Never too early to start a thread about a game with the old enemy! May I congratulate the Dutch on not resting 'tired' footballers and touring South America like teams used to do (your boys are also playing the Uruguayans on 8th June). I take it you will be bringing a full strength squad (injuries permitting)?
Holland contractually probably can't get away with playing a B-side. I'd be very surprised if we fielded a full strength team regardles though.. .
Holland's had problems with clubs like Bayern and Arsenal over calling up players for friendlies. As a result, when people like Robben and Van Persie have a slight cold, they're not called up.
By the way what's this old enemy thing? I don't consider Brazil an enemy. I don't think many Dutch people do. Germany, now that's an old enemy. Belgium too up to a certain level. Portugal is the country the Dutch now hate the most. But Brazil? Nah.
Wenger, Wenger....he would like all international football banned, then turns up in the Stade de France to watch it!
Let's not forget the 2010 world cup heheh. I'm just saying the Dutch don't feel that way about Brazil.
I don't think the Brazilians feel about us like they do about Argentina for example either. But friendlies... who cares.
No but I can undertand where Denislon70 is getting his feeling from.There is indeed more to this than you might think. Netherlands (NED)-Brazil (BRA) total FIFA head to head record: http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/statisticsandrecords/headtohead/team1=ned/team2=bra/index.html NED-------------------BRA 10.....Matches Played...10 3.......Wins..................3 4.......Draws................4 3.......Losses...............3 15.....Goals for............15 15.....Goals against......15 Netherlands (NED)-Brazil (BRA): Only WC games counted for, friendly's excluded: NED-------------------BRA 4......Matches Played...4 2......Wins.................1 1......Draws................1 1......Losses...............2 7......Goals for............5 5......Goals against......7 Netherlands (NED)-Argentina (ARG) total FIFA head to head record http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/statisticsandrecords/headtohead/team1=arg/team2=ned/index.html NED------------------ARG 8.......Matches Played....8 4.......Wins..................1 3.......Draws................3 1.......Losses...............4 13.....Goals for.............6 6.......Goals against......13 Netherlands (NED)-Argentina (ARG): Only WC games counted for, friendly's excluded: NED-------------------ARG 4......Matches Played.....4 2......Wins...................1 1......Draws..................1 1......Losses.................2 7......Goals for..............4 4......Goals against........7 Netherlands (NED)-Uruguay (URU) total FIFA head to head record http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/statisticsandrecords/headtohead/team1=ned/team2=uru/index.html NED-------------------URU 3.......Matches Played....3 2.......Wins...................1 0.......Draws.................0 1.......Losses.................2 5.......Goals for..............4 4.......Goals against........5 Netherlands (NED)-Uruguay (URU): Only WC games counted for, friendly's excluded: NED---------------------URU 2..........Matches Played....2 2..........Wins...................0 0..........Draws.................0 0..........Losses................2 5..........Goals for..............2 2..........Goals against........5 Netherlands (NED)-Mexico (MEX) total FIFA head to head record http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/statisticsandrecords/headtohead/team1=ned/team2=mex/index.html NED-----------------------MEX 6..........Matches Played......6 3..........Wins.....................2 1..........Draws...................1 2..........Losses..................3 11........Goals for...............11 11........Goals against.........11 Netherlands (NED)-Mexico (MEX): Only WC games counted for, friendly's excluded: NED-----------------------MEX 1..........Matches Played......1 0..........Wins.....................0 1..........Draws...................1 0..........Losses...................0 2..........Goals for................2 2..........Goals against..........2 Netherlands (NED)-United States of America (USA) total FIFA head to head record http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/statisticsandrecords/headtohead/team1=ned/team2=usa/index.html NED------------------------USA 4..........Matches Played.......4 4..........Wins......................0 0..........Draws....................0 0..........Losses...................4 7..........Goals for................1 1..........Goals against..........7 Netherlands have not played the USA in a WC match so no record can be dispayed. So we Dutch have to acknowledge the fact Portugal is our kryptonite, but we can also say we pretty much dominate everything that is relevant across the Atlantic, or the colonies as I like to call them . I have excluded the likes of Paraguay, Peru and Canada etc., because they do not belong to the historical top 3 of CONMEBOL or the historical top 2 of CONCACAF. It would make it also to easy . 1. With Brazil we are in perfect balance in all FIFA games, but have a winning record over them in WC competition 2. Over Argentina we have a winning record in all FIFA games counted for and also in WC competition 3. Over Uruguay we have a winning record in all FIFA games counted for and also in WC competition 4. Over Mexico we have a winning record in all FIFA games counted for and are in balance in WC competition 5. Over USA we have a winning record in all FIFA games counted for, no games yet played in WC competition You would say it is impossible for a country of 16 million people to have such a record over a combined population of over 660 million people, but I guess our strength comes not from our nation size but from our imagination. First we have to enjoy the final stage of the Eredivisie, all the European competitions and the CL/Europaleague, but when thats over I think it's time to start imagining winning from Brazil.
