All play-off games are yet to start. How, from a European point of view, is that unfortunate? Surely not because we'd all rather watch lower ranked [though flawed] teams struggling against the best of the rest of the world, then 13 strong teams trying to win the whole thing? I don't dislike seeding the play-offs per se. For this reason: The seeded draw of the WCQ groups has resulted in what should be considered a level playing field across the groups during qualification for all participants. Or as near to it as it can reasonably be, given the use of FIFA rankings and the non-existence of truely objective team strength indicators. Sure there are all sorts of issues but it is the only way to balance fairness and unfainess (i.e. all lower ranked teams play at least one top ranked team and a more or less equal number of in-betweens, no single top ranked team plays only minnows and no top ranked team meets another top ranked team) between all participants involved. The final result of the group stage in each of the groups should therefore be seen as an objective ranking of the team's strengths. So, lets assume the overall aim (for UEFA or FIFA) is to "ensure" that the four teams that objectively have the best chance of winning the whole thing reach the finals in SA. The ranking resulting from qualifying puts all of these teams level. As a consequence an open draw between them can be seen as the way to determine the strongest teams amongst them, since they will be the winners of the games, as per definition. However... That qualification ranking disregards the rest of the world, and the results of games against teams from.. over there. And they do compete in the WC. So to win it, a UEFA team will have to beat them too. So to ensure sending the teams with the best chance of winning the WC one should factor in recent results against the rest of the world, and then, in all likelihood, those 8 teams are not so equal after all. So, to me at least, seeding the play-offs based on FIFA rankings is just fine. Even though FIFA rankings are flawed. Could have lived with an open draw too. Sure they would. To allow for a 'top' team slip-up here or there... You make it sound as if we should be grateful for that.
Thats the thing though. they didn't shift the goalposts they just did what they have been doing in previous WC qualifying campaigns. Since no one said anything at the beginning of qualification about the playoffs one would assume that Fifa would keep the status quo, which they did.
You're supposed to set the rules beforehand. I don't care if its the same rules as 4 years ago. This kind of thing always happens in football too. Like when they try-out a new ball in the World Cup finals. If the idea is so stupid that you can't believe its true, its probably FIFA.
So now the issue has become "hasn't set the rules beforehand" from "changing the rules"? It's a totally different accusation. So it's not moving the goalposts in the middle of the game, it's merely "the goalposts have not been setup yet". That's totally different, but that's OK, because there are sports that the goalposts are not NEEDED from the getgo. And this "set the rules before hand" is a sorry cop-out for some teams. The worst complaint I've heard is from Ireland (Shay Given). The whining from that sorry S is pitiful. Did they play the qualifiers thinking that UEFA would have an unseeded playoffs? that they had a chance to pit against Bosnia or Slovenia in the playoffs? that's why they didn't go all out to win the two games against Italy? That's why they were screwed? If not, what difference does it make to his team whether this rule was announced in August 2008 or October 2009?
To be fair to Shay Given (etc), they are only responding to set up lines from journos. Journo: "So Shay, what do you think of FIFA obviously shafting Ireland by cheating and completely changing their minds on the seeding at the last minute in an obvious attempt to ensure that rich players like Cristiano Ronaldo make the World Cup instead of brave Irish lads who FIFA obviously are cheating against". Given (unaware of the rules until now): "Um. I don't like it." J
Blatter himself admitted two days ago that the process was unclear so you're defending something that not even FIFA themselves are trying to defend.
And how do you setup the goalposts without moving them, huh? Delaying the announcement until after all the playoff teams are determined gives FIFA the opportunity to use a different seeding formula (or non at all) if the original formula doesn't suit their needs. But yet he's doing the same nonsense for the seeding of the World Cup final tournament itself.
Oh, setting up the goalpost means "moving the goalpost"? You are getting desparate now... So what's the original formula? Did FIFA announce beforehand that they would DEFINITELY NOT use seeding when doing the UEFA playoff draws? If that's the case, I would like to see it? Any links? URLs? If they have not made such announcement, then ANYTHING GOES.
