About the Timeline/Season/Year, I agree with Tom's ideas. To me, to this to make sense there must be an unit of measure. Saying this for Brazil, as erratic and problematic that the competitions organization can be, the unit of measure was the whole year and still is the year (january to december - Even if due to a lot of problems some competitions ended on the next year. lol). To split the year (South America) to fit the european season is just as weird as mixing semesters from different european seasons. But since this is a "Best from Europe list" plus a few guests, breaking the south american year may be the most plausible/acceptable measure in terms of coherence (even though I do not like it. lol ).
If I list my chosen players according to level of confidence in including them, with consideration also to how feasible it might potentially seem that I'd pick them out among the top choices, then for 1966/67 worldwide I think I come up with something like this (having continued to view and research a bit more): Johan Cruyff Florian Albert Jimmy Johnstone Bobby Charlton George Best Sandro Mazzola Tostao Tommy Gemmell Eusebio Gianni Rivera Dragan Dzajic Pele Gerd Muller Franz Beckenbauer Ivo Viktor Pedro Rocha Alan Ball Billy McNeill Igor Chislenko Denis Law Ferenc Bene Ademir Da Guia Carlos Alberto Obviously if using 1967 calendar year for some leagues, I had been thinking of Gerson potentially up around top 6 even initially (but re: level of confidence might still have doubts more than for others anyway) - however for 66/67 he's more out of my mind than Tostao would be using 1967. Lubanski I had as a borderline candidate either way, while I definitely feel including the Copa America of early 1967 goes in Rocha's favour - so in essence adding 2 South Americans and taking out only 1 if switching from 1967 to 1966/67 resulted in Lubanski missing out in my list eventually that way.
Anyway, even if I didn't change anything re: my list, I'd still be interested in further takes on South America (whether someone tries to make a call for the 1966/67 period or just summarises views about 1967 as a whole but I guess detailing things for each half of that). From the candidates, based on footage&story in combination then I guess Dirceu Lopes might have been next in mind if I was looking to add more players (so in theory might be if I drop any others out). But msioux's info re: Figueroa and Julio Melendez for example was interesting too. I did check out the Perfumo vs Nacional video on YouTube which was interesting but didn't sway me towards putting him in based on it (I understand why he's getting votes though). In general the Brazilian clubs weren't so keen on participating in the Copa Libertadores in this timeframe it seems....
Are we happy on the timeframe for this one? If so, is it worth collating the votes and picking a top 3. We might be ready to move on to the next season soon.
Ok, I've double-timed my reading for 66-67, and am now ready to present my choices! After careful, meticulous and exhaustive research,this is my final 23: Gemmell, Tommy (Celtic, Scotland) Johnstone, Jimmy (Celtic, Scotland) Best, George (Manchester United, Northern Ireland) Charlton, Bobby (Manchester United, England) Law, Denis (Manchester United, Scotland) Bremner, Billy (Leeds United, Scotland) Ball, Alan (Everton, England) Beckenbauer, Franz (Bayern Munich, West Germany) Muller, Gerd (Bayern Munich, West Germany) Albert, Florian (Ferencvaros, Hungary) Farkas, Janos (Vasas, Hungary) Chislenko, Igor (Dynamo Moscow, Soviet Union) Facchetti, Giancinto (Internazionale, Italy) Mazzola, Sandro (Internazionale, Italy) Cruyff, Johan (Ajax, Netherlands) Viktor, Ivo (Dukla Prague, Czechoslovakia) Eusebio (Benfica, Portugal) Pirri (Real Madrid, Spain) Tostao (Cruzeiro, Brazil) Rocha, Pedro (Penarol, Uruguay) Spencer, Alberto (Penarol, Ecuador) Joya, Juan (Penarol, Peru) Nöldner, Jurgen (Vorwärts Berlin, GDR) -I had a really hard time figuring out who my winner is, but eventually decided to stick with Albert, even with the change of timeline. Leslie Vernon in the August WS makes a pretty good case for him. Basically he's reached a whole new level and is the Hungarian Di Stefano now. This improvement is just in time to fit our imaginary voting date. -The downside of choosing incomplete seasons is starting to show immediately. I have Albert in based on his 67 and Farkas based on his 66. Farkas wasn't doing well early-67. Still, this is a season where you can probably make a case for most players to NOT be included, so Farkas makes it in based on his 66-performances. This brings me to my next batch of players, who aren't even nominated, I see. -The Penarol guys. Since we changed the timeline, the Intercontinental Cup is now part of our timeline (or always was?). Besides the obvious EC-final, Penarol vs. Real and England vs. Scotland were the most high-profile events of the season, so that's reflected in my nominations. Apparently Penarol started sucking soon afterwards, but they make it in based on this achievement. -Like I said, England vs. Scotland was the other big result. The Scottish big three were the "thoroughbreds" with "transient brilliance", Law, Bremner and Baxter. This sounds like Ballon-contender talk to me. I dropped Baxter because I didn't want to overdose on Scotsmen, but this trio clearly deserve to be in over most of the Celtic squad. I didn't read anything that made me want to include any Celts besides the obvious two. It'll be interesting to see if this view on the team changes later on, like around 1970. -Now for the team no one has noted so far in any way: the bad Germans. The DDR had an undefeated streak during this time. Yes, it was mostly against second-stringers, but undefeated is undefeated, and WS noted this achievement. Erler and Nöldner deserve at least a honorable mention, though I picked Nöldner all the way to my 23. Is it me or does the DDR not get any respect from the online community in general? I mean, I know the whole contraption was a tumor on Europe's side, but they had a pretty decent team going on in the late 60s and 70s. I guess humanity has completely wiped this dystopian hellhole from collective memory. -I previously said Tostao seemed more like a star of tomorrow than a ready-made Ballon-candidate, but I felt I needed a token Brazuca here, and he's the best choice. He can sneak in with the other young guns Cruyff and Muller.
Let’s add some structure by voting top 3 then: 1. Johnstone, Europa cup winner, also key in deciding away match vs Rangers for the championship. 2. Facchetti, Europa cup runner up, key in semifinals vs Red flag. 3. José Urruzmendi, Copa América winner (3 goals in 5 matches), Copa Libertadores runner up (4 goals in 5 matches)
In SA, conventionally a season is matched with the chronological year: Jan-dec, even when some years, some leagues ended his season the next year (jan-feb). I understood Tom's idea that on this partícular year, Copa América (Jan 67) was played closer to the end of season (dec 66) than start of season (apr 67). At that time, usually most SA countries really started their leagues well into the present year, playing before that, the pre-season, consistent in 2-3 months of friendlies
So the Intercontinental Cup of 1966 is part of the 1966-67 season for Real Madrid and for Peñarol as well? I understood that for South America, it was the Intercontinental Cup of 1967, unless the criteria had changed. I think we should clarify the criteria so that we all have the same timeline. I get the feeling that our votes are based on different time intervals ...