Barcalona-Villereal Saturday April the second 2011 Observed player: Afellay, Ibrahim min. 1.51 Failed 1 vs 1 action 2.50 Decent cross 5.56 Failed cross, gets blocked 11.50 Gets past his man than passes to fellow player 18.24 Failes in a 1 vs 1 20.39 First touch wrong, than makes a wrong cross that would have been a goal 23.00 Makes a wrong descision. He went for where the ball could have come, but didn't anticipated the interception by a opponant, should have challenged that opponant 31.04 Maybe the biggest mistake of the game. Easy cross that would have been a 100% goal but he failes to deliver 35.30 Failes in a 1 vs 1 situation, where winning it would have made a very dangerous situation 36.00 Not alert to receive a pass, balls goes out 41.40 Good interception 42.20 OMG Affelay takes the corners at Barca nowadays? Bad corner, gets dangerous nevertheless somehow 45.00 Freed himself in a good way and good pass 48.00 Gets past 2 players but no end result 50.30 LOL Messi gets in the game and the clown trainer assistent thinks he has to give him instructions. 55.00 Goes deep because of a pass, is faster than his opponant, but failes in his cross 55.40 Fail cross 60.00 Takes another corner, short corner 60.30 Pressures good 62.30 Failes to make a cross 65.11 Shoots on goal, bleak shot, not in a corner of the goal or something 66.00 Takes Corner, extending work of fellow teammate, goal Barca. Decent corner nothing more 68.30 Oke action 70.00 Playing from the right now 84.00 gets subbed Commentator says he played a good game and that he didn't lose a singe ball. I have penned down the moments to call bull*** on that, but we have to sit out this period where the Dutch media is on his bandwagon until they start looking at what is happening. There were far more ballcontacts by Affelay than the moments i have typed above. I have counted well over 20 times he had the ball, but all he did was playing it back to the man who passed it to him or passing it 5 meters wide. In 10 of those moments I thought go for 1 vs 1, but his opponant was to good for him 1 vs 1. He failed a couple of times against him and didn't dare to keep trying. In the other moments I agreed he didnt take action because there was double marking. His crosses were bad especially one where Villa would have made the goal with anything of a decent cross. Really bad. What is hopefull is that he was allowed to take the corners. Good for him. To be continued
I don't understand your animus towards Affelay. I watched the match on Saturday and thought that he played quite well. Remember Barca were playing without several starters for much of the match (or in the case of Xavi the whole match). Much of the Barca offense relies on the midfield triangle of Busquets, Iniesta, and Xavi and two of those three were not there. This meant that the forwards had to do more in terms of creating spaces (and remember Messi didn't come on until the second half). Affelay is a good player and will be a contributor for both Barca and the Dutch NT. Take some time off your hands and watch the matches rather than documenting every hiccup a player has.
Just curious.. did you do all these note-takings to all players or just on Afellay? What did Afellay do to you personally that made you find pleasure in finding his errors? Kinda strange, pathetic way of watching the game, imho..
I guess Arsenal and Bayern will feign small injuries for v Persie and Robben as usual, but the rest will be there I think. Maybe Sneijder will play one half, but we always want to win, because we have our pride in football as a little country. Always want to prove ourselves. I hope we give Brazil a nice defeat on their own turf. That would be a nice signal for 2014. But I think the Brazilians want revenge and will take it seriously. We'll see what happens.
