BigSoccer's Players of the Season: 1873-74

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Tom Stevens, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. Tom Stevens

    Tom Stevens Member+

    Dec 12, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Wanted to get the next thread up for you guys although I have not had time to do some baseline research/reviewing yet.
     
  2. elegos7

    elegos7 Member

    Jun 28, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Thanks for starting this new thread.

    This season will be very interesting, with just one international, but with the start of the Glasgow vs Sheffield matches.
    Also, Sheffield FC entered the FA Cup, but lost early (perhaps because the different rules, perhaps because the best players could not make it to London?).

    I hope peterhrt can provide us with details of these matches, alongside with the usual three Sheffield vs London matches.

    The goalscorers, and especially the best players of these matches based on newspaper reports would be essential in evaluating this season.
     
  3. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Main matches 1873-74:


    7 March 1874. 10,000 crowd. Scotland 2 England 1. Anderson, A McKinnon / Kingsfold
    Best players – Scotland: McNeil, Hunter, Weir, Ferguson.

    6 December 1873. FA Cup Quarter-final. Wanderers 1 Oxford University 1. Alcock / Maddison
    Best players – Wanderers: Chenery. OU: Vidal

    31 January 1874. Replay. Oxford University 1 Wanderers 0. Hughes

    17 January 1874. FA Cup Quarter-final. At Peterborough. Clapham Rovers 2 Sheffield FC 1. Buchanan, Holden / Kirke-Smith
    Northern press complained about biased refereeing.

    28 January 1874. FA Cup Semi-final. Royal Engineers 2 Swifts 0. Renny-Tailyour 2

    28 February 1874. FA Cup Semi-final. Oxford University 1 Clapham Rovers 0. Vidal

    14 March 1874. FA Cup Final. 2,000 crowd. Oxford University 2 Royal Engineers 0. Makarness, Patton
    Best player – OU: Nepean (gk)

    21 March 1874. Scottish Cup Final. Queen's Park 2 Clydesdale 0. W MacKinnon, Leckie

    1 November 1873. Sheffield 8 London 2. Wood 3, Owen 2, Sampson 2, Willey / Brockbank, Heron
    Best players – Sheffield: JC Clegg, WE Clegg, Wood, Owen, Sampson. London: Stark, Heron, Brockbank, Alcock, Hurdell.
    London missed several players. Alcock, now 16 stone, was due to referee but played instead.

    3 January 1874. London 1 Sheffield 1. Kingsford / Wood
    Best players – London: Alcock, Welch, Lubbock, Heron, Kingsford, Barker. Sheffield: JC Clegg, Marsh, Gregory, Wood.

    4 April 1874. 3,000 crowd. Sheffield 4 London 2. Dixon, Gregory, Anthony, Owen / Morten, Farmer
    Best player – Sheffield: Wilkinson

    14 March 1874. 5,000 crowd. Sheffield 2 Glasgow 2. Hunter, Gardner og / Anderson, Weir
    Best players - Sheffield: JC Clegg, Owen, Wilkinson, Gregory. Glasgow: McNeil, Anderson, Weir, Thomson, A McKinnon, W MacKinnon.
    McNeil was described as one of the fastest and best players ever seen in Sheffield.


    Queen's Park played 10 matches in Scotland, winning them all. Not all goalscorers are known, but William MacKinnon and Harry McNeil scored at least six each, Leckie and Weir at least five.


    Newspaper sources: Bell's Life, Globe, London Daily News, London Evening Standard, Manchester Courier, Morning Post, Sheffield Daily Telegraph, York Herald, Yorkshire Post, Dundee Courier, Glasgow Herald, The Scotsman.

    Sources are from the British Newspaper Archive, managed by the British Library Board.
     
    elegos7 and Tom Stevens repped this.
  4. elegos7

    elegos7 Member

    Jun 28, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Who played for Sheffield? Did any of the best players in the four matches of the Sheffield XI take part? Or did they belong to another Sheffield club (perhaps The Wednesday)?
     
  5. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Sheffield FC XI v Clapham Rovers in the FA Cup:

    HW Chambers (capt), JC Clegg, WE Clegg, Arnold Kirke-Smith, TC Willey, J Willey, HE Dixon, H Sorby, M Ellison, A Marsden, J Wigfull.

    Kirke-Smith had captained Oxford University in the 1873 FA Cup final. He was born in Sheffield and also played for teams there.
     
  6. elegos7

    elegos7 Member

    Jun 28, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Although Sheffield seems to have dominated London in this season based on the three inter-asscotiation matches, their dominance was probably partly caused by the unavailability of many London-based players for these matches.

    Sheffield FC was not very impressive in the FA Cup. Moreover, the Sheffield selection was decidedly beaten on its own ground by the Royal Engineers.

