Bill Hamid at DC United (on loan from FC Midtjylland)

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by prowazekii, Oct 28, 2011.

  1. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    okay well then why is horvath being called up then? his recent errors were much worse than hamid's, imo...

    how about 67 million pound Allison at liverpool? that guy had some HOWLERS and is still in place....GK make blunders all the time and stay in their spots.....some get the hook and some don't...it's not as if the criteria for maintaining a GK job are black and white.

    hamid wasnt sharp likely b/c he was sitting on the bench for 6 months.....i'm not going to hold that against him like you seem insistent upon.

    that, and that his danish club have no skin in the game...are likely why he is back at dc united more than his not being good enough, imo.....

    its just good business for them to loan him back to mls...so they did it. doesnt mean he isnt good enough, imo.
    i prefer steffen too. but there are 3 per roster and the depth chart must go much deeper than that. i would put hamid above horvath and bono from what i've seen. and i also like melia and wish he would be considered.

    also, about staying in denmark and working on his game...that would be a horrible idea....hamid seems like the player who doesnt do well when he's not getting games. i think that's why he's back in dc. he wouldnt be improving on the bench in europe...no need to just rot away.
     
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  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Hamid is 27. He just doesn't have the time to be stuck on a bench (or worse) in Europe to keep improving at the bubble gum game.

    My nightmare is some Euro club taking Steffen away to put him to sprout roots with the reserves. Then, we'd have nobody decent for Qatar. It'd be the perfect sabotage.
     
  3. Ceres

    Ceres Member+

    Jan 18, 2004
    Aarhus, Denmark
    Club:
    AGF Aarhus
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    #903 Ceres, Sep 5, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2018
    To be honest ... if you are not considered good enough by FCM to be a regular starter in the Danish Superliga then why would you even consider him to be good enough for the USMNT ? ... You need to hope that FCM actually want him back, otherwise there should be no chance of him being good enough for the USMNT ...
     
  4. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    He was #2 or #3 before going to Denmark. Right now our #1 is Zack Stteffen who plays in the Crew (MLS).
     
  5. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    There are howlers/blunders that are one off mistakes and there are fundamental flaws in goalkeepers game that make mistakes recurring. Goalkeepers who have performed for a club for a while are often given the benefit of the doubt. Becker's recent mistake is quite easy to fix and there are 67 million pounds why they will let it slide (other than Klopp being a good coach). We should also keep in mind that the guy he replaced was basically for two mistakes after having a great season.

    I'm not holding that single game against him, but more his play over the last couple years didnt suggest that it was an outlier. The two goals he conceded against Ireland were shot from close range and cross far post. I dont expect him to make the save on the shot, but he committed early like he often does, leaving the top part of the goal open. He flailed at the cross just like the one he did this weekend that ended up off the post.

    How does the club not have skin in the game? They own an asset. They should want to use that asset to help them win games and/or maximize its value. I don't see a loan back to the place he came as maximizing his value. It seems more about keeping him happy and offloading his salary.

    I dont think Horvath should be there based on current performance and thought expectations of him were way too high around here and by the US coaches.

    If we had an important tournament today, id choose Melia and Guzan as back ups. Since I'm focused on 3-4 years from now I'm probably bringing in a veteran (Melia) and a young guy for the future (Horvath, Klinsmann, etc). I'm not wasting time on a 27 year old that far from the level we need and isnt heading in the right direction. I'm playing Steffen every minute unless one of the back ups out plays him consistently in practice.

    If Hamid can't fight for a spot and work on his game, then we should close this YA thread and take him out of the picture for the USMNT. Every top GK we have ever had put their time in fairly or unfairly to win and maintain their spot. He is only going to fix his issues in training and probably needs time not playing to focus on it. Whatever he has been doing hasnt been working. He isnt materially better than he was in 2014.
     
  6. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    My nightmare is Steffen stays in MLS and stagnates like Hamid has. I'd hope he moves at the end of the year so if he needed a half or even full season to adapt, he'd have time get game experience and be sharp by 2021.
     
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  7. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    i get what you are saying and i agree with most of it.

    where i differ:

    1. i think hamid's play has been hampered by injuries and not playing ...i've seen him have amazing games for dc united where he basically kept the team in the game single-handedly...the type of performances I havent seen from some of the other us keepers. i think you are being too harsh on his poorer than peak form and not weighing the mitigating factors in your assessment of his play....though i agree he hasnt wowed much lately.