I'd hope we can come to a satisfactory agreement, where all participants in the thread contributed their idea of the 23 players they'd select. I feel like Peru for example wouldn't need to be changing a whole lot from his original vote, if switching to 1967 worldwide. I obviously took Gerson out of my selection, and it could be that Peru and Titanlux would be thinking of doing the same (although it'd be their call of course). In the end I think I actually only change one thing in my 23 (Tostao for Gerson - I'd probably have concluded that Lubanksi would miss out anyway with Rocha making it in) and one thing in my Team of the Year vote (Rocha, considering being integral to various team success during the 1966/67 period, contributing goals while being a skilled playmaker too, for Rivera in the midfield). It's obviously hard with limited footage, and limited written info too (but watching what is available as much as possible is interesting and entertaining), but I've tried to go with what seem like the best quality players that year and the ones that made big contributions to success at crucial moments, in combination. So I think I am settled on this finally now (after making several posts) if we are using 1966/67 and fitting the SA and EE schedule around the sort of August to August timeframe (writing as if I am going back in time, as the central England correspondant!): 1 - Johan Cruyff - The player of the future is already the player of the present. The young Dutch prodigy has brought many goals, assists, skills and moments of pleasure to the up-and-coming Ajax team. He has shown he can already make a great impact outside of his home country too, as Hungary and Liverpool for example can testify too. All in all, my choice as the player that has been as good and impressive as anyone this year. 2 - Florian Albert - A fantastic creator from his increasingly involved role, and still a fluent goalscorer too, as evident in the Hungarian league but also shown by him topping the goalscoring charts in the Fairs Cup. A talisman for club and country in both aspects, and a deserved member of the podium here. 3 - Jimmy Johnstone - Jinking winger integral to the huge success of Glasgow Celtic. A master at dribbling and requiring attention of multiple opponents, and also a clutch goalscorer this season, particularly with his composed and cheeky finish against Dukla in the European Cup, and his impressive second of two against Rangers in the big Scottish championship game, scored by cutting in and finding the top corner with his wrong leg! A top 10 would be made up with these players too: Bobby Charlton George Best Tostao Sandro Mazzola Pedro Rocha Tommy Gemmell Gianni Rivera And a further, unlucky but lucky, 13, receive a vote among the 23 allowed in this process: Eusebio Pele Gerd Muller Franz Beckenbauer Ivo Viktor Ademir Da Guia Dragan Dzajic Billy McNeill Igor Chislenko Denis Law Alan Ball Carlos Alberto Ferenc Bene My vote for Team of the Season, in a 4-3-3 formation, includes these players: 1 - Viktor 2 - C.Alberto 3 - Gemmell 4 - Beckenbauer 5 - McNeill 6 - Bobby Charlton 7 - Johnstone 8 - Rocha 9 - Albert 10 - Best 11 - Cruyff
Sorry, to clarify my thoughts again - I think maybe the change for 1966/67 worldwide (as opposed to 1966 for some leagues) in terms of my 23 could well have been Bene for Gerson actually, as Tostao could well have made it in anyway too. Whether in reality so few changes would be about right it's hard to know, but I didn't feel I'd be inclined to be changing things a whole amount in this exercise from what I could see and gather. Not to say others might not potentially change quite a bit more. And re: my Team of the Year I felt that midfield was representative of my choices, even if certainly erring on the attacking side. I still feel it's close enough to how things were (Best I think may have switched between roving central midfielder, and winger, depending on whether 4-3-3 or 4-2-4 was used - I'm not sure it's as simple as saying it started off with the former having been like that in 1965/66 and then there was a switch to the latter which was retained for 1967/68....but it could be - we just don't have enough footage or a clear enough narrative to know I think!; it did seem to me re: the MOTD highlights, as posted by Puck, that it was probably 4-3-3 vs Burnley early in the season, but possibly 4-2-4 (the caption did suggest so too) with Best nominally from right wing, later on away at West Brom. I'm not sure whether I'd put Best to Charlton's right and Rocha to the left or vice versa if I had to do a sketch - in a real team maybe they'd be interchangeable and move around quite a bit anyway (ditto if Rivera was in there).
Exactly, if the timeline is modified, my Top 23 would also look somewhat modified. For example, Spencer and Joya would be part of it. But I still do not know if the criteria that Tom exposed at the beginning of the thread are valid or have been changed. Meanwhile, I will leave my Top 23 as I published at the time. For me, in particular, it would be very difficult for me to divide the South American competitions into two parts. It is much easier to apply the calendar year. I agree fully with the first approaches of Tom.
@PDG1978 I don't think Beckenbauer played as a defender in 67. But I guess 3-4-3 was not unheard of at the time.
