Wanted to get the next thread up for you guys although I have not had time to do some baseline research/reviewing yet.
Thanks for starting this new thread. This season will be very interesting, with just one international, but with the start of the Glasgow vs Sheffield matches. Also, Sheffield FC entered the FA Cup, but lost early (perhaps because the different rules, perhaps because the best players could not make it to London?). I hope peterhrt can provide us with details of these matches, alongside with the usual three Sheffield vs London matches. The goalscorers, and especially the best players of these matches based on newspaper reports would be essential in evaluating this season.
Main matches 1873-74: 7 March 1874. 10,000 crowd. Scotland 2 England 1. Anderson, A McKinnon / Kingsfold Best players – Scotland: McNeil, Hunter, Weir, Ferguson. 6 December 1873. FA Cup Quarter-final. Wanderers 1 Oxford University 1. Alcock / Maddison Best players – Wanderers: Chenery. OU: Vidal 31 January 1874. Replay. Oxford University 1 Wanderers 0. Hughes 17 January 1874. FA Cup Quarter-final. At Peterborough. Clapham Rovers 2 Sheffield FC 1. Buchanan, Holden / Kirke-Smith Northern press complained about biased refereeing. 28 January 1874. FA Cup Semi-final. Royal Engineers 2 Swifts 0. Renny-Tailyour 2 28 February 1874. FA Cup Semi-final. Oxford University 1 Clapham Rovers 0. Vidal 14 March 1874. FA Cup Final. 2,000 crowd. Oxford University 2 Royal Engineers 0. Makarness, Patton Best player – OU: Nepean (gk) 21 March 1874. Scottish Cup Final. Queen's Park 2 Clydesdale 0. W MacKinnon, Leckie 1 November 1873. Sheffield 8 London 2. Wood 3, Owen 2, Sampson 2, Willey / Brockbank, Heron Best players – Sheffield: JC Clegg, WE Clegg, Wood, Owen, Sampson. London: Stark, Heron, Brockbank, Alcock, Hurdell. London missed several players. Alcock, now 16 stone, was due to referee but played instead. 3 January 1874. London 1 Sheffield 1. Kingsford / Wood Best players – London: Alcock, Welch, Lubbock, Heron, Kingsford, Barker. Sheffield: JC Clegg, Marsh, Gregory, Wood. 4 April 1874. 3,000 crowd. Sheffield 4 London 2. Dixon, Gregory, Anthony, Owen / Morten, Farmer Best player – Sheffield: Wilkinson 14 March 1874. 5,000 crowd. Sheffield 2 Glasgow 2. Hunter, Gardner og / Anderson, Weir Best players - Sheffield: JC Clegg, Owen, Wilkinson, Gregory. Glasgow: McNeil, Anderson, Weir, Thomson, A McKinnon, W MacKinnon. McNeil was described as one of the fastest and best players ever seen in Sheffield. Queen's Park played 10 matches in Scotland, winning them all. Not all goalscorers are known, but William MacKinnon and Harry McNeil scored at least six each, Leckie and Weir at least five. Newspaper sources: Bell's Life, Globe, London Daily News, London Evening Standard, Manchester Courier, Morning Post, Sheffield Daily Telegraph, York Herald, Yorkshire Post, Dundee Courier, Glasgow Herald, The Scotsman. Sources are from the British Newspaper Archive, managed by the British Library Board.
Who played for Sheffield? Did any of the best players in the four matches of the Sheffield XI take part? Or did they belong to another Sheffield club (perhaps The Wednesday)?
Sheffield FC XI v Clapham Rovers in the FA Cup: HW Chambers (capt), JC Clegg, WE Clegg, Arnold Kirke-Smith, TC Willey, J Willey, HE Dixon, H Sorby, M Ellison, A Marsden, J Wigfull. Kirke-Smith had captained Oxford University in the 1873 FA Cup final. He was born in Sheffield and also played for teams there.
