BL MD 5: Frankfurt - BVB

Discussion in 'Borussia Dortmund' started by hava, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Bürki
    Hakimi Akanji Hummels Guerreiro
    Delaney Witsel
    Sancho Reus Hazard
    Alcacer

    Yes, Favre doesn't like rotation and it's understandable to a degree. I don't expect an easy game, of course, but we need the win.
     
  2. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Favre should have rotated slightly. We are too defensive in this game. Leipzig went and dominated Bremen until the red card. Favre needs to stop being so cautious against the lower teams.

    Akanji has been very poor. Sloppy passing and switching off.
     
  3. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    1:1 at the half. We were in control of the game but lost that in the last 10 minutes.
     
  4. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Sancho scores the 2:1. I missed parts of the game but from what I've seen, it doesn't look like a great game. We just need the result.
    Hummels had to get subbed because of a back issue. Time for Zagadou to show he is a reliable option.
     
  5. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    And this is why we won't win the league again. Giving away crucial points needlessly minutes before Full time.
     
  6. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Favre needs to be sacked. We will win nothing and do nothing with him. He does not have the mentality of a top manager. He needs to go.
     
  7. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    This game was lost, because we cannot control and dominate games. It's pathetic. He has no clue.

    This squad is as good as any in the world. Be serious sack Favre and bring in a proper proven manager to win something with this team.
     
  8. BvB_Peon

    BvB_Peon Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Only a few games in and any kind of faith is gone... We may finish 3rd but no higher. There is no will to win and dominate what ever it takes... We don't have the winning attitude that makes champions.
     
  9. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Two lost points against Frankfurt that isn't the same like last year's team at all.
    Witsel was good but the team overall looked flat. I don't think we ever played with the sufficient energy in this game and we lost the game because of how we played the ends of each half.
    It's easier said than done but Favre needs to learn to trust more players. The more players are fit and in game rhythm, the better.
     
  10. massBVB

    massBVB New Member

    Borussia Dortmund
    Germany
    Feb 13, 2019
    this is a mediocre team from top to bottom. it is what it is. LF is not good enough for big trophies, and the squad is not as good as some might think. 2nd round in Champions League is probably the ceiling. They are nowhere near the big clubs in Europe(Barcelona, Liverpool, city). They generate revenues of 1bn $ and money talks
     
  11. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    I haven't watched full matches from Leipzig but the way they created chances against Benfica and the way they generally play, they seem to be in a stronger position to put up a fight in this title race.
    On paper, I'd prefer our squad but they seem to play really well as a team.
     
    BvB_Peon repped this.
  12. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    The squad is enough and the younger players will show it. When they leave us they will go to have great careers. Hummels has shown it and only Reus' loyalty has stopped him showing it.

    I am furious, because this is all on Favre. The players played with enough energy. It's just a rubbish excuse to explain why we didnt win.

    The problem is Favre is a negative coach and always sets up his team to defend and allow the opposition to control the game. The problem is this just gives the lower teams more confidence and we don't have defensive players

    Favre believes a draw away and a win at home are fantastic results. He is wrong. A draw is a terrible result he wont change mentality.

    Starting Delaney is a joke. Nothing wrong with his performance, but we need players to control the game.

    Just sack him now and save the season. If anyone things Leipzig or Leverkusen have close to the talent then I strongly disagree.

    I am so angry and it has been this way for a long time.
     
  13. BVBFNM

    BVBFNM Member+

    Apr 3, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    The likelihood of winning anything under a proven mid-table underachiever like Favre is the same I have of suddenly becoming Nigella Lawson's boy toy.

    The most infuriating thing is that club management fought tooth and nail for his signature and even worse, the local fanbase view him as some sort of saviour.
     
  14. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    This match has nothing to do with the players. Apart from Akanji they all played well even Delaney, who I criticise. The problem is they were set up and played like a mid table team away.

    Favre has no idea how to get his team to pass through the midfield lines, no urgency.

    Look at City they were 4-0 up in 15 minutes. Favre just sits but and Hope's the quality of his players will get him through.

    Bosz had stupid naive tactics, but he was in charge of a terrible Dortmund side. He has learnt from his mistakes and even he can set his side up to beat the average Bundesliga side.

    Forget watching Bayern, just go and watch Leipzig. They don't sit back and allow average teams to launch attack after attack.

    Then there is his insistence in playing players to exhaustion.

    If we keep Favre we will struggle to get out of the group and be fighting with Leverkusen for 4th.
     
    Blueberry_night repped this.
  15. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BVB really should have won even this match as they again failed to convert a number of great chances due to chance or (according to Favre) sloppy execution. They also pummeled Barca to the tune of 3.4 to 0.3xG.

    But teams like City and Bayern usually run up 5 goals in matches like this and leave little to variance. So you can say Dortmund was both unlucky to drop the points and still cast blame on Favre on leaving them exposed to said bad luck by failing to unshackle the talent. With the technical ability at his disposal there is no reason for ordinary Bundesliga sides to press BVB effectively. Relying on Hummels to shoot laser beams at the attackers isn't exactly a sustainable buildup strategy.