    2. gk is different than field player in terms of development and age...27 is young and i'm not really convinced that gk being europe is as big of a deal as it is for field players...though certainly it cant hurt. i think the next couple of WC are still i n play for a 27 year old gk and maybe not for a field player.

    3. by skin in the game i meant they didnt have to pay a transfer fee...got him on a free...so they basically dont have to worry as much about things turn out...espeically if they loan him. but of course they want him to do as well as possible.


    4.. most importantly....coming off a WC with by FAR the highest amount of PK Ever....the ability to stop a shot/PK is more important than ever for a GK, imo.

    Hamid is right up near the top of usmnt depth chart for stopping a shot/PK, imo.

    where would you rank Hamid in terms of stopping PKs? I would put him top 3.
     
  8. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    It's a shame that Midtjylland was the best option he had. He also had Frankfurt but ultimately signed with the Danish club (assumingly because he'd be their #1). On the positive, he has a Danish league medal. But played basically no role in getting.

    Kinda funky season he and Horvath had. Though at least Horvath played in like 50% of his team's games last season.


    I hope he does return to Denmark when the loan ends. I feel he can succeed there. And the whole return to DC bites into that opportunity to prove himself. That being said; too many of our guys recently haven't taken the plunge overseas. Guys like Johnson or Bingham. Surely, they could have landed at some Scandinavian club or a 2 Bundesliga or Belgian club in the last few years. It's good to see MLS rewarding quality keepers. But our young guys still need to push through and abroad is the key IMO.
     
  9. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    I didn't notice that Clark was sold to Portland and the Danish keeper injured. So, Hamid is the no.1 until end of the play-offs right?
     
  10. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    I missed this a couple of weeks ago...

    1. I've seen have games where he makes many big saves and keeps the team in the game too, but he makes small subtle mistakes in just about every game, that often go unpunished. Injuries have played a part, but that has been excuse for him for over 4 years now. One of my biggest things I look for in a GK is consistency. Hamid has been consistently injured or off form with big games mixed in. Coaches dont bet on that at the highest level.

    2. 27 is fairly young, but the top GKs in the game have established themselves at the top of the game before then. Hamid is still plodding away at a much lower level without seeing material improvement. The one thing that works against Hamid in age is he relies heavily on his athletiscm.

    I completely disagree about playing at the highest level for a GK. There are many factors for this. The first is the pressure. A top GK has to be incredibly mentally tough to handle the large crowds and insane scrutiny by fans and media of every play. The faster the speed of play and higher tactics make decision making more challenging and with less time. More talented players will play more challenging balls, be more deceptive, and punish more mistakes. If Hamid just practice with one of the biggest clubs in the world for a year he would probably realize weaknesses he never knew about.

    3. I slightly agree with this. People value things less that they didnt have to pay for, but he is still an asset that they would want to get value out of on the field or through transfer. Maybe Hamid forced this loan, but chances of them selling him for profit are unlikely to increase with him back in the same location he has stagnated for the last 4+ years.

    4. I havent watched many goalkeepers enough in PK situations. He could easily be in the top 3 with athletic ability. I'd guess taller and lankier GKs like Horvath and Gonzalez could challenge him in this area. Even if he is top 3 in this area, it is only a small percentage of what would go into me choosing my #2 & 3 GKs.
     
  11. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    @adam tash , we are only halfway through the DCU/NYRB game and Hamid has two mistakes, one costing them a goal. How do you think this type of play translates to the international level?
     
  12. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    i'm watching the game...yeah that goal was sloppy....Hamid has to do better on that.

    I still think you undervalue shot-stopping in your assessment of GK.
     
  13. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    He is a very good shot stopper. Unfortunately, that is only portion of the job. One of the issues is his positioning, footwork and preparedness means he allows goals a lesser shot stopper would make.
     
  14. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Thing with Hamid is that he stays in your mind more for the saves, because they tend to look quite spectacular, than by the mistakes in positioning and initial reaction that make some of those saves look harder than they should be.

    At this point it's no longer rust.
     
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  15. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    The second was unstoppable due to the deflection.