Although Sheffield seems to have dominated London in this season based on the three inter-asscotiation matches, their dominance was probably partly caused by the unavailability of many London-based players for these matches. Sheffield FC was not very impressive in the FA Cup. Moreover, the Sheffield selection was decidedly beaten on its own ground by the Royal Engineers. In December 1873 the Royal Engineers went on tour to Sheffield and the Midlands. http://gottfriedfuchs.blogspot.com/2014/02/officers-of-royal-engineers-chatham-on.html Perhaps the most significant match was the following: Sheffield-Royal Engineers 0-4, 20.12.1873, Sheffield, Bramall Lane, Attendance: 3000 Goals: Rawson, Van Donop, Olivier (2) The match is the best ever played at Bramall Lane. It started with Sheffield Rules, and changed ends after each goal. In the second half the London Rules were used, and Royal Engineers scored another two goals. The match was even, and the Sheffield team was unfortunate not to score a goal. After the match the Engineers say Sheffield is the best team they have come in contact. Here are my nominees for the Top 23: Weir, James SCO Queen's Park forward SCO cup, 1 cap, plays well against England and Sheffield (with a goal), scores at least five goals this season McNeil, Harry (in his birth record spelled as Henry McNiel) Queen's Park forward SCO cup, 1 cap, plays well against England and Sheffield, scores at least six goals this season Owen, John ENG Sheffield FC forward 1 cap, plays well against London, and also against Scotland. In a match report was called the best man in the North of England. Vidal, Walpole ENG Oxford University forward plays well in FA Cup Wood, A ENG Sheffield (which club?) forward twice plays well against London, scores a hat-trick in the first match Clegg, Charles ENG Sheffield FC/The Wednesday forward twice plays well against London, and also against Scotland Ottaway, Cuthbert ENG Oxford University forward captain of the FA Cup winning team and England MacKinnon, William SCO Queen's Park forward SCO cup, 1 cap, scores at least six goals this season Thomson, James (contemporary reports spell his name as Thompson) SCO Queen's Park half-back 1 cap, captain of Queen's Park in the second part of the 1873/74 season (after Ker left for Canada), but moves to work in Liverpool in October Gardner, Robert SCO Clydesdale goalkeeper 1 cap, captained Clydesdale in the first Scottish cup final with a magnificent display of goalkeeping against his old club Alcock, Charles ENG Wanderers forward twice plays well against Sheffield, played little this season (13 matches, scoring just 4 goals), owing to an injury to the back in March. Alcock was chosen as England’s captain, but could not play because of his injury Leckie, Robert SCO Queen's Park forward SCO cup, scores at least five goals this season Chenery, Charles ENG Crystal Palace/Wanderers (which club did he represent in FA Cup?) forward 1 cap, plays well for Wanderes in the FA Cup Hunter, John SCO Third Lanark back plays well against England Ferguson, John SCO Vale of Leven forward plays well against England Renny-Tailyour, Henry SCO forward scores two goals in the FA Cup semi-final Nepean, Charles ENG Oxford University goalkeeper plays well in the FA Cup final Heron, Hubert ENG 22 Uxbridge forward 1 cap, twice plays well against Sheffield Kingsford, Robert ENG 25 Wanderers forward 1 cap, plays well against Sheffield, scores a goal against Scotland and Sheffield Sampson, GH ENG The Wednesday (Sheffield) forward plays well against London and scores two goals Marindin, Francis ENG 36 Royal Engineers D captain of Royal Engineers, played well in their Northern tour von Donop, Pelham ENG 23 Royal Engineers forward played well and scored in each three matches of their Northern tour Gregory, R ENG Hallam/Fir Vale (Sheffield) forward plays well against London, and also against Scotland For the Top 3 I would nominate Weir, McNeil and Owen, in this order. They were all capped during the season and were considered very good forwards. There is little to choose between Weir and McNeil. The 1875 Scottish Football Annual writes Weir is "unsurpassed as a forward", whereas McNeil is "one of the best forwards". So I would put Weir ahead of McNeil.
Top 3 looks good to me. Other candidates for the 23: Joe Taylor, Queen's Park Charlie Campbell, Queen's Park. He would become their best-ever player. W Wilkinson, Sheffield Taylor and Campbell might make the best XI for the season at full-back and half-back respectively. Leckie was picked for Scotland but dropped out. Chenery played for Wanderers in the FA Cup, as well as Crystal Palace in other matches. A Wood's club was Derbyshire. Eight of the England team that faced Scotland never represented their country again. Possible XI (2-2-6): Gardner - Hunter, Taylor - Campbell, James Thomson - Owen, Weir, McNeil, Chenery, JC Clegg, Wood. Seven Scots (including goalkeeper, both backs and half-backs), three from Sheffield and one from London.
