BigSoccer's Players of the Season: 1907-1908

Additions in blue.


ARG-URU 2-1, 15.8.1907, Buenos Aires, Attendance: 7,000
goals: Brown, Jacobs / Zibechi

Football League, Aston Villa-Manchester United 1-4, 2.9.1907, Birmingham, Attendance: 15,000
goals: Hampton (pen) / Wall, Meredith 2, Bannister
best players: Bache / Meredith, Roberts, Duckworth

Scottish League, Celtic-Falkirk 3-2, 7.9.1907, Celtic Park, Glasgow, Attendance: 25,000
goals: McMenemy, Quinn, Bennett / Mitchell 2
best players: Bennett

URU-ARG 1-2, 6.10.1907, Montevideo, Attendance: 9,000
goals: Zumaran / Malbran 2

BOH-HUN 5-3, 6.10.1907, Stadion Slavii, Prague, Attendance: 4,000
goals: 0:1 (4') Gorszky, 1:1 (15') Košek, 1:2 (16') Szednicsek, 1:3 (25') Weisz, 2:3 (35') Košek, 3:3 (62') Bělka, 4:3 (86') Košek, 5:3 (88') Bělka
best players: ?

Football League, Aston Villa-Manchester City 2-2, 9.11.1907, Birmingham, Attendance: 25,000
goals: Hampton 2 (1 pen) / Thornley 2
best players: Hampton / Thornley

Football League, Manchester United-Manchester City 3-1, 21.12.1907, Manchester, Attendance: 40,000
goals: Wall, Sandy Turnbull 2 / Eadie
best players: Sandy Turnbull, Meredith

ENG*-NED 12-2, 21.12.1907, Darlington, Attendance: 10,000
goals: Woodward 3, Stapley 5, Bell 3, Raine / Ruffelse 2
best players: ?
The match is a full international for Netherlands, but not for England, who played with their amateur side.


British Home Championship, IRL-ENG 1-3, 15.2.1908, Belfast, Solitude Ground, Attendance: 22,600
goals: Hannon 13' / Hilsdon 7', 83', Woodward 80'
best players: Harris / Rutherford
http://www.englandfootballonline.com/Seas1900-39/1907-08/M0092Ire1908.html

FA Cup 3rd round, Aston Villa-Manchester United 0-2, 22.2.1908, Birmingham, Attendance: 43,000
goals: Wall, Sandy Turnbull
best players: Meredith

Football League-Scottish League 2-0, 29.2.1908, venue Birmingham , Attendance: 14,000
goals: Warren, Hilsdon (pen)
best players: Warren, Wedlock, Greenhalgh, Crompton, Hardy (gk), Hilsdon / Bennett, Thomson

FA Cup Quarter-final, Fulham-Manchester United 2-1, 7.3.1908, Fulham, Attendance: 41,000
goals: Harrison 2 / Jimmy Turnbull
best players: Morrison, Ross / Sandy Turnbull

British Home Championship, SCO-WAL 2-1, 7.3.1908, Dens Park, Dundee, Attendance: 18,000
goals: 0-1 W.Jones (30), 1-1 Bennett (60), 2-1 Lennie (87)
best players: Thomson / Roose (gk)

Football League, Manchester City-Aston Villa 3-2, 7.3.1908, Manchester, Attendance: 28,000
goals: Webb, Dorsett 2 / Bache, Reeves
best players: Kelso, Buchan, Dorsett / Lyons, Wallace, Hampton

British Home Championship, IRL-SCO 0-5, 14.3.1908, Dalymount Park, Dublin, Attendance: 10,000
goals: Quinn 4, Galt
best players: Quinn

British Home Championship, WAL-ENG 1-7, 16.3.1908, Wrexham, Racecourse Ground, Attendance: 7,000
goals: Davies / Woodward 3, Hilsdon 2, Windridge, Wedlock
best players: / Crompton, Rutherford, Woodward
http://www.englandfootballonline.com/Seas1900-39/1907-08/M0093Wal1908.html
Leigh Roose was charged by Vivian Woodward (one source states George Hilsdon) after fifteen (or twenty) minutes, and after suffering concussion, he retired and Charlie Morris took over in goal. Roose did return, but only for a short time as he was suffering. Teddy Hughes at this time injured his back (or he had a bad cold) and both he and Roose retired after 25 minutes. According to The Athletic News, Woodward had offered the Welsh team the opportunity to bring on two substitutes. As Wales were now playing with nine men, Davies came into goal 'shortly after the restart' and became the first ever international substitute.

ENG*-FRA 12-0, 23.3.1908, Royal Park, London, Attendance: 6,000
goals: Jordan 6, Woodward 3, Raine, Berry, Hawkes
The match is a full international for France, but not for England, who played with their amateur side.

