BigSoccer's Players of the Season: 1968-69

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Tom Stevens, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    While other comrades are encouraged to give their vote, as a curiosity, I put here the classification accumulating the seasons 1966-67 and 1967-68.

    1 Best
    2 Charlton, Bobby
    3 Albert
    4 Beckenbauer
    5 Eusebio
    6 Cruyff
    7 Facchetti
    8 Mazzola
    9 Dzajic
    10 Johnstone
    11 Tostao
    12 Pirri
    13 Rivera
    14 Gemmell
    15 Perfumo
    16 Carlos Alberto
    17 Lubanski & Pelé
    19 Rocha
    20 Shesternev
    21 Gerson
    22 Muller, Gerd
    23 Amancio
     
  2. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    My 23:
    Adamec, Jozef (Spartak Trnava, Czechoslovakia)
    Beckenbauer, Franz (Bayern Munich, West Germany)
    Best, George (Manchester United, Northern Ireland)
    Bremner, Billy (Leeds United, Scotland)
    Cruyff, Johan (Ajax, Netherlands)
    Dumitrache, Florea (Dinamo Bucuresti, Romania)
    Gerson (Botafogo, Brazil)
    Jairzinho (Botafogo, Brazil)
    Keizer, Piet (Ajax, Netherlands)
    Kindvall, Ove (Feyenoord, Sweden)
    Lubanski, Wlodzimierz (Górnik Zabrze, Poland)
    Mazurkiewicz, Ladislao (Penarol, Uruguay)
    Muller, Gerd (Bayern Munich, West Germany)
    Pele (Santos, Brazil)
    Peters, Martin (West Ham, England)
    Prati, Pierino (AC Milan, Italy)
    Riva, Luigi (Cagliari, Italy)
    Rivelino, Roberto (Corinthians, Brazil)
    Rivera, Gianni (AC Milan, Italy)
    Schnellinger, Karl-Heinz (AC Milan)
    Schulz, Willi (HSV, West Germany)
    Tostao (Cruziero, Brazil)
    Zhekov, Petar (CSKA Sofia, Bulgaria)
     
    Gregoriak, schwuppe and Titanlux repped this.
  3. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Could you tell us more about Dumitrache and Adamec?
    Do you think this is the year where Rivelino has his breakthrough? From what I've seen he still issues with the NT at this point.

    Looks really good overall.
     
  4. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    Dumitrache is there because of Romania's WC-qualifiers. I had a big debate between Dobrin (who had an article written on him in WS) and Dumitrache, who seemed like the slightly bigger star to me. There was a mention of how interesting it was that three Eastern European nations had seen a world-class forward emerge around the same time. They were Dumitrache, Lubanski, and can't remember if it was Adamec or Asparukhov. :confused:

    Adamec is there because of the Spartak Trnava EC-run, all-around rep etc. Rivelino (like Schulz) because of the Brazil vs. FIFA game, which I saw as a high-profile event. He had already established his creds at NT-level the previous year, so with them trying to figure out how to work in all the stars, I don't see his omission as a big problem. I see the situation as being similar to Italy shuffling between Prati, Domenghini and Riva, or Rivera and Mazzola.
     
  5. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    Adamec was far from impressive when it mattered home vs Ajax.
     
  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yes this matches with what I said on the first page. Here a surprisingly good overview of that season (use translate):
    https://www.transfermarkt.nl/nederl...-compleet-in-de-database/view/news/334695?rss

    I think there isn't that much between Van Hanegem and Kindvall and some have also made a case for Israel (ranked #2 in footballer of the year behind Bals - the most prominent award I mean). WvH has 14 non-penalty goals (Kindvall had 28, plus 2 penalties) and 11-12 assists were pretty good as well (Kindvall had 5-6 assists). Combine this with the obvious ticking and scrapping work he did and he has a case.

    WvH had more goals and more assists than Kindvall in the domestic cup for the double (including decisiveness in the final). Kindvall on the other hand scored twice against Ajax in the domestic cup (1-2 win away), which happens to be the only (!) domestic cup game Cruijff lost between 1965 and 1973.