    His positioning was poor on the third and savable. If he he back on the line he would have had more time to react. He is also "even" between near and far post when the calls for him to be at least slightly shading toward the near post because of the angle and the defender has the far post covered.
     
  16. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    #916 adam tash, Sep 16, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
    at the end of the day, the us player pool is mostly about picking the flaws you are okay with in players. clearly, the flawless players are preferable. and hamid's current form is far from perfect...i think he has played better at times in the past than he currently is. hopefully he can get better as the mls season winds down....

    to me, i'd much rather have the GK who is good at stopping shots. period. yeah, the other stuff matters but only slightly, and not enough to meaningfully impact rankings. i want the GK who is going to stop the shot over the one who is going to be in the right position more often.

    Hamid is in the mix for top 3 at the moment re: us player pool...nothing more than that. I'm not saying he should be #1 or anything. the other GK are having their issues as well...look at bingham or horvath or bono or gonzalez etc all of them have struggled recently as well. even steffen, the consensus #1 at the moment, handled the ball outside the box in the mexico game the other day. and guzan had a horrible gold cup under JK and got sent pakcing out of the EPL for bad play.....so....to me there arent these impeccable options out there that stand out above someone like hamid despite his recent imperfections.
     
  17. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    the third was savable but many many GK dont make that save....it was a reflex play and he was shading the near post....it wasnt a blunder or anything....a nice play by BWP and RBNY more than a bad play by Hamid, imo. yeah it wouldve been nice if he saved it but it wouldve been a highlight reel save most likely if he did.
     
  18. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    how does he compare to other keepers in the league (since his return)?
     
  19. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    His positioning was poor on the third goal. He gifted NY a goal and could have won the game for them on the third. This is at a level well below international play.

    I'm not sure most coaches would agree. This is why goalkeepers who make mistakes that costs the teams games get benched. The mistakes he made today aren't new and about form. They have always been there and he hasn't fixed them. For some reason, NY teams always light him up. Maybe it is because BWP and Villa are two of the better forwards he faces or they know his tendencies. I'll take a guy who does all the basics right like Rimando or Melia over an erratic shot stopper like Hamid any day. I'd rather force the other team to beat to beat us than beating ourselves.
     
  20. mattjo

    mattjo Member+

    Feb 3, 2001
    Washington DC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #920 mattjo, Sep 16, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
    He has been an improvement for DC since he returned. He made some mistakes today (I was at the match), but then again NYCFC had 31 shots and 9 on goal and he was a big part of the reason DC United got that draw. He was also solid against Atlanta (although not flawless, he missed coming out one time, but he was good at distribution taking advantage of Atlanta's high line repeatedly). I wouldn't select him over Steffen, but he would definitely be over somebody like Horvath for me right now. He is in the conversation but not automatically in the top 3 GKs.
     
  21. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    His save percentage would put him pretty high, 2nd or third overall, and his goals against average would put him somewhere around 7th. Of course, numbers can lie, and goalkeeper numbers are not an exception. The closest we can get to a legit analysis of the numbers is to compare him to Ousted, who played for DC before Hamid returned. Hamid is stopping 75 percent of the shots he's facing, and has a 1.25 GAA. However, he hasn't faced a PK yet (and, to be fair, his entire season with DC has been during Rooney time, when DC has been a different team). Ousted had a 1.88 gaa with a 59.3 percent save average and did face 3 pks, FWIW.
    IMO, he's been good but not at the level of Melia or Frei or the top shelf keepers.
     
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  22. adam tash

    adam tash Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    [​IMG]

    Another Team of the Week nod for Hamid....DCU back in the playoffs if the season ended today.
     
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  23. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Keep in mind there were only 4 games this week so he beat out shuttlesworth and Howard who had shutouts too and Miller who gave up two goals.

    He bobbled a ball right at him and his positioning was questionable on a couple of plays. He had one nice reaction save at the near post in the first half.
     
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  24. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    He's got a 1.00 goals-against-average.

    That would be the best in MLS if he played enough games to qualify.
     
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  25. butters59

    butters59 Member+

    Feb 22, 2013
    The same as when he left. Top 5, depending on form. Nobody is clear first. Melia, Frei, Steffen, Guzan al are close.
     
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