Alfred Goodwyn played well during the Engineers Northern tour, but he was later posted overseas and died in India on the day of the FA final of injuries sustained in a fall from a horse. I would choose Thomson because he was the captain of Queen's Park.
I agree we could take out Leckie. Wilkinson could replace Gregory, they had very similar records this season. That means we only have to take out one player from my original selection. Alcock, Ferguson or Marindin could be left out to make room for your third player.
By this time Alcock was overweight and rarely fully fit. He could be the one to go. You are right about what happened to Goodwyn. He was considered Royal Engineers' best defensive player - ahead of Marindin who was noted more for leadership qualities.
I took into account peterhrt's suggestions. This is my final proposal for the Top 23. Campbell, Charles SCO Queen's Park half-back Chenery, Charles ENG Wanderers/ Crystal Palace forward Clegg, Charles ENG Sheffield FC/The Wednesday forward Ferguson, John SCO Vale of Leven forward Gardner, Robert SCO Clydesdale goalkeeper Goodwyn, Alfred ENG Royal Engineers half-back Heron, Hubert ENG Uxbridge forward Hunter, John SCO Third Lanark back Kingsford, Robert ENG Wanderers forward MacKinnon, William SCO Queen's Park forward McNeil, Harry SCO Queen's Park forward Nepean, Charles ENG Oxford University goalkeeper Ottaway, Cuthbert ENG Oxford University forward Owen, John ENG Sheffield FC forward Renny-Tailyour, Henry SCO Royal Engineers forward Sampson, GH ENG The Wednesday forward Taylor, Joseph SCO Queen's Park back Thomson, James SCO Queen's Park half-back Vidal, Walpole ENG Oxford University forward von Donop, Pelham ENG Royal Engineers forward Weir, James SCO Queen's Park forward Wilkinson, W ENG Fir Vale (Sheffield) forward Wood, A ENG The Wednesday/Derbyshire forward Top 3: 1. Weir 2. McNeil 3. Owen By country: England (13), Scotland (10) By club: Queen's Park (6), Oxford University (3), Royal Engineers (3), Wanderers (2), Sheffield FC (2), The Wednesday (2), Clydesdale (1), Fir Vale (1), Third Lanark (1), Uxbridge (1), Vale of Leven (1)
Tom Stevens has asked me to update the discussion thread with the final results. Final results for the season 1873-74 23 Man Shortlist Campbell, Charles SCO (Queen's Park) half-back Chenery, Charles ENG (Wanderers/ Crystal Palace) forward Clegg, Charles ENG (Sheffield FC/The Wednesday) forward Ferguson, John SCO (Vale of Leven) forward Gardner, Robert SCO (Clydesdale) goalkeeper Goodwyn, Alfred ENG (Royal Engineers) half-back Heron, Hubert ENG (Uxbridge) forward Hunter, John SCO (Third Lanark) back Kingsford, Robert ENG (Wanderers) forward MacKinnon, William SCO (Queen's Park) forward McNeil, Harry SCO (Queen's Park) forward Nepean, Charles ENG (Oxford University) goalkeeper Ottaway, Cuthbert ENG (Oxford University) forward Owen, John ENG (Sheffield FC) forward Renny-Tailyour, Henry SCO (Royal Engineers) forward Sampson, GH ENG (The Wednesday) forward Taylor, Joseph SCO (Queen's Park) back Thomson, James SCO (Queen's Park) half-back Vidal, Walpole ENG (Oxford University) forward von Donop, Pelham ENG (Royal Engineers) forward Weir, James SCO (Queen's Park) forward Wilkinson, W ENG (Fir Vale/Sheffield) forward Wood, A ENG Sheffield (The Wednesday) forward Top3 1. Weir, James SCO (Queen's Park) forward 2. McNeil, Harry SCO (Queen's Park) forward 3. Owen, John ENG (Sheffield FC) forward Team of the Season (2-2-6): Gardner - Hunter, Taylor - Campbell, Goodwyn - Owen, Weir, McNeil, Chenery, J Clegg, Wood.