    Whether Feyenoord had still won the championship with Cruijff playing all games is though seriously doubtful (same applies to the 1971, 1976, 1977, 1978 seasons).

    Both players played well in the Intertoto Cup (winning their group without losing a match) with both being decisive (Kindvall two goals, WvH one goal). Kindvall returned to Sweden in 1971 and thus missed some later successes (the UEFA Cup, championship, another Intertoto trophy).
     
    Gregoriak and Tom Stevens repped this.
  7. WorldCupWarehouse

    WorldCupWarehouse New Member

    Liverpool FC
    Egypt
    May 6, 2019
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    Egypt
    wow thank you for posting this
     
    annoyedbyneedoflogin repped this.
  8. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    June '69
    This is based on VI ratings I guess? Different from "voetballer van het jaar"

    [​IMG]




    Dec '68
    I don't know what the last sentence exactly means, but it might be mocking the view of ranking Kindvall ahead of Cruyff @ BD 68

    [​IMG]
     
  9. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    So, according to the Dutch public opinion, Cruijff is the top dog. But the French see Kindvall on top.
    The last sentence has the writer indicating that Cruijff vs Kindvall is a nice topic for discussion during the Christmas holidays.
     
    PDG1978 and PuckVanHeel repped this.
  10. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #160 PuckVanHeel, May 6, 2019
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
    As explained before it is indeed a different one as the thing cited on wikipedia. Both are mentioned in this article:
    https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=KBNRC01:000033611:mpeg21:a0059

    I don't think it is based on the VI grades but probably influenced indirectly.


    The last sentence means: "Saucy piece of meat to talk about, these christmas days..." It indeed signals some doubt about that call. Keep in mind the press was to an extent also aware about foreign press that did rate it the other way (such as "beautiful gesture" Miroir, Brian Glanville etc.).


    The prominent sports columnist of that time Nico Scheepmaker (whose favorite player was by the way Keizer - even English sources know that quote) had this opinion piece on the FUWO poll.

    https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd:010618357:mpeg21:a0382


    The East German football weekly Fuwo has conducted its annual survey with the help of the major sports magazines in Europe. The questions concerned the ten strongest countries in Europe (football strength, not military strength), the formation of "the" European team, the four countries that come to the semi-finals at the 1970 world championships and the European country that improved the most in 1969. In the latter question, Belgium came out as the winner, with Romania in second place and Italy in third place. The European ranking (first question) showed this order: 1. Italy, 2. England, 3. West Germany: 4. Russia, 5. Czechoslovakia, 6. Sweden, 7. Bulgaria, 8. Belgium, 9. Romania and 10. Hungary and Scotland. The countries most likely to win a place in the semi finals in Mexico are Brazil, England, Italy and West Germany.

    Little shocking so far. Shocking is always and forever the ideal set-up of "the" European team. It looks like this (I repeat this from Voetbal International who took part in the survey for the Netherlands). Goal: Banks (England). Behind: Gemell (Scotland), Sjesternjew (USSR), Beckenbauer (W-Germany) and Facchetti (Italy) Middle: Moore (England) and Rivera (Italy) For: Best (Netherlands), Kindvall (Sweden), Muller (W-Germany) and Riva (Italy).

    Finishers
    A nice team, none of that. Telstar would have fewer problems if it could pass on this setup to the newspapers. But I still wonder if too many sports editors hang around too long with former players. The Scot Gemell, for example, isn't his reputation today largely due to the one devastating shot with which he kicked Celtic to the European Cup a few years ago? Is Banks really the best keeper in Europe? And Moore and Best? And now I am silent for a moment about the unity of the chosen team. What is the chosen Kindvall (a first class finisher, he proved that against DWS), without his "applicators" Moulijn and Van Hanegem? And isn't the Gerd Mueller next to him also a shaved finisher? And Riva? George Best also isn't exactly the "feeder" type, he is the hyper-individualist, so in a possible match of this team the three or four finishers in the forefront would soon cancel each other, in their hunger for the rare "finishing ball" that would be pushed to them.