We're playing Uruguay in a friendly as well right? I actually think the Dutch players will want to play in these friendlies.
Remember this? V. Hanegem said that somewhere in the year 2005. We are now 6 years later. This pissed me off so much back than. Aissatti has heard these predictions from a Dutch legend. He was a big talent back than, but I was absolutely certain that v Hanegem was talking out of his *** with his Zidane equations. He did that to fill up his column. He did that to say something sensational in the newspaper he writes for. He acted out of self interest -selling papers- not being concerned for a second that he could mess up the self image of a young boy. Since that piece, I have always been allergic to sensational media and their hyping of players to sell off more papers. The fact is they just don't care for these young players. Drenthe had one good youth tournement and wasn't even a regular for Feyenoord when he was bought for 13 milion Euro by Real Madrid. When he got a lot of critisism from the crowd he had to start to visit a psychologist. Like there was something wrong with that nice guy. There was nothing wrong with him, he was just not ready for such a big club, or he was not good enough. I can read body language and I have watched footage of training sessions from him. He was constantly looking for affirmation from his teammates. He was so damm insecure. These clubs just trow money at these youngsters and they just don't understand that it can be a really bad thing for his development. Being a young guy like Drenthe back than and say no against all that money and status was very hard for him. Media and clubs nowadays are acting like machiene's. The media only wants sensation and are so damm horny to hype the next young player that its sickening. Clubs in England offer now contracts to 14/15 year old Dutch kids. Ripping them out of their natural habitat. They just let them compete with 20 other promising youngsters from different country's and if one has succes: mission accomplished . ****** the rest they think. They miss out the natural maturing in their own habitat, the schooling in the Eredivisie and on top of that, their self image gets completly messed up. They think moving to such a big club holds the promise of filling the boots someday of one of the topplayers in the first team, which is not the case in 95% of the times. But these clubs could't care any less. Afelay goes to Barca, which immidiatly sets off the alarm bells with the media: Oh there's a player that goes up in his career and people love successtory's in sport. This can sell more papers....$$$. Let's single him out in games, how good he is. Let's try to portray an image that he is growing big time as a player. Let's lose perspective and gloss over the fact he makes as much mistakes as before he moved to Barca. Let's mess up his self image to sell more news papers or get higher ratings for TV. Hans Kraaj junior did this in his after match interview on SBS 6 when Holland won 0-4 from Hungary. I watched it and thought to myself don't buy it Afelay. Certainly not after a game against Hungary who we have beaten 6-1 before the WC. But yep he did bite in the retorical question from Kraaj which tried to get the reaction from him that he made a shift in his development at Barca, and that only training with the demi gods there has made him a better pleyer. In my book he didn't play good against Hungary but if you don't agree with that, I say it is riduculous to conclude a shift in your development after a game against a team like Hungary. A team we have butchered for the past 20 years. The thing that is bothering me is that people like horny Kraaj junior is messing up Affelay's self image with those retorical questions. The result of that will be that when he fails at Barca, as so many do, he will not be able to accept it because he was under the impression that he was on the right track. Everybody around him saw and said it to, right?? Leaving him burned and who knowes sidetracked for the rest of his career. He's a nice kid and he doesn't deserve that. That is my motivation to be critical of Afelay. Trying to keep it real. Calling a spade a spade. Trying to see what is really happening. Not in my opinion. Negative contributions: 1.51 Failed 1 vs 1 action 5.56 Failed cross, gets blocked 18.24 Failes in a 1 vs 1 20.39 First touch wrong, than makes a wrong cross that would have been a goal 23.00 Makes a wrong descision. He went for where the ball could have come, but didn't anticipated the interception by a opponant, should have challenged that opponant 31.04 Maybe the biggest mistake of the game. Easy cross that would have been a 100% goal but he failes to deliver 35.30 Failes in a 1 vs 1 situation, where winning it would have made a very dangerous situation 36.00 Not alert to receive a pass, balls goes out 55.00 Goes deep because of a pass, is faster than his opponant, but failes in his cross 55.40 Fail cross 62.30 Failes to make a cross Positive contributions 66.00 Takes Corner, extending work of fellow teammate, goal Barca. Decent corner nothing more 68.30 Oke action 60.30 Pressures good 45.00 Freed himself in a good way and good