink into the EL this campaign. Should be a more management tournament for them tbh.
     
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  2. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Schalke pissed me off losing to 10 men Ajax, who scored 2 goals while being 10 men. How pathetic was that?:rolleyes:

    from the trio of EL, Hoff might be the only hope and from CL, given an easier group, Bayern. RB seems to either be EL or out at this rate. They can't seem to cope with Europe.
     
  3. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    speak of the devil, Hoff score in the 2nd minute, assist by Uth!
    Let's hope for 1 win this matchday!
     
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  4. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    RBL are too young of a club. From a complete lack of tradition standpoint and also in terms of their players. Their starting lineup's average age must be like 23 or 24. In order to compete in Europe you need some more veteran leaders who know what they're doing. And not be afraid to be dirt bags in order to win.

    Köln are actually pretty embarrassing. They took the big payday from selling Modeste. But now they can't get anything right. In the league and Europe. They got ripped off by Mainz big time for buying Cordoba who sucks for what I believe is their new club record fee for new signing.
     
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  5. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    for RB, I think their bench is too mediocre to make a difference, if the XI is ineffective, the bench won't do much themselves. The coach isn't that good. His tactics that worked last season are not working neither in the league nor Europe. One trick pony.

    Koln are in dire need of a striker, this whole season no striker of theirs has scored a single goal. LOL.
    Their club, is like Matthaus said, mismanaged like too many other German clubs.

    in the end I think the problem is that most German teams just aren't good enough for Europe. Koln, Freiburg and tons of others are just lacking.
     
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  6. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Ideally, clubs like Leverkusen, Schalke, and Gladbach need to be stable enough to sustain a spot in the Top 5 and 6 on a constant basis each season. They at least more financial strength but need to put together consistency.

    The problem with smaller clubs after a Cinderella story season, going to Europe is that they sell all their best players before the tournament begins. And they scramble to build a new core. Freiburg lost Philipp and Grifo. Mainz in the past had similar experiences. They lost Holtby and Schurrle during their first attempt, and it happened a few years later too.
     
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  7. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    it's one reason why Hoff aren't doing better, losing players like Sule/Rudy to Bayern and Toljan to Dortmund. Those 2 could have been huge in their CL Qualifiers vs Liverpool. Having to replace 3 regulars and expect the replacements to perform is not easy.
     
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  8. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Lots of rumors saying that Nagelsmann is being linked with Bayern in the future of course. But IMO, I certainly that hope he remains with Hoffenheim for at least 2-3 more years. Not only because they'll be a stronger presence. But also because it's important for growing as coach to not get ahead of yourself too soon.

    He needs more experience, and learning at an environment where the pressure and expectations can be more manageable. Can only hope with the likes of Hansi Flick joining their leadership team, that they can forge together a more cohesive club plan moving forward.
     
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  9. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I read the plans is Tuchel for now (short term) and then years later go for Nagelsmann (long term) also gives him more time.

    it's funny how everyone wants Nagelsmann, even Low said he sees him as his successor.
     
  10. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    #10 Epitome990, Sep 28, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
    The only thing that Hertha have going for them is that the other "larger" club in their group, Bilbao are also sucking. As they lost to Zorya Luhansk today. So the chances are relatively even, but they can't be messing up anymore. Especially when they get on their own home matches.

    It looks grimmer for Koln as they've twice in a row in deserving fashion. Also failed to at least pick up a point at home today. And they look just as bad in the BL. Unless they turn things around quickly, I can't see them digging their out of this hole.

    I actually enjoy watching Europa more because it's more competitive and entertaining. So even the little guys play with a David and Goliath chip on their shoulder and give it their all. CL honestly is very predictable and all about the big money clubs nowadays.
     
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  11. Alex C

    Alex C Member

    Oct 27, 2015
    Chatham
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Lol about Schalke, I felt exactly the same about that match. Can only imagine how their fans felt. It was pathetic.

    In the EL I actually thought all 3 had ok groups, but with Koln being toothless and Hertha losing to a Swedish village I agree Hoffenheim are now the best chance, despite being weakened. They need a win today though.
     
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  12. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    and Ludogorets ties Hoff 1-1. On the + news front, their 2 other group rivals are also tied.
     
  13. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Hoffenheim sucks. They have no fans, don't care about this game, and don't deserve to win.
     
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  14. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    shesh we are heading for 6/6 defeats....:rolleyes:

    it's even worse that Hoff who are 2nd in the league is losing to a Bulgarian team....:thumbsdown:
     
  15. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Hoffenheim are dealing with a lot of injuries, but they didn't respect the opponent. Not gonna win with putting on a bunch of kids.
     
  16. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Shit game, but not the most surprising since half the squad are rookies with no experience. Hoffenheim basically can't lose anymore games or else they're done.
     