    Chauvinism?
    And Cruijff, you will ask. Is Kindvall really better than Cruijff? Johan is indeed mentioned, occasionally, namely by ADN from East Germany, Sportski Novosti from Yugoslavia and Voetbal International from the Netherlands. So three times. Kindvall, on the other hand, receives no fewer than seven votes from the seventeen participating magazines. Not by the way, from the Rotterdam-based magazine Voetbal International, because with all respect for Kindvall we, the Dutch, of course know better: Cruijff largely surpasses Kindvall. The first reaction people have here when one sees that a sports magazine has chosen its own countryman is "Haha, bias, chauvinism, nothing good!".

    In fact an incomplete opinion. Those Hungarians and East Germans will laugh when they see that Voetbal International has placed no fewer than three Dutch players in the European team, but we know better than those Hungarians and East Germans that Van Beveren is indeed Europe's best keeper, and that nobody is better right now than Rinus Israel, as good as Kindvall. Best, for example, is not better than Cruijff. It is precisely for this reason that the "chauvinistic" positions are the most interesting, because the writers know all about the players. The Bulgarians, for example, want their goalkeeper Simeonov in the goal. The Swiss are so wise not to set up any Swiss, but apparently they have gained experience with the East German keeper Croy, who they have put in the goal. Typical is World Soccer from London, they have not chosen Gemmell and Best (they know their current form better than the Portuguese), but Banks, Moore, Peters and Hurst. The three East German magazines are modest, only one of them puts their own keeper Croy in the goal, but they all argue for the Yugoslav left winger Dzajic, indeed the best left winger I have ever seen live - up there with Keizer. Dzajic got a total of six votes, more than Ball and Prati (one vote each), but not enough to displace Riva, who got fifteen votes and five times was placed on the left wing next to Dzajic. The Czechs argue for Victor in the goal, the Russians put their own countryman Rudakow among the poles and argue for Moentjan, their footballer of the year, at the forefront. What do we know about this Moentjan? Nothing. But those who do know him (the Russians, the East Germans, the Romanians) put him in the team. The Poles argue for their compatriot Lubanski at the forefront, the French suddenly see something in the East German Pumm (that thought did not occur in any of the three participating East German sports magazines ..) and the Yugoslavs are apparently dissatisfied with the current form of Dzajic, but Holcer politely recommended the attention (Holcer knocked the Netherlands out of the world championships by holding Keizer a while ago [1 november 1967], causing Keizer to be kicked out, sent away and no longer eligible to play in the preliminary rounds for Mexico ...)

    Bet?
    The ultimately chosen team is of course extremely strong. But what I wonder is whether the shadow team, composed by the 'real connoisseurs' above, is not at least as strong. For example this team. Goal: Van Beveren (or Croy). Behind: Shalamov (Bulgaria), Israel (the Netherlands), Schulz and Vogts (W-Germany). Middle: Moentjan (USSR) and Overath (W.-Germany). For: Lubanski (Poland), Bene (Hungary), Cruijff (the Netherlands) and Dzajic (Yugoslavia). Bet that this second team will beat the first. What will we bet for? The transfer amount for Jopie?
     
    Gregoriak, schwuppe and PDG1978 repped this.
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    "Sport Illustrierte" (Munich based) named a value of around 3 million D Mark for JC14 (I found this when searching for George Best, Kindvall comparisons), June 1969 and estimated very high.

    https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd:011238357:mpeg21:a0280

    Guilder to D-Mark exchange rate here

    "Johan Cruyff is not the type of the attacking "tank" who rolls everything that gets in his way. He is not nearly strong enough for that. But he does not avoid the rough duels and he does not fear any opponent. His main weapons are intelligence, sprint speed, agility and lightning-fast counters/outbreaks. He dribbles like George Best, he shoots like Gerd Muller, he oversees a situation as fast as Franz Beckenbauer and he has sparkling improvisations like Gianni Rivera.
    When he is at the ball, he always takes a new turn to outwit his opponents. He is used to having two or three special guards with him. If he initiates one of his irresistible rushes - which in European Cup matches made him the hero of the day - then he looks like a hawk hitting his victim. He instinctively smells his chance and exploits it cold-blooded. His shots come as a complete surprise and are so swift that the keepers hardly see the ball flying "


    There is some more there I see now - this are surprisingly good profiles about all the Milan players and their track record (more good publications have been digitized since I checked last time):
    https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd:011238656:mpeg21:p017
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This one also made by 'the French' (for an invitational match) had it the other way
    https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd:011197856:mpeg21:a0125

    Same applies to the Coluna farewell match of a year later, for which both were invited (with Kindvall for the bench).
     