I think he did for Bayern (and is doing in the footage I have looked at) but I assume for Germany he continued to play in midfield. @Gregoriak has a good idea of the progression I think (just like RoyoftheRovers knew about Best playing as box to box midfielder in a 4-3-3) from what I recall. wm mentions Beckenbauer as defender in his post too, but if you did have a mis-conception about that it'd not be an unusual one among football fans I think (I'd have had it too originally). Maybe with Beckenbauer playing it becomes somewhat of a 3-4-3 anyway though lol (maybe that's suit McNeill ok in a normal team from what I've seen as he fares well re: positioning/tackling/blocking/heading but could use Beckenbauer's pace to call on in certain situations I think! - Carlos Alberto and Gemmell were both pretty attacking although solid I suppose and as you can see I didn't pick DMs - but yeah it's an all-star XI not a select XI anyway). With as Puck pointed out, Beckenbauer not yet accruing a lot of assists from his defender role, it might suggest I think that he was relatively cautious in it - I know Facchetti with his attacking runs was held as an inspiration for him but maybe it was a gradual process and I guess his game gained in subtlety through the years too so he probably hasn't mastered the libero role at this stage. In a select XI maybe I would pick him in midfield, given his play there in the 1966 WC.
As you said - sweeper for Bayern, central midfielder for Germany. This is how Kicker rated him in summer 1967 in his two roles: 1967 World Class [07/67] [#1 Midfielder] 1967 World Class [07/67] [#1 Central Defender] And in December 1967: 1967 Internat. Cl. [12/67] [#2 Midfielder] 1967 Internat. Cl. [12/67] [#3 Central Defender]
I think going August to August should be the timeline moving forward. With Argentina and Brazil splitting their seasons in multiple competitions this change is more viable as no individual competitions will be split. But moving into the past it will become more problematic. This season I think there are a lot of implications for voting and I think everyone should revote. Below are the most important changes from moving the season we are looking at. Most of Europe nothing has changed. The only changes will be for South America and Eastern Europe. Brazil: Formerly we voted on a season that contained the 1967 TRGP, 1967 state championships, 1967 Taca Brasil, and 1967 Libertadores. Now the season will contain the 1966 state championships, the 1966 Taca Brasil, the 1967 TRGP, and the 1967 Copa Libertadores. As for international matches all three matches against Uruguay are still part of the season, while the sinlge match vs Chile is out. No new matches are included. The change from the 1967 to 1966 state championships means Botafogo and Santos lose their title winning campaigns, and Bangu and Palmieras gain title winning campaigns. The exchange of the 1966 for the 1967 Taca Brasil means Carzeiro's famous victory over Santos is in while Palmieras' 1967 victory is out. Effects on candidates: Ademir da Guia (Palmieras) Despite losing one of the two national titles in this season I think his case is strengthened. Now he has won the state championship and the TRGP, the two biggest most competitive tournaments Palmieras entered. The Taca Brasil win in 1967 was less impressive to me because of its abbreviated nature and poor opponents defeated. I really think he needs to be in this season, even more so with the new construction. Dudu (Palmieras) Same changes apply to him as Ademir, although I doubt this will push him into many top 23s. Cesar Maluco (Palmieras) This change actually hurts his case, as his great goal in the Taca Brasil final is gone, andf he was not playing/starting for Palmieras during the 1966 Paulista, for what reason I do not know. Pele (Santos) I believe his case is even poorer now. We exchange the 1967 Paulista which Santos won (18 games 17 goals) for the 1966 Paulista where Santos finished third (only played 14 of the 28 games scoring 13 goals). The 1966 Taca Brasil is added to the resume for Santos. Santos got a pass to the semifinals where they defeated Nautical before famously losing in the final to Cruzeiro in two legs. This resume combined with not international appearances I do not see a good case for him. Edu (Santos) As with Pele his case is hurt by the