There is always a new ball at the world cup. Nothing new there. Or do you really expect FIFA to hold a press conference every four years explaining all the things that stayed the same? That would include all the Laws of the game then. Yes folks, we're only going to allow 11 men teams this time, again... And one round ball. It will be rounder than ever. It will be a new one again. Made by Addidas, as always. And it's going to have a really fancy or dull name, just like the ones we made up to mark the previous editions of this tournament to determine which national men´s team will be the football champions of the entire world! We can organise that because we are the world wide governing body of that particular sport, the rules will follow shortly. Although they are the same as last time. But you never know, I may find something new in these old texts this time, that was overlooked during the last century. Anyway, These national teams... Have I mentioned there can be only 11 players in a team? They will play football againt each other on a grass field for two periods of time -called halves- for 90 minutes. I'll elaborate on the widely-known details of the duration of the game later...
A couple of pretty silly responses. How about try out the new ball in preseason? How about laying-out the rules of the competition before the competition begins? Asking too much? Even UEFA produces a document every year on the regulations of the Champions League ( http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/competitions/ucl/88/61/44/886144_download.pdf ). It's how the real world operates.
The new ball last time actually tarnished the competition for me (far more than any poor performance by European teams). The goalkeepers were complaining right up to the kick-off that the balls were totally different to what they were used to, especially in terms of velocity and the affects of aftertouch. As a result, a bunch of spectacular long-range swervers were scored early in the contest which I struggled to appreciate because I had no way of knowing if it was the quality of the finish or the change in ball that had beaten the keeper. So I say something you'll never hear pass the lips of Michel Platini or Jack Waner "SEPP BLATTER: LEAVE OUR BALLS ALONE"!!!!!
Well, agreed about that last ball... but Addidas develops and makes them... so blaming Blatter is a bit too 'conspiracy theory' for me. Besides, I seem to remember hearing reports that FIFA actually allowed a longer period for training with that ball?
Without Blatter, I can't do my bad "Balls" joke. I understand that this tends to happen for sponsorship reasons. I mean I don't think FIFA are planning anything underhand in those decisions. If anything they're trying to implement something potentially revolutionary. My quibble is that every player is used to certain physics when it comes to the game and I want to see them at their best at a World Cup. If they are acclimating to a something as fundamental as the actual ball, for me that compromises the instincts they've been using over the last 4 years at least. I believe the training period for the ball was about a month, but Goalies were still concerned and it did seem to have an effect.
Incorrect. I'd like to draw your attention to page 13 of that document: "Seeding of clubs 9.05 For the round of 16, the group-winners are seeded above the runners-up." Wow! See that! It's called 'setting-up the rules before the competition begins even when the rules are exactly the same as the previous year.' Also referred as "something my 7 year-old nephew's ice-hockey league does before the season begins." That way there's no opportunity for UEFA to move the goalposts should Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea and Liverpool all finish runners-up in their respective groups.
Indeed... not quite so comprehensive, just a dictated memo, but anyway: "UEFA Qualification Wow. Do these guys really have 53 teams? And 13 enter? That's awkward. We'll just make 9 groups of six...oh wait, that makes 54...8 of six and 1 of 5. Winners and best 4 runners up qualify. Or a playoff. Yes I like that...9 winners then best 8 qualify for a playoff...except 1 group has one less team, so we'll just discount the points taken from sixth place teams. Right, seeding...we'll seed the groups so the rankings are divided into separate pots and stick one from each pot in every group and then for the playoffs....um....sod it, the Eurovision Song Contest is starting. We'll just wing it..."
But that's called "moving the goalpost" by your own logic. Your own words in post #358: "And how do you setup the goalposts without moving them, huh?" So no matter what they do: setting up the rules from the get-go or not, it's still moving the goalpost IN YOUR BOOK. But they still move the goalpost despite setting up the rules before the competition. Your own words: "And how do you setup the goalposts without moving them, huh? "