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  17. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    so EL=all Germans lost both games with 0 points and all 3 at the bottom of their groups.
     
  18. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
  19. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    As much as I like Nagelsmann for the future, he isn't ready for Bayern yet. The guy is barely 30 years old. He needs to learn to deal with this shit first.
     
  20. Alex C

    Alex C Member

    Oct 27, 2015
    Chatham
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Hertha have 1 point. ;)

    But I agree results have been pathetic so far.

    BL teams in Europe this season have between them: played 12 won 1 drawn 2 lost 9.
     
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  21. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    it's something Low has been saying for ages.

    That players proving themselves in Leagues is not good enough, to develop and be better and win WCs and EC. You need players who perform and are difference makers in Europe like EL and CL.

    this season we have none of that and this being a World Cup year. It at least helps that the German team still has experienced vets to help out.
     
  22. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    Guess that explains why Hertha players like Plattenhardt are getting ignored by Jogi. They haven't accomplished anything outside the BL. Although tbf, Weiser and Stark (and Selke) played well with the U21s when they won the Euros. It took a while for Stindl to finally get called up. And it more or less coincided with the time when Gladbach made it to Europe.

    On a different note, the other bias is of course selecting players who are playing abroad. Özil, Khedira, Kroos, Rüdiger, Mustafi, ter Stegen, Draxler, and Emre Can, etc. Even at times where it's debatable whether they deserve or it. It does seem like Jogi prefers that player perspective of playing outside the BL though.
     
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  23. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Stindl only made the CC because of his CL and EL performances otherwise Low would never have bothered with him. Which is sad because he's a good player and is an important player in the CC win. Also because he rested the regulars, I don't think he would ever have been called up if it was for the EC or WC. Now that he proved himself he has some creds.

    from that list, usually Ozil, Khedira, Kroos, Ter Stegen deserve to be called up. Sure Ozil for example might not always play well for Arsenal but he does do well for Germany. The others are the ones who's call up are iffy and I think is linked with Low's known player favoritism.

    As for players abroad, seems likely having to do with a different experience and different playing styles. Serie A, Bundesliga, La Liga, PL don't play the same way. This is useful for tournaments, having players with different strength and flexibility.

    of course not always but throughout history when German clubs do well in Europe it usually translates to success in NT. And the more German players play in those success the more likely it's a huge boast. Look at WC14, more than half the starting XI were Bayern players. who had the year before won the CL and made 3 finals in 4 years. Some were ex-Bayern like Podolski and Klose and tons of other players with Dortmund who themselves had success. All these players play regularly together in club.

    it also has to do with World class players/elite who play in the best clubs in Europe like Ronaldo, Messi etc. There are no players like them in the German league. Only in CL, do you get a chance to face off against those type of players. Which is huge experience when it comes to EC or WCs. That's one thing Low talked about as to why the League (German) is not enough.
     
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  24. Epitome990

    Epitome990 Member+

    Jun 27, 2013
    Club:
    SV Werder Bremen
    The one of the other major changes in the football world in recent years. The growth of super teams in the big money leagues. The EPL, Real/Barca/Atletico in La Liga, and now Serie A is beefing up with all these new Asian owners.

    The moment when a player in the Bundesliga becomes world class, they will become an automatic transfer target. And clubs receive offers they simply cannot refuse. Just like how Dortmund sold Dembele, Wolfsburg-De Bruyne, and Schalke-Sane for club record breaking amounts of money. But to regenerate a player with similar quality is not easy. Leipzig are already selling Keita to Liverpool next summer. While the way Bayern lost Kroos to Real was shameful. Even Köln selling Modeste to China easily looks like a regret right now. They should have at least brought back Podolski. Somehow who knows how to fight for his city. Instead of their current group of schmucks.
     
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  25. Ger90

    Ger90 Member+

    May 13, 2016
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    you forgot PSG, with Neymar, Mbappe and spending what hundreds of Millions on these players. Then look at the Bundesliga who rarely go beyond 40 M for any player. These Asian countries are making football in Europe more globalization than it ever used to be, it's all about money and stars now.

    I'm not too fond of German players leaving Germany especially when too young. If they don't work out it could ruin the careers. As these clubs only care about results rather than the players.

    It's even worse, the more you keep up with German youth news/rumors the more you read at how the La Liga, Serie A and PL are trying to go cheap so they are trying to take German talent when they are still young. Going after or more like trying to snare all the future stars/huge potential players while they still play in Academies and youth levels.

    Koln loaning out Modeste makes little sense, so you essentially let him go for all that money and then not buy good players as replacement. All of their strikers are mediocre. Mediocrity is another problem with the league, there are too many players in the Bundesliga that aren't good but they happen to be cheap so they are bought.
     
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