change Carlos Alberto (Santos) As with Pele his case is hurt by the change Roberto Dias (Sao Paulo, Brazil) He still played the three internationals vs Uruguay but impressively team defensive perfomance in the 1967 Paulista is exchanged for one in 1966 which on the surface is not as good. Rivellino (Corinthians) The good TRGP is still there and that was his best asset as a candidiate. Paulo Cézar Lima (Botafogo, Brazil) No reason for the Botafogo players to be considered in my opinion. Their very poor TRGP remains, and the title winning 1967 Carioca is replaced by a very disappointing 1966 Carioca where they finished 4th and 3rd in the two turn system and where never close to winners. Also all the Botafogo players lost their international appearance vs Chile. Gerson (Botafogo, Brazil) No reason for the Botafogo players to be considered in my opinion. Their very poor TRGP remains, and the title winning 1967 Carioca is replaced by a very disappointing 1966 Carioca where they finished 4th and 3rd in the two turn system and where never close to winners. Also all the Botafogo players lost their international appearance vs Chile. Manga (Botafogo, Brazil) No reason for the Botafogo players to be considered in my opinion. Their very poor TRGP remains, and the title winning 1967 Carioca is replaced by a very disappointing 1966 Carioca where they finished 4th and 3rd in the two turn system and where never close to winners. Also all the Botafogo players lost their international appearance vs Chile. Jairzinho (Botafogo) No reason for the Botafogo players to be considered in my opinion. Their very poor TRGP remains, and the title winning 1967 Carioca is replaced by a very disappointing 1966 Carioca where they finished 4th and 3rd in the two turn system and where never close to winners. Also all the Botafogo players lost their international appearance vs Chile. Paulo Borges (Bangu, Brazil) He needs some serious consideration in my opinion, even more so than with the previous schedule. In the 1966 Carioca Bangu are champions and he is the leagues top scorer. He is capped in all three games vs Uruguay and scores a brace in one game.Bangu also had the best TRGP of any Rio team. Tostao (Cruzeiro, Brazil) He needs consideration for top three with the changes in my opinion. The change from 1967 to 1966 state league is not important, as Cruz win both and Tostao is top scorer in both. The poor 1967 Taca Brasil is exchanged for one of the most famous victories in Brazil football history, the 1966 victory over Santos, ending Pele's 5 consecutive State titles, and leading to Tostao being crowned the new king of Brazil. Cruz defeat good teams on the way to the final in Gremio and Fluminenese. In the final they defeat Santos in only two legs, winning home and away in spectacular fashion. The first game they go up 5-0 at half time and win 6-2. The second game in Sao Paulo they go down 2-0, and instead of excepting a third game to decide the time (no aggregate score was used) they come back and win 3-2. Tostao was great especially in the final game in Sao Paulo. Please watch the highlights, they are spectacular. He season now includes: dominant state title win, historic national title win over Santos, good showing in the TRGP, good showing in the Libertadortes missing the final by one point, and playing all three games vs Uruguay. Dirceu Lopes (Cruzeiro, Brazil) No one included him in their 23 with the previous timeline, I think this should change with the new one. All the changes apply to him the same way they did to Tostao. In the games vs Santos he may have even better than Tostao. In the 6-2 home win he was unstoppable, scoring three goals and getting a great assist. Please watch the highlights on youtube, the quality of his play was exceptional. Repeatedly dribbling through Santos with ease. Scores in the second leg as well. Plays all three games vs Uruguay and scores an excellent goal there as well. Wilson Piazza (Cruzeiro, Brazil) As with Dirceu Lopes he was not included by anyone but his case is stronger now. He famously marked Pele in the final of the Taca Brasil. Everaldo (Gremio, Brazil) Candidacy not majorly effected. Alcindo (Gremio, Brazil) Candidacy not majorly effected. New Candidates: The two players I would mention are players that took Cesar's place as the main scorers for Palmieras. Both Rinaldo