FA Cup Semi-final, Newcastle United-Fulham 6-0, 28.3.1908, Anfield, Liverpool, Attendance: 59,000
goals: Appleyard, Howie 2, Rutherford 3
best players: Rutherford

FA Cup Semi-final, Wolverhampton Wanderers-Southampton 2-0, 28.3.1908, Stamford Bridge, London, Attendance: 45,000
goals: Radford, Hedley
best players: Collins /

British Home Championship, SCO-ENG 1-1, 4.4.1908, Glasgow, Hampden Park, Attendance: 121,500
goals: Wilson 27' / Windridge 75'
best players: McBride (gk), A Wilson, Jimmy Sharp / Crompton, Bridgett, Windridge, Warren
http://www.englandfootballonline.com/Seas1900-39/1907-08/M0094Sco1908.html
A new world record attendance.
Newcastle United FC's Peter McWilliam was the original named left-half, his place going to the named reserve, Johnnie May, on 4 April. McWilliam had an 'injured limb'.

HUN-BOH 5-2, 8.4.1908, Budapest, Millenaris Sporttelep, Attendance: 8,500
goals: Károly 3, Schlosser 2 / Bělka 2
best players: ?

British Home Championship, WAL-IRL 0-1, 11.4.1908, Aberdare, Attendance: 6,000
goals: Sloan
best players: / Scott (gk)

Football League, Manchester City-Manchester United 0-0, 18.4.1908, Manchester, Attendance: 40,000
goals: ?
best players: Smith (gk), Eadie / Meredith, Wall, Roberts

Scottish Cup Final, Celtic-St. Mirren 5-1, 18.4.1908, Hampden Park, Glasgow, Attendance: 55,000
goals: Bennett 2, Hamilton, Somers, Quinn / Cunningham
best players: Bennett, Somers, Quinn /

BEL-ENG* (England Amateurs) 2-8, 18.4.1908, Brussels, Attendance: 4,000
goals: Deveen 2 / Woodward 3, Stapley 2, Berry 2, Hardman

GER-ENG* (England Amateurs) 1-5, 20.4.1908, Mariendorf, Attendance: 6,000
goals: Förderer / Woodward 2, Stapley 2, Purnell

Football League, Manchester United-Aston Villa 1-2, 20.4.1908, Manchester, Attendance: 10,000
goals: Picken / Hall 2 (1 pen)
best players: Meredith / Hall

FA Cup Final, Wolverhampton Wanderers-Newcastle United 3-1, 25.4.1908, Crystal Palace, London, Attendance: 75,000
goals: Hunt 40', Hedley 43', Harrison 85' / Sharp 45'
best players: Harrison, Wooldridge, Hunt, Hedley / Veitch, Gardner, Howie, McWilliam
Wolves were a Second Division team.

NED-BEL 3-1, 26.4.1908, Rotterdam, Attendance: 6,000
goals: Snethlage, Thomée 2 / Saeys

FA Charity Shield, Manchester United-Queens Park Rangers 1-1, 27.4.1908, Stamford Bridge, London, Attendance: 6,000
goals: Meredith 60' / Cannon 11'
best players: Meredith / Shaw (gk)

Scottish League, Falkirk-Celtic 1-1, 27.4.1908, Falkirk, Attendance: 10,000
goals: Skene / Semple
best players: Simpson /

Slavia Praha-Manchester United 0-2, 11.5.1908, Prague, Attendance: ?
goals: ?
best players: ?

Charity Cup Final, Celtic-Queen’s Park 3-0, 30.5.1908, Hampden Park, Glasgow, Attendance: 30,000
goals: McMenemy 2, Quinn
best players: McMenemy, Hay / Sim

AUT-ENG 1-6, 6.6.1908, Vienna, Cricketer Platz, Attendance: 3,500
goals: Schmieger / Windridge 2, Hilsdon 2, Woodward, Bridgett
best players: ?

AUT-ENG 1-11, 8.6.1908, Vienna, Hohe Warte, Attendance: 5,000
goals: Hirschl / Woodward 4, Bradshaw 3, Windridge , Rutherford, Warren, Bridgett
best players: ?

HUN-ENG 0-7, 10.6.1908, Budapest, Millenaris Sporttelep, Attendance: 6,500
goals: Hilsdon, Windridge, Woodward, Rutherford
best players: ?

BOH-ENG 0-4, 13.6.1908, Prague, Letna Stadium, Attendance: 12,000
goals: Hilsdon 2, Windridge, Rutherford
best players: ?
All eleven Bohemia players were from Slavia Prague.


Newspaper sources: Field, Globe, London Daily News, The Sportsman, Athletic News, Evening Star, Lancashire Evening Post, Leeds Mercury, Manchester Courier, Newcastle Daily Chronicle, Sheffield Daily Telegraph, Sheffield Independent, Western Daily Press, Yorkshire Post, Aberdeen Press, Dundee Courier, Greenock Telegraph, The Scotsman, Scottish Referee, Northern Whig.