pass 41.40 Good interception 11.50 Gets past his man than passes to fellow player 2.50 Decent cross Neutral contributions 65.11 Shoots on goal, bleak shot, not in a corner of the goal or something 42.20 OMG Affelay takes the corners at Barca nowadays? Bad corner, gets dangerous nevertheless somehow 48.00 Gets past 2 players but no end result The point is that he had far more ball touches than these moments above but all he did was playing the ball back. He didn't bring in an action or danger that really worked out during the whole match Look at this gamecast and set the heatmap to Afelay: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/gamecast?id=301891&cc=5739 Now I want you to look at the the 5 red circles close to the left line line of the field on the half of Villareal. That is what I am talking about. He was standing a whole lot of time in that area and just passed the ball back that was just played to him. He didn't go 1 vs 1 and when he did he failed 3 times. One time he succeeded from the outside but saw a second man coming and passed it back again. Not creating a real forward threat. The other time he went trough the inside to the center of the field on the half of Villareal and ofcourse got stuck against central defenders. Now look at the yellow circles in the neighbeirhood of Villareal's corner flag. Many of them are the cause of Barca playing high up the pitch putting Villareal in a handbal defending position. When he was there he either passed the ball back or crossed. There hasn't been a really good cross (one decent not good) coming from those positions. All his 6 crosses were netto unusable. Even a really easy one that Villa would have scored 100%. Now look at the yellow cicles in front of the 16 of the goal of Villareal. One shot came from that and was easy to get for the keeper. He didn't created a single one-two with somebody to get trough defense that we have come to known from Barca. The right circles came from the end of the game when he played there for 10 minutes or so, switching sides. I just can't say he was of any threat. Busquets played 90 min as did Iniesta. Xavi did indeed not play, but for me that is of no excuse. I look to him from the Dutch national team perspective. We don't have Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets triangles. That's why this game was even better to value his capability when he does not have that mechanism working for him. What does he create himself? Look at this article: http://plus.maths.org/content/os/latestnews/may-aug10/football/index Important remarks: So I agree with you about the Iniesta-Xavi-Busquets triangles, but also point out that Spain (Barca) have a total different way of playing than the Dutch. Now this is what I mean with that we Dutch have to set up our own brand of football, set their own standard. Not being some Barca wannebee, as we can play a far more dangerous and effective game ourselves. We have to start to acknowledge that Sneijder is the Alpha mail in this team and that he is the fastest distributing 10 in the world. Inter won the CL with him doing what he does best, putting Milito and Eto'o and others in a perfect scoring positions. Remember those balls from Sneijder against Chelsea where he and Eto'o detroyed Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. That's what I'm talking about. Robben is the other Alpha male in this team and has the speed to run on those balls. Maybe Affelay can run on those ball's to, but he is to busy being all over the field instead of being ready to counter the other team. He's not that good in 1 vs 1 and his crosses are dissapointing so far to me. Against many opponants I would not handicapping our strength and so play with real wingers who are better in those area's that are vital in counter attacking. You will say, yes but what if the opponant takes out Sneijder? Well Inter still won the CL, so apparently he know's how get rid of markers. On top of that with VDV now in DM position can also drop those precise passes to running players, making us 2 times as dangerous, but increasing the need to have fast wingers and strikers even more. Now if I tell you that Nigel de Jong is also starting to produce those kind of passes as he did against Sunderland this weekend and you get my idea of the need for real speedy wingers. For Barca I'm cautious, for the Dutch NT I agree. Against really strong opponants his presence in midfield as extra safety (although in the Holland-Hungary games his pressuring was not good) can be of good use. I didn't document hiccups, I was trying to keep it real for his own good and looking if he is growing as a player. Also If he did something right I typed it down. I think his positive actions and negative ones are pretty accurate represented in what I typed down. I agree that my opinion shines trough but that's what we do on these board's. Cheers