and Peruvian Alberto Gallardo. Both wingers who scored freely during the 1966 Paulista and 1967 TRGP victories and have good reputations as internationally capped players for their countries. Argentina: The season no longer includes the 1967 Nacional Tournament, only the the 1967 Metropolitano. We also add the second half on the 1966 season which was played one one tournament. For international matches the 1967 South American Championship is added, where Argentina finished second to Uruguay losing on the final game of the season. Argentina fielded its strongest team with the exception of Racing players who were excluded due to there exhaustive Libertadores schedule. The 1967 Intercontinental Cup is not longer on the Resume for Racing. Effects on candidates: Roberto Perfumo (Racing, Argentina) I think his case is even stronger now, and he could push for top three. Racing lose the 1967 Intercontinental Cup win, but the matches were so marred in controversy they were not a major positive on the resume. The title winning 1966 season conclusion is added. Now Racing won the 1966 Domestic competition and nearly won the 1967 Metropolitano having the best record before losing in the final. The 1967 Nacioanl is no longer on the resume where Racing burned out and preformed poorly. Every competityion they entered in this new season they won or nearly won. Humberto Maschio (Racing) Same applies as to Perfumo, he is the key offensive player for all three successful Racing competitions this season. Juan Roman Veron (Estudiantes) Case slightly less impressive, but the 1967 Metropolitano win is still there. Luis Artime (Independiente) Loses something important in Independiente's 1967 Nacional win where he was top scorer, but gains the 1967 SAC where he was top scorer for Argentina with 5 goals in 5 games. In the 1966 domestic season, the second half of which is now part of this season, Independiente finished 6th with Artime scoring 23 goals in 30 games and was the leagues top scorer by 5 goals. Overall I would say his resume improves even with losing the 1967 Nacional title. Raul Bernao (Argentina, Independiente) Similar to Artime an overall improved resume despite losing domestic title. Played in every game for Argentina in the SAC and scored two goals. Uruguay: Major changes for Uruguay based players. My major problem is I can't find information on when the domestic championships are played so I do not know which competition, 1966 or 1967, or part of both are in consideration. Nacional won the 1966 competition, while Penarol won in 1967. The 1967 Libertadores is still part of the conversation. We have also now added the 1966 Intercontinental Cup for the Penarol players and the 1967 SAC. This will greatly improve the resumes of a number of Uruguay players. All five of the other international matches still remain (three draws vs Brazil, and two wins vs Peru). Effects on candidates: Pedro Rocha (Penarol, Uruguay) Should have major consideration for top three now. In addition to his 5 games and 5 goals vs Brazil and Peru, we add winning the 1967 SAC and scoring three goals including the tournament winner in the final vs Argentina. Also add the 1967 Intercontinental Cup to the mix where Penarol made a huge statement defeating Real Madrid 2-0 both home and away. Jose Urruzmendi (Nacional, Uruguay) Significantly improved resume. In addition to the excellent 1967 Libertadores, add the 1967 SAC where he played every game and scored 3 goals. New Candidates: Alberto Spencer: I did not include him before despite being top scorer and champion in the 1967 domestic competition, because Penarol were not successful in the 1967 Libertadores and he did not have any international play to boost him. He was the star of the 1966 Intercontinental Cup, scoring three of Penarol's four goals and winning the penalty for the fourth. Some of the goals showed excellent quality as well. Highlights and full matches are available on youtube. Juan Joya: Similar case to Spencer, but not quite as important in the 1966 IC. Ladislao Mazurkiewicz: He is another major consideration for addition. He was great in the IC and the SAC, both of which his teams won. In these very high profile tournaments he allowed 2 goals in 7 games and showed excellent form. Made some really good sdaves in the footage I have seen vs Real Madrid. Other South American