    In December 1873 the Royal Engineers went on tour to Sheffield and the Midlands. http://gottfriedfuchs.blogspot.com/2014/02/officers-of-royal-engineers-chatham-on.html
    Perhaps the most significant match was the following:
    Sheffield-Royal Engineers 0-4, 20.12.1873, Sheffield, Bramall Lane, Attendance: 3000
    Goals: Rawson, Van Donop, Olivier (2)
    The match is the best ever played at Bramall Lane. It started with Sheffield Rules, and changed ends after each goal. In the second half the London Rules were used, and Royal Engineers scored another two goals. The match was even, and the Sheffield team was unfortunate not to score a goal. After the match the Engineers say Sheffield is the best team they have come in contact.

    Here are my nominees for the Top 23:

    Weir, James SCO Queen's Park forward
    SCO cup, 1 cap, plays well against England and Sheffield (with a goal), scores at least five goals this season

    McNeil, Harry (in his birth record spelled as Henry McNiel) Queen's Park forward
    SCO cup, 1 cap, plays well against England and Sheffield, scores at least six goals this season

    Owen, John ENG Sheffield FC forward
    1 cap, plays well against London, and also against Scotland. In a match report was called the best man in the North of England.

    Vidal, Walpole ENG Oxford University forward
    plays well in FA Cup

    Wood, A ENG Sheffield (which club?) forward
    twice plays well against London, scores a hat-trick in the first match

    Clegg, Charles ENG Sheffield FC/The Wednesday forward
    twice plays well against London, and also against Scotland

    Ottaway, Cuthbert ENG Oxford University forward
    captain of the FA Cup winning team and England

    MacKinnon, William SCO Queen's Park forward
    SCO cup, 1 cap, scores at least six goals this season

    Thomson, James (contemporary reports spell his name as Thompson) SCO Queen's Park half-back
    1 cap, captain of Queen's Park in the second part of the 1873/74 season (after Ker left for Canada), but moves to work in Liverpool in October

    Gardner, Robert SCO Clydesdale goalkeeper
    1 cap, captained Clydesdale in the first Scottish cup final with a magnificent display of goalkeeping against his old club

    Alcock, Charles ENG Wanderers forward
    twice plays well against Sheffield, played little this season (13 matches, scoring just 4 goals), owing to an injury to the back in March. Alcock was chosen as England’s captain, but could not play because of his injury

    Leckie, Robert SCO Queen's Park forward
    SCO cup, scores at least five goals this season

    Chenery, Charles ENG Crystal Palace/Wanderers (which club did he represent in FA Cup?) forward
    1 cap, plays well for Wanderes in the FA Cup

    Hunter, John SCO Third Lanark back
    plays well against England

    Ferguson, John SCO Vale of Leven forward
    plays well against England

    Renny-Tailyour, Henry SCO forward
    scores two goals in the FA Cup semi-final

    Nepean, Charles ENG Oxford University goalkeeper
    plays well in the FA Cup final

    Heron, Hubert ENG 22 Uxbridge forward
    1 cap, twice plays well against Sheffield

    Kingsford, Robert ENG 25 Wanderers forward
    1 cap, plays well against Sheffield, scores a goal against Scotland and Sheffield

    Sampson, GH ENG The Wednesday (Sheffield) forward
    plays well against London and scores two goals

    Marindin, Francis ENG 36 Royal Engineers D
    captain of Royal Engineers, played well in their Northern tour

    von Donop, Pelham ENG 23 Royal Engineers forward
    played well and scored in each three matches of their Northern tour

    Gregory, R ENG Hallam/Fir Vale (Sheffield) forward
    plays well against London, and also against Scotland

    For the Top 3 I would nominate Weir, McNeil and Owen, in this order. They were all capped during the season and were considered very good forwards.

    There is little to choose between Weir and McNeil. The 1875 Scottish Football Annual writes Weir is "unsurpassed as a forward", whereas McNeil is "one of the best forwards". So I would put Weir ahead of McNeil.
     
    peterhrt and msioux75 repped this.
  7. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Top 3 looks good to me.

    Other candidates for the 23:

    Joe Taylor, Queen's Park
    Charlie Campbell, Queen's Park. He would become their best-ever player.
    W Wilkinson, Sheffield

    Taylor and Campbell might make the best XI for the season at full-back and half-back respectively.

    Leckie was picked for Scotland but dropped out.

    Chenery played for Wanderers in the FA Cup, as well as Crystal Palace in other matches. A Wood's club was Derbyshire.

    Eight of the England team that faced Scotland never represented their country again.

    Possible XI (2-2-6):

    Gardner - Hunter, Taylor - Campbell, James Thomson - Owen, Weir, McNeil, Chenery, JC Clegg, Wood. Seven Scots (including goalkeeper, both backs and half-backs), three from Sheffield and one from London.
     
    elegos7 repped this.
  8. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    On reflection, Goodwyn (Royal Engineers) looks a better choice than Thomson at half-back.
     
  9. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Seems he played for Wednesday this season.
     
