Buffalo/Rochester/Upstate NY

Abby said at the Freedom season ticket holders' event that she wasn't particularly interested in moving, and she didn't like the idea of a WPS franchise depending on her for its success - what happens if she gets injured, for example?

 

the article mentioned the expansion draft for player soff other teams but will there be an international draft? There was not a mention of it.

 

The purpose of last year's international draft was to divvy up the rights to available players between Atlanta and Philly. If there's just one expansion team, they can sign whomever they want - there's no need for a draft.

 

I just meant that would we actually see who they get the rights too.

 

For my money (not that any is on the line), I'd really like to have Kelly Parker and Vero Bouquete back in the Flash lineup. Something tells me that the current roster, with a few additions, will compete well in WPS. If I read the current rosters correctly, it looks like most teams are carrying 4-6 internationals, which is in-line with what the Flash were carrying last year.

I don't see Abby coming back home specifically to play for the Flash because they're in her back yard. And somehow I don't believe that Washington will let her go so easy. I'm not thinking that Chicago and Sky Blue will let Vero and Kelly go so easily either. I still think that getting both of those players back will make marketing the team to the Western NY area much better, since there is some familiarity there already.

Whatever happens, it's going to get interesting in the next couple of weeks. I'm just glad this part is over. Looking forward to April....

Aaron

 

I though Abby was free agent? Or was that just rumor? Washington may have no say.

 

I think that Washington will make a strong push for her - they might not have a say, but I wouldn't think that Abby would come back to WNY to become the face of a new franchise. That's all I was getting at....

 

Never crossed my mind to be honest

 

Oct. 5 or 6 will be the press conferences. I am pretty sure the name has already been settled upon, but they are just waiting to line up all personnel before announcing everything. Share your thoughts on the the name here as well: http://equalizersoccer.com/webpages/blog.aspx?postid=ba410d65-7c48-4e78-9888-c3848e6d81f6

 

The team would just have to recuit and claim the rights to an Int'l player not already claimed by another team.


PS - I suspect that Buffalo went into this with a good idea where they stand with Abby, either way.

 

Pretty familiar with WNY and southern Ontario and let's be clear - the only 'market' Sahlen gives a damn about is a market of one: Alexandra Sahlen, the middling talent who's spot on the squad is guaranteed by familial connections. Once her playing career is complete, you have to wonder whether the Sahlen clan will continue to support a team.

With LA folding unexpectedly, and St. Louis pulling the plug mid-season, and a commissioner resigning, this expansion should be seen as a desperate move by WPS to take advantage of any ownership interest that will support a team even when ticket receipts and sponsorships can't pay the bills. Again, that investment may be limited in duration to the playing career of one particular player.

Lastly, the future of professional sports in WNY will likely change pretty dramatically when the owner of the Bills (82 year old Ralph Wilson) passes. The expectation is that a new owner will not be able to make a profit in WNY, and most assume the future of that franchise will not be in the region.

The likelihood of such a development creating increased interest in a local WPS franchise is modest, at best.

 

Mr. Sahlen has been committed to putting a WPS franchise bid in for a long time. Granted, it's true that Alex and Aaran are both big parts of that equation, but Mr. Sahlen has also done a lot more for soccer in the WNY area beyond the involvement of his daughter. Yes, I can agree that it's easy to make those types of claims, and for all I know, they might have some truth to them. But I know that Mr. Sahlen didn't go into this decision lightly - and if he didn't think that it would work for this area, for Alex's benefit or not, the management team wouldn't have gone through with it.

For all we know, Alex may not be a part of the team on the field at the WPS level. It may or may not happen....but whether it does is besides the point. The truth is that there is someone who wanted to bring the highest level of women's pro soccer to the Buffalo/Rochester area, and they're committed to doing just that, whether or not there appears to be some nepotism involved. Let's just enjoy it for what it's worth......

Aaron

 

The comments left for that article say it all!

 

It's neither. It's a concern that the Sahlen interest may be temporary and tied to the aspirations of a family member. The suggestion that the family is somehow interested in soccer beyond Alex's involvement is speculative, at best. Most people I'm speaking with in the area are worried that the investment in WPS is similar to the temporary investment of many soccer parents, just extended well beyond the youth/club ranks.

We all want it to work, both for the sport and the area, but the optimism and perhaps enthusiasm I'm hearing in this forum is not shared nearly as broadly on the ground with those in the WNY soccer community.

Admittedly, the concern might be a reflection of the cynicism throughout the region towards owners of sports franchises (Wilson, Rich and the Bisons, Rigas and the Sabres, Golisano and the Sabres, Jeremy Jacobs and nothing in WNY, etc.). The only difference here is that we actually know the Sahlen clan pretty well and experience tells us that their investments often seem to have some overreaching strings attached.

