I disagree with this, first off, the "Chinese government" isn't the huge monolithic body some like to think of it as, the politburo isn't issuing decisions on whether or not to host the World Cup. Yes, the CFA is technically part of the government and promotion isn't always to the best candidate, but the majority of its decisions are made purely on football basis. Also, there is a definite political element to the Olympics, China knew that and wanted to host the Olympics to show how powerful it was, both to its own people and internationally, it definitely achieved that. There isn't the same thing with the World Cup. Both the CFA and the Chinese public were pretty much in unison, they don't want the World Cup in China until the national team can put together a respectable performance in it.
Don't get it twisted, Dong was signed purely as a marketing tool, while Park was signed because he could play football. There wasn't a snowballs chance in hell that Dong would ever feature as a regular in a United shirt. When he signed with United, he probably wasn't even in the top 10 in Chinese strikers, nowadays he's still far from impressive in the CSL, and his own work ethic is what killed his chances of getting signed by a Championship side. If you look at the number of Americans playing in Europe compared to Korean, Japanese, and Chinese, the numbers are pretty shocking. I don't think its because those Americans are that great, but I think it has everything to do with the language differences. There isn't an expectation for all players to speak the country's native language (say in France, Portugal, or Holland), but if you can't speak decent English, it makes it kind of hard. I think there are Chinese players who could make it in Europe, but I don't think European teams want to take the chance on all but the very best. Good point on the United experience at Venetian, I should have remembered that since I was there 2 weeks ago. You make a good point about counterfeit jerseys, but tonight at the Bird's Nest, I bet real Inter jerseys will outnumber fakes. In the major cities, there are stores selling real jerseys and there are plenty of people who buy them, though the difference is here wearing soccer jerseys out as casual clothes is considered a major faux pas, whereas in HK everyone does it.
It doesn't have to be monolithic to make a decision like if it would go for the Olympics then or not go for the WC now. It put a lot of resource into going after the Olympics then. The fact that it put nil effort into going after the WC now in itself is very telling of an understanding within the government has been reached. While the sport related aspect is handled by the CFA, the political and international relationship aspects are important to the higher levels of the government. The Olympics were used by various international interest groups or even governments as a convenient way to score points against China. The Chinese government is well aware they will have another easy target if China hosts the WC. I think these considerations are more than anything else what is behind the Chinese government's decision of not hosting the WC. The poor performance of the NT is a consideration but in all honesty no one would expect the Chinese NT to go very far in the WC so expectation is never that high even without the poor performance of late.
Nah, not that pure. Dong had the stats in terms of physical abilities in his favor when he was signed. He also had the blessing of the most arrogant guy in Chinese soccer, Hao Haidong, which is hard to come by. Subsequently he led in scoring in Belgium for a season or two. His performance on the Chinese NT, when given a chance (and he only got a few minutes in all), was arguably one of the very few bright spots the Chinese NT has had in quite a while. And most importantly, xfactor, our very own soccer historian here, was a huge fan of him.
China didn't want the World Cup, if they wanted it, they would have got it, I think FIFA was disappointed that China didn't bid. I've never heard from anyone in the CFA that the decision not to host the World Cup was made outside the CFA. I think China's always going to be a target for certain groups and they certainly were given some ground to attack China after what happened in Tibet last year. I don't think the government pays any attention to those organizations, it cares about government and the media, and for the most part, the media was extremely positive. And, like I said, the Olympics are extremely political, the World Cup is not, and therefore you will see a focus in the coverage on soccer and only soccer, not the same political stories you saw at the Olympics. I think a Sina poll (okay, take it with a grain of salt), was around 80% in favor of China not bidding for the World Cup, people want to wait for the national team to have the potential to, at the very least, win a match in the group stage before the country hosts. From everything I heard out of CFA, the decision was also based on the same reasoning, they don't want to host it and have another 3 (losses) and done experience and won't bid until it can be reasonably foreseen the team's going to win a game.
China doesn't want the WC, that's what I said. The reason is mostly because, after seeing what transpired during the Olympics torch relay, the government doesn't want to put itself into a position again of tying its own hands while giving those anti-China clowns a big stage. What you've heard through sina poll or the CFA channels is just noise. There was plenty of worry about Korea or Japan being the first host nations to not win a game but that didn't stop them from hosting. I don't think anybody realistically expects China to be far better than Korea or Japan anytime soon as to assure a win before bidding for the WC. If anything, purely sports related, it's well understood the resource put into preparing for the WC could jump-start Chinese soccer. Basically, the decision of not hosting the WC is a political decision much more than a sports decision.
haha, I'll agree to disagree on this issue (and about Dong), there were some in the government who WANTED the World Cup for the fact it would lead to more infastructure spending, but the decision was the CFA's to make and the CFA doesn't want the team to embarass itself, especially as it was hard to get over the women's team debacle in 2007. Their thinking is that they can jumpstart Chinese soccer and don't need the World Cup to do it, whether they're right or not is left to be seen.