  10. elegos7

    elegos7 Member

    Jun 28, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Alfred Goodwyn played well during the Engineers Northern tour, but he was later posted overseas and died in India on the day of the FA final of injuries sustained in a fall from a horse.
    I would choose Thomson because he was the captain of Queen's Park.
     
  11. elegos7

    elegos7 Member

    Jun 28, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    I agree we could take out Leckie.
    Wilkinson could replace Gregory, they had very similar records this season.
    That means we only have to take out one player from my original selection. Alcock, Ferguson or Marindin could be left out to make room for your third player.
     
  12. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    By this time Alcock was overweight and rarely fully fit. He could be the one to go.

    You are right about what happened to Goodwyn. He was considered Royal Engineers' best defensive player - ahead of Marindin who was noted more for leadership qualities.
     
  13. elegos7

    elegos7 Member

    Jun 28, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Which club did Hubert Heron represent this season in FA Cup?
    Uxbridge, Wanderers, or perhaps Swifts?

     
  14. peterhrt

    peterhrt Member+

    Oct 21, 2015
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Uxbridge
     
  15. elegos7

    elegos7 Member

    Jun 28, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    I took into account peterhrt's suggestions.

    This is my final proposal for the Top 23.

    Campbell, Charles SCO Queen's Park half-back

    Chenery, Charles ENG Wanderers/ Crystal Palace forward

    Clegg, Charles ENG Sheffield FC/The Wednesday forward

    Ferguson, John SCO Vale of Leven forward

    Gardner, Robert SCO Clydesdale goalkeeper

    Goodwyn, Alfred ENG Royal Engineers half-back

    Heron, Hubert ENG Uxbridge forward

    Hunter, John SCO Third Lanark back

    Kingsford, Robert ENG Wanderers forward

    MacKinnon, William SCO Queen's Park forward

    McNeil, Harry SCO Queen's Park forward

    Nepean, Charles ENG Oxford University goalkeeper

    Ottaway, Cuthbert ENG Oxford University forward

    Owen, John ENG Sheffield FC forward

    Renny-Tailyour, Henry SCO Royal Engineers forward

    Sampson, GH ENG The Wednesday forward

    Taylor, Joseph SCO Queen's Park back

    Thomson, James SCO Queen's Park half-back

    Vidal, Walpole ENG Oxford University forward

    von Donop, Pelham ENG Royal Engineers forward

    Weir, James SCO Queen's Park forward

    Wilkinson, W ENG Fir Vale (Sheffield) forward

    Wood, A ENG The Wednesday/Derbyshire forward

    Top 3: 1. Weir 2. McNeil 3. Owen

    By country: England (13), Scotland (10)

    By club: Queen's Park (6), Oxford University (3), Royal Engineers (3), Wanderers (2), Sheffield FC (2), The Wednesday (2), Clydesdale (1), Fir Vale (1), Third Lanark (1), Uxbridge (1), Vale of Leven (1)
     
    msioux75 and peterhrt repped this.
  16. elegos7

    elegos7 Member

    Jun 28, 2014
    Club:
    Liverpool LFC
    Tom Stevens has asked me to update the discussion thread with the final results.

    Final results for the season 1873-74

    23 Man Shortlist

    Campbell, Charles SCO (Queen's Park) half-back
    Chenery, Charles ENG (Wanderers/ Crystal Palace) forward
    Clegg, Charles ENG (Sheffield FC/The Wednesday) forward
    Ferguson, John SCO (Vale of Leven) forward
    Gardner, Robert SCO (Clydesdale) goalkeeper
    Goodwyn, Alfred ENG (Royal Engineers) half-back
    Heron, Hubert ENG (Uxbridge) forward
    Hunter, John SCO (Third Lanark) back
    Kingsford, Robert ENG (Wanderers) forward
    MacKinnon, William SCO (Queen's Park) forward
    McNeil, Harry SCO (Queen's Park) forward
    Nepean, Charles ENG (Oxford University) goalkeeper
    Ottaway, Cuthbert ENG (Oxford University) forward
    Owen, John ENG (Sheffield FC) forward
    Renny-Tailyour, Henry SCO (Royal Engineers) forward
    Sampson, GH ENG (The Wednesday) forward
    Taylor, Joseph SCO (Queen's Park) back
    Thomson, James SCO (Queen's Park) half-back
    Vidal, Walpole ENG (Oxford University) forward
    von Donop, Pelham ENG (Royal Engineers) forward
    Weir, James SCO (Queen's Park) forward
    Wilkinson, W ENG (Fir Vale/Sheffield) forward
    Wood, A ENG Sheffield (The Wednesday) forward

    Top3
    1. Weir, James SCO (Queen's Park) forward
    2. McNeil, Harry SCO (Queen's Park) forward
    3. Owen, John ENG (Sheffield FC) forward

    Team of the Season (2-2-6):
    Gardner - Hunter, Taylor - Campbell, Goodwyn - Owen, Weir, McNeil, Chenery, J Clegg, Wood.
     
    Tom Stevens and peterhrt repped this.

Share This Page