    I think we need to see Dahoud from the start. His appearances for Dortmund have been mostly bad, but also often in situations where the team is behind late in the match and he has borne an unrealistic expectation of creating offense. A pairing with Witsel would be pretty intriguing.

    Also it might be worth revisiting the CF options on the winter market, to provide relief for and an alternative to Paco. Götze was useful and sharp when he came on, but maybe there will be a disgruntled or underused option out there - something like the Batshuayi rental.
     
    astrophyz repped this.
  16. Alex C

    Alex C Member

    Oct 27, 2015
    Chatham
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The team is good enough, but you need a top coach to win trophies. Is Favre good enough? Difficult to see if there is a good replacement available at this point though.
     
  17. astrophyz

    astrophyz Member

    Sep 23, 2016
    Boston, USA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Egypt
    Missed chances and a few tired players. Favre must rotate.
     
  18. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    It goes much deeper than that. This has been an issue for over 9 months.

    I need to stop ranting and calm down, but for me Favre is done. I hope the board have the guts to sack him quickly. Reus snapped in the interview and I think he knows the real problem.
     
  19. astrophyz

    astrophyz Member

    Sep 23, 2016
    Boston, USA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Egypt
    I don't disagree with you fully.. but at the same time you can only measure a coach's achievement relative to 2 things: last season, and your goal for the season.

    If you measure Favre's last season against the one before, then he passes with flying colors, since no one expected us to push Bayern till the end.

    If you measure him against goals, then IMO, the BVB organisation's goals has always proven to be much lower than ours', the fans. So for them, I'm guessing that so far he's doing just fine.

    In Reus' interview, as I've read on goal.com, he was mad at people calling the team mentally weak. Well, that has been what many of us here have observed, since the later part of last season. And it is related to how much motivation the coach can give the players.
     
  20. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    The management's goals were articulated surprisingly open and aggressive: Fighting for the title.
    Zorc criticized after the game that a top team doesn't play like that and it's not the first time that the management has questioned certain shortcomings of the team in public. From the targets they set at the start of the season and the things they criticize, it's clear that they think the individual quality of the players is there to challenge Bayern but that there are other issues that cost us points needlessly. You shouldn't go from being lethal against Leverkusen or highly disciplined/concentrated against Barca to losing points against teams with clearly inferior talent in such a fashion.
     
  21. astrophyz

    astrophyz Member

    Sep 23, 2016
    Boston, USA
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Egypt
    That's a very welcome change that I wasn't aware of! I hope it's a long-term change of strategy.
     
  22. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Reus's reaction to the reporter isn't anything about Favre, IMO. He is irritated at certain media outlets' tendency to attribute every negative result or team failure to Mentalität this, Mentalität that before bothering to dig into what really happened on the field and actually talk about football. They are basically suggesting that "you lost because you are a bunch of pu••ies", which may have been fair in light of the 5-0 drubbing at Bayern last season (Weigl was shown in the Amazon documentary yelling "no balls! We play like little kids!" in the dressing room), but I think this latest result was more a combination of technical mistakes and tactics rather than some deficit in mental constitution. In that sense Favre and Reus would probably agree.
     
  23. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    Reus was implied it was something else not mentality and I fully agree. Mentality has nothing to do with it. It's a poor excuse used by people, because they cannot understand why the team does not do better. I am glad Zorc has come out and criticised things.

    There are a couple of vital problems.

    1. Delaney and Witsel don't have the ability to link the defence and the midfield. Even when they play well individually they lack this ability and it means our attack is starved of the ball.

    2. Favre is overly cautious in his approach and has the team set back and allow other teams to control the game. This gives the opposition confidence and allows them to grow in the game.

    3. Favre cannot set up the team and does not play the players needed to control possession. This means that late on we are just constantly being attacked. Eventually any team would concede.

    4. Favre never rotates allowing our players to get tired.

    Mentality is not the problem and this squad has the skills to match any. A mid table manager way out of his depth is ruining things.

    Sack him as soon as possible. Get Mourinho in now, before Madrid do, though I feel Zidane will keep his job.
     
  24. hava

    hava Member+

    Apr 30, 2016
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    While I don't like the often used buzz words like intensity or mentality, it's easy to see why they are used in our case. We look different in our approach when we play top teams or those at the bottom of the table. Reus said it's not about mentality but about playing your game for the full 90 minutes. But I think that aspect could be seen as one of the reasons for the mentality talk.
     
  25. eaglespark

    eaglespark Member+

    Apr 9, 2015
    Club:
    Crystal Palace FC
    We don't look differen. This is a myth. Leverkusen are just incredibly naive and the way to beat them is to follow Favres tactic for every match.

    Against every top team we were getting a thrashing until injury saved us and Dahoud came on. In the matches where we did not play Dahoud deep we just got hammered like Bayern, Atleticio away, Tottenham both legs, etc.

    Tactics and personal are the problem. I did not watch the super cup, but even then it was a poor performance where we got lucky by all reports and I commented in this.

    The quality of the team is saving Favre. He needs to and he should have been sacked yesterday.
     

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