  13. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    Maybe no one else wants to vote for their 23 favorites? I really want to vote the XI to start working in the 1969-70 season. Or maybe it would be possible to start the new season without having to close the previous one ...
     
  14. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    From what I understood, France Football don't say that Kindvall is better than Cruijff (that is in '69 or '68).
    On the contrary, if they make the comparision (here in '69), it is more to suggest that Cruijff is certainly the best footballer (intrinsically, if you know what I mean).
    They just say that they are two different players on a technical/ tactical/ role level plus that the Swede will be in Mexico whilst Cruijff lead Ajax to a European Cup runner-up place but will not be in Mexico (and was not selected in the NT anyway/ played only one match in Poland in Sept. '69 discounting the game against LUX in March, in Rotterdam).
    Thus their ranking choice wich is about who was the best on that specific year which is 1969 (not the best footballer in absolute).
    I don't say that I agree or disagree but their "arguments" or 1969 profiles are valuable as (objective) justifications for their choices, imo.
    They don't talk about the domestic cup then , it is true, but they don't insist much on the domestic league win neither wich would go in favor of Kindvall in their view, as he was something like "astute enough", as they say, to bang them into the nets sometimes scoring from half-chances or from nowhere (top scorer btw), whilst the Ajax goals were more "elaborated sequences". Sequences that Cruijff embodied we could add, to make it clear, for he played at midfield too on a strict tactical point of view.
    As for Van Hanegem of Feyenoord, who certainly made a good number of assists and goals as stated above by PvH, though he was for sure a supervalue at the heart of his team, he can't claim to be the incarnation of such a playing-style that Ajax could have. It is more about long-passes too if I'm not mistaken, without wanting to go to the point of caricaturizing things.

    That's all these things that make a Ballon d'or ranking, by single card vote or even more so by global/ final ranking. Seems legit. Then a journalist can write that Cruijff is just the best and that a comparison with Kindvall is "just for christmas holidays discussion", he has the right to do so since it is just about criticizing the principle of the Ballon d'or in itself, imo (Cruijff being better than Kindvall being only stating the obvious, so the most important part in his sentence is well the second part of it, which is about Christmas things).

    But what are we doing through these threads? It is not supposed to be Ballon d'or alike? We're not 23 unfortunately but still some voters will put the accent on the abilities of a player more, or on his resume more. Both ways are defensible.
    I guess that if we got 20 voters here on board, "talent" would win at the end of the day though. Unlike in the true Ballon d'or were it is more tight and where the achievements generally permit to make the difference as for the very first rank or top-3.

    Personally, I don't agree with that statement said earlier in the thread that Cruijff or a bit later Platini were as good when they still had not won anything as since when they finally won something.
    As stated by Platini himself (or Zidane also), you become a better player when you start to taste to victory. It's like defloration. And one victory call for other victories. First time you can be lucky but then you know what to do and what ingredients to put in in order to win again. Or to maximize the chances to win again, ofc. It can be about confidence, tactics, preparation, management of the event, and finally management of the match in itself individually and collectively... a bit of all of that.
    You can have the abilities to be a champion and the mentality of a champion very early but until you did not become the champion, you're not.
    I don't think that Kindvall was better than Cruijff in '68-69 (I think that Cruijff was better) but I have the impression that Kindvall was a more mature player ( keeping in mind their own carasteristics and potentialities). And I'm not certain in wich order I'd rank them at the moment. Well, yes, I do (I did and still does it like this) : Cruijff 5th and Kindvall someting like from rank #7 to #12, maybe something in the middle of it... but I mean, the comparison is not uninteresting at all imho.