 

We moved to Lewiston (just north of NF, home of Niagara U.) from the UK when I was 4, and I played and coached soccer until I went away to college. I continued to coach while away at school and, when I returned to the area to do my Masters at UB, I resumed my work with my former club. Then I left to do my Doctorate. Visit WNY often, but haven't lived there since, although I remain pretty well connected to the soccer scene through my father and sisters.

FakeSigi is right insofar as saying that local ownership is the way to go for a league of the size and scope of WPS. And I think small to medium-sized markets are generally untapped opportunities for the league. (MLS should be looking into it, too, IMO.)

But FakeSigi's argument about the Sahlens goes wildly astray, primarily because he googles way too much and tries to make spurious relationships sound legitimate.

He suggests that a WPS franchise will somehow help market what is, in essence, three products - hot dogs, turkey cold cuts, and ham cold cuts. That's absolutely ridiculous on every level. WPS doesn't really have a huge market and, while I can see a 12 year old begging her parents for some Puma boots, I don't see her accompanying the folks to the supermarket and begging for some Sahlen's ham for lunch this week. And, even if it did increase interest in ham, turkey, and hot dogs, how much smoked meat will they have to sell to rationalize the expense of the franchise?

Then FakeSigi uses a Grand Am sponsorship by Sahlens as evidence for the marketing argument. I don't have a background in marketing, but if one of my people suggested I sponsor a third tier motorsport series to promote my cold cuts and hot dogs, I'd fire the dolt. The sponsorship is likely more a reflection of the fact the Watkins Glen (home for a major Grand Am event) is about 20 minutes up the road from Elmira, NY - the long term home of the Sahlen clan. It is, in essence, an expensive hobby for papa Sahlen - one that he can drop at any time. I think we all hope that the interest in soccer is more than an expensive hobby.

(Let's not even get into his drawing parallels between a regional, family-owned meat packing company and a wealthy, far-reaching, global brand like Red Bull. That's just moronic.)

One of the fears amongst the soccer geeks in WNY is that the franchise is less a commitment to soccer, and more a way to keep his daughter and son-in-law employed in their hobby. I question FakeSigi's analysis when he doesn't even attempts to lend a critical eye to the fact that the coach is married to a player who also happens to be the daughter of the cash source for the franchise, and who also happens to be the president of the franchise. Sounds awfully 'rec league-esque.' Could it work? Sure. But there are far many more ways that it can become an utter mess...

And then FakeSigi tries to make the structure of the current club sound solid by quoting the player/daughter of the owner/president/wife of the coach - as if her assessment of the coach would somehow be objective. (He then loses even more credibility when claims that the coach's bio is 'awesome' - which it's not. It's OK - about as good as you can expect from a journeyman Kiwi, but it's certainly not 'awesome.')

Then there are suggestions that sponsoring the franchise is an extension of other investments in WNY, with Sahlen's Sports Park being a prime example. Just to give some perspective here - SSP is located in Elmira, 2.5 hours from Buffalo, 3 hours from Niagara, and 2 hours from Rochester and Syracuse. (It's as close to Penn State as it is to University at Buffalo!) In other words, SSP is barely on the radar for the majority of the population that comprises WNY. Well, unless you're in an indoor league but, even then, given WNY winters, driving across the Southern Tier to Elmira for a match is a pretty foolhardy decision. In other words, SSP is not a particularly convincing illustration of the Sahlen family's support of anything in WNY.

He concludes with:
"But knowing what I do about the Sahlen racing interest and their soccer background gives me reassurance that they're as legit as they can be, and I think this owner group will be an overall positive for the league."
The ability to do some web-searches and read the results barely qualifies as 'knowing' anything and, with the evidence he offers, most would be hesitant to make the same conclusions. His evidence and argumentation are weak, at best. And if the arguments he cites for legitimacy are the same standards WPS has, then the league is on weaker footing than any of us could have anticipated.


For those who look at this franchise from the perspective of wanting WPS to pan out, I think there is desire to be enthusiastic and to see this as an opportunity - I honor, respect, and appreciate that.

But for those for whom this is about the local community and the local soccer community, it's personal. They want it to work, too, more than folks from outside this area might anticipate. But the local hesitation is well-founded, and there are many more questions and concerns than there are answers and assurances.

FakeSigi certainly fails to address any them.

(And, for the record, Sahlen's dogs really are that good.)

 

Sorry Cody, but you're way off-base on at least one not-so-small fact.....

While it sounds like you know a lot about the area and the region, your above assertion is incorrect. The Sahlen clan is out of, and Sahlen's Sports Park is in Elma NY, which is about 20 minutes outside of Downtown Buffalo, and not Elmira NY as you claim. I'm a USSF referee who works at the facility, and I can tell you that the Buffalo area soccer community is well aware of SSP. It is nowhere near Watkins Glen, Penn State or the Southern Tier. The facility is well used for soccer and other sports as well, so it is nowhere near as remote or insignificant as you claim it to be.