Nations: Héctor Chumpitaz (Universitario, Peru) Candidacy not effected. He won both the 1966 and 67 domestic titles and has the 67 Libertadores still present, the major point for his resume. Pedro Araya (Universidad de Chile, Chile) All the Chile players resumes improve with the addition of the 1967 SAC where they played well, including a 2-2 draw with Urugauy, finishing 3rd place. Leonel Sánchez (Universidad de Chile, Chile) All the Chile players resumes improve with the addition of the 1967 SAC where they played well, including a 2-2 draw with Urugauy, finishing 3rd place. Also add Ruben Marcos to the mix. He has the same domestic resume as the two players above and was considered one of the best players at the 1967 SAC where he scored 3 goals despite being a combative central midfielder. Hungary: The domestic season is split, with the second half of the 66 season and first half of the 67 season included. Also the international matches counted changes. In the first season timeline they were 5-0-1. Now they are 6-1-0 improving their record and making them undefeated. They added 2-2 at NET, 6-0 vs DEN, 4-2 vs FRA, and 3-1 vs AUS. They lost 3-1 at AUS, 3-1 vs DDR, and 0-1 at DDR. Effects on candidates: Janos Farkas (Vasas SC, Hungary) Big improvement in an already good resume. Boosts him enough to muddy the waters further for the top three in my opinion. Previously scored 5 goals in 6 games for the national team, with the new timeline now scores 9 goals in 7 games, including 4 vs France and 3 vs Austria. Also the second half of the 1966 domestic season is included where he won the title with Vasas and was the leagues top scorer with 25 goals in 26 games. Kalam Meszoly (Vasas Budapest, Hungary) Big improvement in resume and now a much better contender for the 23. Previous only played half the internationals as he was not capped late in 1967. Now plays in all 7 and scored three goals, including in both match vs Netherlands in Euro Qualifying. Also add the econd half of the 1966 domestic season is included where he won the title with Vasas. Florian Albert (Ferencvaros, Hungary) Loses the second half of the title winning season in 1967, but the big win vs Ujpest I posted the video of is still in the new season and Ferencvaros built most of their lead that would win them the title in the first half of the 67 season. In the 66 domestic season Ferencvaros finished second to Vasas and Albert scored 24 goals in 25 games. For the national team he goes from scoring 1 goal in 6 games to scoring 3 goals in 7 games. Probably a slight improvement in international resume as he orchestrated the high scoring wins late in 1966. Gyula Rákosi (Ferencvaros, Hungary) Similar resume. Ferenc Bene (Ujpest, Hungary) Still scored 3 goals in 6 games , just different games were played now. Missed the big win vs France. Scored 24 in 26 in the 1966 season where Ujpest finished 4th. probably a slight decline in overall resume. Soviet: The Record for the soviet national team was previously 12-2-2. Now it is now 9-1-2. Important matches gained from change: 2-1 at YUG, 0-1 at ITA. Important matches lost from change: 2-1 at BUL, 0-1 at AUS, 1-3 at NET, 2-2 at ENG. The domestic seasons are split as with Hungary, with the 1966 domestic season also won by Dynamo Kiev as was the 1967 one. So no realy change theri except maybe a boot to Dynamo Kiev players as they were the best in two seasons now instead of just one. Effects on candidates: Eduard Streltsov (Torpedo Moscow, Soviet Union) Previously played 12 of 16 games and scored 6 goals for the national team, now played 10 of 12 games and scored 3 goals. Overall not a major change to his resume here in my opinion, his best games was vs Scotland which is still present. add the second half of the 19656 season where he scored 12 goals in 31 games and his club finished 6th. Similar resume, no major changes. Valery Voronin (Torpedo Moscow, Soviet Union) Previously played 10 of 16 games and scored 0 goals for the national team, now played 8 of 12 games and scored 0 goals. Similar resume, no major changes. Yozhef Sabo (Dynamo Kiev, Soviet Union) Similar resume, no major changes played all the important international matches and was double champion. Anatoliy Byshovets (Dynamo Kiev, Soviet Union) Probably a slightly improved resume as in the 1966 domestic season he had a better scoring