    I think that qualifying for the World Cup was a big point in '68-69. If not the point.
     
    Gregoriak repped this.
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #165 PuckVanHeel, May 8, 2019
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
    I don't agree with this. From watching videos (vs Milan, vs Celtic etc.) it is obvious he had also a very refined short passing game. He slowed it down and then probed it short.

    No he wasn't the incarnation in the way very few players in history accomplished. But with his raw edges and dockworker appearance, and demeanor he was easily a symbol of his team. That mid season ranking I posted had WvH as number one.

    I don't say he was (clearly) better as Kindvall but it is close. The difference in goal involvement (league) is eight in favor of Kindvall, including the other competitions it is down to four or five.

    The FF profile isn't readable to me but I can see his name is mentioned in Kindvall his write-up.


    It's more like Platini started to play with better players (defenders) to me, but let leave that for another time.

    Starting with the things in bold, the factor of 'luck' is forgotten here. Every great player has received their lucky breaks but some way more than others (for JC14 it's always the 2 centimeters offside call in the 74wcq). That luck wasn't there against Milan, because of the injuries and frankly also because Milan belonged to the 'license to cheat' cartel brigade (as proven later by Sunday Times and others).

    In these years he scored open play goals against the champions of England, Spain, Germany, Portugal and Czechoslovakia; and created a goal against the Italian champions (who rarely conceded a goal). Now, the number of players with a comparable track record is really a small list.

    Ajax is very arguably the smallest or 2nd smallest team to reach the EC final which is in itself a "winning" achievement and champion mentality (also spot how they came into trouble without him, such as in the 2nd leg of the semis). Don't underestimate that feat.

    What did Maradona win before he was 25? How does his big game profile actually look like?


    Of course that is important but let's not make the three goals by Riva against Wales bigger than it is. Rivera had not a certain starting spot and played only three qualifiers.

    Not qualifying for a tournament did not prevent high finishes of Di Stefano, Law, Best, Albert, Beckenbauer and many others.

    Cruijff delivered the goods in both matches he played. Scoring against Luxemburg and a through-ball assist against Poland. He also had two highly praised games against England (as said, Best and Pele also played twice against England and provide an interesting comparison).

    Kindvall his game profile:
    https://eu-football.info/_player.php?id=10571

    To me it is absurd to rank folks like Kindvall, Riva, Rivera, Tostao ahead (but ofc it is applauded by some usual suspects).
     
    wm442433 repped this.
  16. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    OK.
     
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I found this in the January 1970 'Goal Magazine' issue:

    [​IMG]
    (Vernon erroneously says Puskas won the BdO but o.k. - also spot the comment on 1967-68 specifically which shouldn't come as a surprise)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    (it is said he's dependent on Keizer's presence - do the facts back that up??? seems that other articles from that time - and later - saw it different anyway, phrases as "put on the map", "[losing him] could well kill the progress they have made", "because they aren't big enough to give him star treatment")

    Intriguing comment also that the days of playing past thirty-three are over (at the time). For sure he had already a sharp idea about those things; in 1972 he alluded to (predicted) the future application of computers in football but ofc there's that famous quote too that some things are not detectable by a computer.
     
    Gregoriak, Titanlux and Tom Stevens repped this.
  18. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    We've been stuck here a long time. Are there possibilities to continue this thread? To me, I would particularly love to continue and start the next season.
     
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    I'm not sure if Tom is quite busy or exhausted by the process and needs a break, or is simply expecting more votes to come in from those who cast them on other threads (and hoping for more votes anyway, whether from those posters or new ones or a combination).

    We should wait for Tom to direct things I think anyway, but maybe it'd be helpful if anyone who is still planning to vote but isn't ready yet could just add a note on this thread to that effect?

    Maybe Tom has already had some communication with some people by private message though, I'm not sure (but if notes were added here, then those of us like you and me who are ready to move on would have more of an idea I guess Titanlux wouldn't we if that happened).

    I don't want to tag a load of people really because like I say it's Tom prerogative to do that, and I'd possibly go missing people out or tagging people that have already voted, by mistake, or something....
     