Sources are from the British Newspaper Archive, managed by the British Library Board.

 

Suggested best XI 1907-08 (2-3-5):

Roose - Crompton, Jimmy Sharp - Thomson, Roberts, McWilliam - Meredith, Rutherford, Quinn, Woodward, Bridgett.

 

You will surely know this page. A little more detailed information of the international matches can be found. This is, for example, from Hungary 0 - England 7.

https://eu-football.info/_match.php?id=4522

 

Yes this is a good website for lineups and results.

The British press showed no interest in the international matches against Austria, Hungary and Bohemia. Nor in the amateur internationals against Belgium, France, Germany and Netherlands. The results probably explain why. Eight wins out of eight, with 65 goals scored and 7 conceded. That's an average scoreline of 8-1. The England amateur team was the equivalent of something like an England 5th XI at best, something to bear in mind when considering the Olympic tournaments of 1908 and 1912. There was still a huge gulf between football in Britain and elsewhere.

Up to this point, there had been four victories by two non-British sides over major British teams, two in 1906 and one each in 1907 and 1908. Slavia Prague had beaten Southampton and Middlesbrough, and Copenhagen had defeated Southampton and Celtic.

Slavia's other results during this time against all British teams (including minor ones) were five wins against the Civil Service, Crystal Palace, London Amateur Football Alliance and Pilgrims London (2), and eleven defeats by Crystal Palace (2), London Amateur Football Alliance, Manchester United (2), Middlesbrough, Newcastle, Southampton (2) and Woolwich Arsenal (2). There were also three draws against Celtic and Oxford University (2). In addition, the Bohemian national team, made up entirely of Slavia Prague players, lost 4-0 at home to England.

Copenhagen's other results were one win against amateurs Casuals FC, four defeats by Middlesbrough (3) and Celtic, and three draws against Middlesbrough, Southampton and Northern Nomads.

As mentioned previously, all matches in Argentina and Uruguay played by British teams to this point have resulted in wins for the tourists, mostly very easy wins. The first draw comes in 1912 and the first defeat of a British team in 1914. The first defeat by a British team in Brazil occurs a year earlier in 1913.

All this enters the equation when considering the merits of non-British footballers at this time, compared with their British counterparts.

 

I think the data you mention speaks for themselves. I'm afraid it should take a few more years to find a continental player that could shade those of the British Isles. It may not be comparable, but I remember when at the 1992 Olympic Games, the American team made up of NBA professionals faced the rest of the teams. The difference was so abysmal that it would be absurd to look for a player outside the NBA who could approach the level of those ...

 

Also considering the training, teamplay and less difference between the star and teammates

 

This could be a factor where there is evidence that non-British individual players dominated their teams.

 

The challenge is to reconcile those poor results against British teams with the high reputation certain individual players later acquired with historians from their own countries. Examples include Schlosser, Sophus Nielsen, Middleboe, Kosek, Pilat, De Korver, Piendibene, Ohaco and Friedenreich.

There is also a tendency to overrate performances by British players in uncompetitive one-sided matches. The most notable example is Vivian Woodward whose 29 goals in 23 internationals remained a celebrated English record for 47 years. Only one of those goals was against Scotland, England's strongest opponents. Woodward appeared in five internationals against the Scots and match reports reveal that not once did he put in an above-average performance against them.

He also scored 57 goals in 44 games for England's Amateur XI, which included those in the Olympic tournaments. Most of his club football was at lower levels where his output is not particularly outstanding. After spending six years with Clacton, Harwich and Chelmsford, he scored 55 goals in 138 matches for Southern League Tottenham. 29 in 67 for Second Division Chelsea and Tottenham. And 23 in 80 games for Chelsea when they were in the First Division. Slight of build, Woodward came in for some rough treatment and missed more than his fair share of games though injury.

FA President Sir Frederick Wall later stated that Woodward compared with Dixie Dean as a header of a ball in front of goal, and that he was a better overall player than GO Smith. Contemporary sources do not support either claim. Woodward possessed skill and pace, and shared Smith's unselfishness. But cold statistics credit no more than 10% of his career goals accruing against top-level opposition. Among British players pre-1920, Woodward may be one whom history has most overrated.

 

I was thinking not only in "one Man army" teams, ala Maradona 86.

But, in countries with few critical mass or not enough depth in talent, even lining up very bad players.

 

Meredith and Crompton look like certainties. Roberts provides Rutherford with a strong challenge. Also goalkeeper Roose who was said to have single-handedly saved Sunderland from relegation.

Welshman Roose was an amateur so technically available for the United Kingdom team in the October 1908 Olympics. But the selectors wanted to pick an all-England side.