record and was one off top scorer. Previously played 9 of 16 games and scored 3 goals for the national team, now played 9 of 12 games and scored 3 goals. Igor Chislenko (Dynamo Moscow, Soviet Union) Slightly reduced resume in my opinion. Previously played 13 of 16 games and scored 10 goals for the national team, now played 10 of 12 games and scored 9 goals. Still has the 7 straight internationals scored in to his name, but loses the brace vs England. That was what was pushing him toward top three consideration in my mind, now probably short of that but still good candidate for 23. Lev Yashin (Dynamo Moscow, Soviet Union) Similar resume, no major changes Murtaz Khurtsilava (Dinamo Tbilisi, Soviet Union) Similar resume, no major changes Albert Shesternyov (CSKA Moscow, Soviet Union) Similar resume, no major changes
Please everyone read the post above and then post your new top 23s. I want everyone to post a new list below to help me recount votes, even if some of you don't make changes because you voted on the 66-67 season already. I will post my new 23 tonight. @Gregoriak @PDG1978 @annoyedbyneedoflogin @Titanlux @msioux75 @Ariaga II @comme @ManiacButcher @PuckVanHeel @Perú FC @wm442433 @peterhrt
My new list of 23. Albert, Florian (Ferencvaros, Hungary) Artime, Luis (Independiente, Argentina) Beckenbauer, Franz (Bayern Munich, West Germany) Best, George (Manchester United, Northern Ireland) Charlton, Bobby (Manchester United, England) Chislenko, Igor (Dynamo Moscow, Soviet Union) Cruyff, Johan (Ajax, Netherlands) da Guia, Ademir (Palmieras) Dirceu Lopes (Cruzeiro, Brazil) Eusebio (Benfica, Portugal) Facchetti, Giancinto (Internazionale, Italy) Farkas, Janos (Vasas, Hungary) Gemmell, Tommy (Celtic, Scotland) Johnstone, Jimmy (Celtic, Scotland) Law, Denis (Manchester United, Scotland) Mazurkiewicz, Ladislao (Penarol, Uruguay) Mazzola, Sandro (Internazionale, Italy) Muller, Gerd (Bayern Munich, West Germany) Murdoch, Bobby (Celtic, Scotland) Perfumo, Roberto (Racing, Argentina) Rocha, Pedro (Penarol, Uruguay) Tostao (Cruzeiro, Brazil) Viktor, Ivo (Dukla Prague, Czechoslovakia)
Toughest to leave out were Chumpitaz, Spencer, Borges, Waldo, Popluhar, Penev, Riva, Streltsov, Byshovets, Meszoly, Wolter, Hurst, Ball, Bremner, Greaves, Simpson, Lennox, and McNeill
I'v never come across his name in the thread, but if it's august-august, Helmut Haller should be considered imo.
I will stick with this Tom, because I had made it basically on the same basis as you've now confirmed of course. As I've mentioned though Dirceu Lopes was really close to getting in - I felt though that although I'm using his general reputation to convince me the fact that Carlos Alberto is a defender and I'd be light on them if I took them out was a reason to keep him in (although I'm guessing we could nominate players who don't make our own 23 or the consensus one either when it comes to Team of the Season - otherwise defensive options might be limited). The fact Ball topped the Buchan poll, and Bene did have an impressive resume generally speaking with Ujpest and the Hungarian NT, also led to me retaining them. As an aside, not relevant to the selection, I did notice that 1966/1967 seems to be where Jairzinho makes a switch between playing as winger for Botafogo and playing as one of their strikers/central attackers. https://brfut.blogspot.com/2009/04/rio-sao-paulo-1966.html https://brfut.blogspot.com/2009/08/campeonato-carioca-de-1967-segundo.html I can write out (or copy and paste from your original posts with clubs/nations) my chosen players in alphabetical order for you later though if it helps.
(I meant in the discussions, unless I did not see but yes I had noticed his presence in the pre-lists you made)
1966 season started after the WC. Mar 67 issue has two rounds left, so looks like it was played almost in the European calendar? The more important part is what I mentioned above, though. After the IC Penarol turned into crap. Like really bad. I'm talking not being able to beat Salvadoran and Ecuadorian teams on their tours bad. They also played a hexagonal in Chile with the big 3 Chilean teams, Santos and Vasas, and failed to win a single game [Jun 67 issue]. So basically if people are going to vote for the Penarol players, it's on the basis of that one high-profile tie, and not because they had a great season at this time.