To you I give a part from my previous post to make my motivation clear: Remember this? V. Hanegem said that somewhere in the year 2005. We are now 6 years later. This pissed me off so much back than. Aissatti has heard these predictions from a Dutch legend. He was a big talent back than, but I was absolutely certain that v Hanegem was talking out of his *** with his Zidane equations. He did that to fill up his column. He did that to say something sensational in the newspaper he writes for. He acted out of self interest -selling papers- not being concerned for a second that he could mess up the self image of a young boy. Since that piece, I have always been allergic to sensational media and their hyping of players to sell off more papers. The fact is they just don't care for these young players. Drenthe had one good youth tournement and wasn't even a regular for Feyenoord when he was bought for 13 milion Euro by Real Madrid. When he got a lot of critisism from the crowd he had to start to visit a psychologist. Like there was something wrong with that nice guy. There was nothing wrong with him, he was just not ready for such a big club, or he was not good enough. I can read body language and I have watched footage of training sessions from him. He was constantly looking for affirmation from his teammates. He was so damm insecure. These clubs just trow money at these youngsters and they just don't understand that it can be a really bad thing for his development. Being a young guy like Drenthe back than and say no against all that money and status was very hard for him. Media and clubs nowadays are acting like machiene's. The media only wants sensation and are so damm horny to hype the next young player that its sickening. Clubs in England offer now contracts to 14/15 year old Dutch kids. Ripping them out of their natural habitat. They just let them compete with 20 other promising youngsters from different country's and if one has succes: mission accomplished . ****** the rest they think. They miss out the natural maturing in their own habitat, the schooling in the Eredivisie and on top of that, their self image gets completly messed up. They think moving to such a big club holds the promise of filling the boots someday of one of the topplayers in the first team, which is not the case in 95% of the times. But these clubs could't care any less. Afelay goes to Barca, which immidiatly sets off the alarm bells with the media: Oh there's a player that goes up in his career and people love successtory's in sport. This can sell more papers....$$$. Let's single him out in games, how good he is. Let's try to portray an image that he is growing big time as a player. Let's lose perspective and gloss over the fact he makes as much mistakes as before he moved to Barca. Let's mess up his self image to sell more news papers or get higher ratings for TV. Hans Kraaj junior did this in his after match interview on SBS 6 when Holland won 0-4 from Hungary. I watched it and thought to myself don't buy it Afelay. Certainly not after a game against Hungary who we have beaten 6-1 before the WC. But yep he did bite in the retorical question from Kraaj which tried to get the reaction from him that he made a shift in his development at Barca, and that only training with the demi gods there has made him a better pleyer. In my book he didn't play good against Hungary but if you don't agree with that, I say it is riduculous to conclude a shift in your development after a game against a team like Hungary. A team we have butchered for the past 20 years. The thing that is bothering me is that people like horny Kraaj junior is messing up Affelay's self image with those retorical questions. The result of that will be that when he fails at Barca, as so many do, he will not be able to accept it because he was under the impression that he was on the right track. Everybody around him saw and said it to, right?? Leaving him burned and who knowes sidetracked for the rest of his career. He's a nice kid and he doesn't deserve that. That is my motivation to be critical of Afelay. Trying to keep it real. Calling a spade a spade. Trying to see what is really happening. also I didn't document hiccups, I was trying to keep it real for his own good and looking if he is growing as a player. Also If he did something right I typed it down. I think his positive actions and negative ones are pretty accurate represented in what I typed down. I agree that my opinion shines trough but that's what we do on these board's. I hope I've made clear what my angle is and if you still feel about it the way you did, I say to you I have my own house, a big *** flatscreen TV, many payed channels and I watch the game the way I want to watch it. Cheers
Got it.. Understand that I didn't mean to critic you with what you're doing with you free time, my earlier questions were purely out of my curiosity. If I may summarize your point, basically you're upset because the media over-hypes certain young players, and you're playing the role of the devil's advocate to paint the real picture of the situation (not as the media perceives it). Good luck, and I mean it. To me that's a losing battle, but again that's just my humble opinion.
Haven't seen Donetsk-Barca, but here is a compilation of Afelay's input in the game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-EOkirTyb0&feature=youtu.be
I might need the Brazil-Holland DVD from Dutch TV if any of our Dutch friends are up for a negotiation! Thanks.