About Dong, I think there is something more to it. I mean, as you have said, he was relatively unknown before ManUtd signed him, so there must have been something the scouting staff saw in him to warrant interest. If ManUtd wanted to (and I think this probably would have been the best course of action in terms of marketing for them), they could have just signed a better known Chinese player in a MF or defensive role where they are not counted on to score but just to be a presence on the pitch. That way they could still be "reaping the rewards" from the Chinese fans and still only play him on the pitch without having to take a risk in the goalscoring department. I think if they had signed a ZhengZhi or SunJihai, they would still be on the roster (or bench) now. And yes, China did not want to host the WC out of fears of losing face, and this I think is a very unfortunate mistake on their part. I really don't think they give a damn over the possible attacks from pro-human rights asshats and troublemakers, we've seen them deal with it time and again even without any special events. But really, to fear hosting a WC and losing is just avoiding the issue. The best way to learn and improve sometimes is through failure. Many people will point at 2002 and ridicule China for "failing" to do anything. I would like to point out we were in a group with WC winners Brazil, 3rd place Turkey, and Costa Rica. Granted, we should have scored at least one goal against a team like Costa Rica, but we had no chance in hell to advance. Further, I don't see 2002 as a bad thing for China at all. In fact, it was a good learning experience. Look at our team in the years following 2002, we started playing quite well. It only started to really dip after Arie Haan left and we went back to mediocre play and puzzling coaching decisions. Fear of losing face or embarassment is like a horrible and cowardly excuse. Honestly, if you look at history, hosts of major events do tend to do better and get some manner of more favorable officiating. Anyone who thinks SKorea got to where they did in 2002 based on their own skill is fooling only themselves; they should not have gotten past Italy. If China wants to truly become the world superpower it craves to be, then it has to be willing to take chances and in some cases admit mistakes and accept change. What really pisses me off is how in the last few years since 2006/2007 with the NT turning into a subpar southeast asian team (yes I know we arent a SE asia team, but now we question whether or not we can even beat "powerhouses" like Thailand Vietnam or Singapore), the government and CFA have not once admitted that changes need to be made to improve the team. In fact, I have only heard of them CENSORING papers and media criticizing the performances of the NT. Way to put your heads in the sand. But yeah, if the CFA and some of the fans out there are really waiting for the NT to pull some "good" performances and qualify for the WC on their own accord before they will support bidding to host the WC, then they have a LOT of waiting to do.
Dong was just a cheap way for MU to gain popularity in the China. Get a young, talented kid for a million pounds in exchange for tens of millions of new fans worth ten times that value. What a deal that was. MU is always smart doing business. Another example is selling C.Ronaldo at the peak of his career for the maximum transfer fee.
true, but WC is not as political as the Olympics. I doubt it weighs much in the government's decision making. The fact is we suck at soccer and to go 0-3 and out again in home soil will be face-losing.
Nah, the worst management decision IMO was to not expand the rink size. The "purists" are too afraid of change. Ever wonder why Olympic hockey is so much more enjoyable to watch? Increasing the rink size would have solved so many problems. When every defender these days is 6'6" 250 pounds faster and stronger compared to the old days when these guys are way smaller, and the size of the rinks is the same, you've got a big problem. Expanding into US is not a problem. Problem was you don't take out a team with so much history and tradition like the goddamn Nordiques. This is a huge problem in the franchise model. The franchisee can simply close shop if and when he sees fit, without giving much of a crap about the fans.
Yup, but that was my point. Dong wasn't completely "crap", he had some potential. And also, ManUtd really had no choice but to sell when the player himself wants to leave. I'm sure they could have refused sale, but that would really not make any sense in the long run.
LOL, I guess its a matter of taste then in terms of rink size. Olympic hockey is ok if you just want to see a less hardhitting game where the stars skate around untouched. Expanding into the US not a problem? Markets like Phoenix? Nashville? Come on, those were HORRIBLE markets. Even the traditional hockey markets in the US were suffering (ie the NY Islanders). So yeah, I would have to say the current NHL management has been pretty crap and ignoring the Canadian market which is pretty much keeping the NHL afloat.
I'm with you on the rink size, as a fan of "old time hockey", I like the smaller rink and the physical game you get on it, though Nashville isn't a good example of a problem expansion, they have some great fans there. Phoenix, Carolina, now those are problems... Dong had potential back when he was first signed, but if you were going to pick the next great hope for Chinese soccer back in 2003, Dong wouldn't have been in the top 5. Then again, back then hopes were high for the future, with 3 players in the Prem and Dong making 4, as well as some in Germany. Those were the days...
Yup No more Chinese internationals in the top flight European leagues anymore except ZhouHaibin in the Eredivisie who is probably going to be gone soon as well.
yea I know your point, just trying to reinforce it. Dong had potential for sure. He should have stayed in Europe. Coming back to CSL was a step backward. in Europe it's easier for him to find a decent club since there are way more scouts scouting Europe than China. You're right about MU having no choice. But even if he wanted to stay I have a feeling they would still sell and pocket the what, 80million pounds of cold hard cash. MU originally bought him for 12 million. That's damn good return on investment.
LOL, I always prefer finnesse than the rough stuff. If you ask me I would even say the fighting in the matches are pretty pointless. I guess that's why I dumped hockey and now fully devote myself in soccer. Just how horrible are these markets? Got the stats to prove it? Too lazy to search myself.
NHL attendance 2009: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?sort=home_pct&year=2009 I think the PCT column means percentage of stadium capacity. The worst is 79% for Atlanta. That's not horribly bad.
NHL posts record attendance for fourth consecutive season http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=417969 I wouldn't say the Canadian market is pretty much keeping the NHL afloat. Granted the new US markets have lower attendence but look at Chicago, Minnisota, Pittsburgh, etc all doing pretty well.