As it was mentioned previously, it sounds more like you have an axe to grind than anything else. You're entitled to your opinion (which I won't argue with), but before you claim to know so much about the Western NY market, you need to get some of the facts straight.......you make some legitimate counterpoints to the ownership group and their supposed motives for a WPS bid, but for this lifetime Buffalonian who has been involved in the local soccer community for some time at all levels, most of your assertions come off as biased.

Aaron

 

Holy ridiculously idiotic mistake, Batman! Yeah - not so small indeed. I stand corrected, and humbly so. Having not lived in the area for about 7 years will lead to some stupid mistakes, I regret; I was never terribly familiar with the geography of Erie County - follow the directions to the game in Clarence, OP, etc. (or to the Galleria) but with little knowledge of where the hell I really was.

However, I was asked what I felt about FakeSigi's post, which was indeed asinine. Have you read it? If not, you should. And if you have, I'm floored that you don't agree with me. I certainly made myself look like a bleeding idiot in my own right, granted, but I am not sure how applying a critical eye to a weak argument makes someone biased. I have no axe to grind - I have no horse in the race; I didn't apply for a WPS or W-League franchise, or compete against a team with Alex, or work for Redlinski's, or apply for a coaching position with the Flash, etc.

The issue here is one of being willing to ask tough questions and analyze an unexpected situation given what people perceive to be the facts. That is, unless being unbiased means buying into whatever arguments a googling blogger can make.

And like I said, count me amongst those who want the franchise to succeed. At the same time, count me amongst those who are hesitating to be too enthusiastic just yet.

 

I did read FakeSigi's post, and if nothing else, I took it as a "tongue in cheek" way to look at the situation. The fact that Team Sahlen is taking a unique approach to marketing their sports ventures doesn't necessarily indicate that they're as off-base as they would look. The fact that Sahlen's has a very large presence in the WNY area itself allows them to go in different directions to market their products. The name Sahlens in this area practically sells itself - so, without the need for heavy investment in advertising for their products, they can go with "non-conventional" methods to expand their brand. So, while I can't say that the arguement on either side is weak or strong, what I can see is the desire to put forth the best product possible - whether that is processed meats, auto racing or women's soccer.

Like I said before, I could easily see how people could look at the nepotism aspect of this situation and have some serious concerns about the outcome. With that said, there's no explict indication that this has to do only with Alex and Aaran alone. Mr Sahlen was out at every Flash game this year to assess how things went on all aspects of the game presentation and operations. If anything else, you might want to look at the last 2 years as a "market analysis / development" effort to assess how the Buffalo area would take to having a pro woman's team. The feedback was very positive, despite the fact that there was little promotion / advertising to bring in a perspective fan base. All of this was done in a calculated manner - something that might get overlooked by most people who are not in the area. I only happen to know most of this because of my connections to the local soccer community, and to the SSP facility staff.

I think that, on it's face, the FakeSigi blog could be taken the wrong way. With that said, if you look at the main points he's making, there are some pointed facts that could get overlooked - there's a strong ownership group who's coming out of seemingly nowhere with the gumption to make a go of it in a league that hasn't yet proven itself. The fact that the ownership group is a long-standing business owner of a company that has survived for 75+ years should give some credence to the business acumen of the ownership. If nothing else, I know that the ownership is committed to putting on a good product, and they have some practice in doing so, even if it was at a much lower level than the top flight league. How many other expansion team owners go through the same paces to assess their market well before they actually make a bid for a team? IMHO, it reeks of smart business practice, and not going after something for the whims of the owner's daughter.

Aaron

 

So someone who works for a Sahlen operation has the gall to call someone else biased? C'mon, now.

You'll be pleased to know that I have a connection with the Sahlens, too, who works with them in their various ventures into the local sports market. That person's assessment of the situation is based on direct involvement in those endeavors.

I am glad you received the shiny version of the story, but it's not the only version out there. A couple things - to think that this has nothing to do with Alex and Aaran, as a pairing, is absolutely naive. And the investment in a franchise is likely NOT currently long term and it is believed that WPS knows this but, being in crisis and needing any investment they can get, they made certain concessions they never would have made at the league's inception.

And the other perspective I can offer is from multiple parties at Niagara University (soccer program and its extended family, not to mention the university development and relations operations) who would offer a very different take on the family. Short version is that the university feels essentially bent over a barrel by the demands - oh, wait, I think you would call them 'negotiations' - of the Sahlen's clan regarding their WPS aspirations. Tying potential donations to the university 'in exchange for' access to facilities at cost is certainly the good Catholic thing to do, no?

In short, the recent business acumen you attribute to the success of Sahlens is called other things by other people. It gets results - you're right about that. And like you said, it reeks - just in a different way than you suggest.