  20. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    You're right. The thread began Tom and he has to direct. Maybe, if Tom reads this quote he could open another thread for the 1969-70 season so that those of us who want to share information can do so in the most appropriate place.
    If we include this information in other threads, we are at risk of being lost or mixed.
    I will follow this thread for when it resumes.
     
    PDG1978 repped this.
  21. Ariaga II

    Ariaga II Member

    Dec 8, 2018
    Whoever has the strongest drive should just start a thread for next season, and so on. Tom can tally the results when he's interested again. We'll never get anywhere if we're going to wait for single posters.
     
  22. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    You guys feel free to keep it moving, some things have come up that make it hard for me to have time for posting. Hopefully I can jump in every once in a while to vote.
     
    PDG1978 and Titanlux repped this.
  23. Titanlux

    Titanlux Member+

    Barcelona
    Spain
    Nov 27, 2017
    It's a shame because Tom presented the candidates very well and in a very clear way. Between all we can try to continue with this exciting thread.
    I, for my part, have no problem in counting the votes. For the 1968-69 season we have voted 7 people for the Top 23. In total 69 names have appeared, of which 20 have won 3 or more votes. At this moment, 11 players draw with 2 votes. However, there are only 3 holes in the top 23 ... We would have to decide how to undo the draw. In the 1967-68 season, if I remember correctly it was done according to the votes received in the top 11.

    Precisely, I propose to start the next phase: the ideal XI and the top 3:
    My ideal XI (4-2-4?)
    Cudicini; Carlos Alberto, Shesternev, Beckenbauer, Schnellinger; Kuna, Rivera; Best, Cruyff, Muller, Pelé.

    It was difficult the decision to place Beckenbauer in the position of libero, because, as is known, this season he still performed more in the tasks of midfield; Maybe the strongest candidate in the central / libero position was Chumpitaz, but finally I decided on Beckenbauer to be able to place in the center of the field the Czechoslovak Kuna, which is recognized a great season. The other big question I had was the left end position. The strongest candidate for the position would probably be Dzajic, but that would mean leaving Cruyff, Muller or Pelé out of the ideal eleven ... and this could not be ...
    To emphasize that they are left out, unfortunately Tostao, Riva, Prati ...

    Top 3 (very, very, very difficult)
    1º.- Pelé.
    2º.- Rivera.
    3º.- Muller.
     
    Gregoriak and PDG1978 repped this.
  24. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Good work. I'll try to help out if and when I can.

    Maybe the next thing appropriate would be some tagging indeed to bring in more votes for team of the season and also check whether other votes for the 23 might still come in....

    If I try to play the role of Tom here briefly, to keep things consistent with prior threads, I would suggest Pele as left winger would be disallowed, but Beckenbauer as sweeper is certainly fine (for Bayern it was his main position already as @Gregoriak has said).
     
  25. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Since Tom is not around (although might add input occasionally where he feels he wants to and can) currently then for my final slot in my Team of the Season I think it is fair and sensible to ask @PuckVanHeel whether you feel Van Hanegem is ok for 'central midfield' (as opposed to 'attacking midfield' - we are using a 4-2-4 template with one midfielder designated more of a central, if not necessarily holding, midfield player) for this specific 1968/69 season (whether or not that changes for 1969/70 - from a no to a yes maybe)?

    If not I think I'll probably be going back to Murdoch for that position in my XI, like I did for 66/67 too.

    I'm thinking it's not really viable to allow Cruyff as left wing choice either (I don't think we've been doing that in previous seasons IIRC), even though that would have helped @Titanlux keep the same 11 players he had in mind. We are being a bit flexible, but I think Keizer played most games as left winger and Johan was more the support forward type player (central/roaming role) in general. Maybe as our 4-2-4 system can be changeable to 4-3-3 (as per Tom's guidelines - and it becomes increasingly valid over these next years maybe) it would be ok to choose Rivera as AM (but nominally as a central forward) and Cruyff nominally left side attacker in a 4-3-3 (but Titanlux would be needing to pick Pele as number 10, and Rivera as midfield AM choice anyway for those 11 names I suppose)?
     
    Titanlux repped this.

Share This Page