Yeah, probably an interesting one for Rivelino and C.Alberto for example indeed. Not sure how much I'll watch (I still didn't look at Inter vs Napoli for example but thanks anyway, and good to share on here I think. You mean lack of pressing etc in Brazil late 70's/80's? Yeah can make it hard to judge maybe (though maybe can also make players look less good than they are in some ways?).
I mean which areas of the pitch are well-covered and which less so. I mean the pace of the game (vs contemporaries), the technicality of the play (very high imho), the type and frequency of fouling, how they build up attacks, the transitions and type of counter-attacks etcetera.
Yes, sorry, my question was a bit lacking in detail! But I had those sorts of things in mind (particularly though the 'retreat deep into midfield without making challenges' sort of approach).
On the previous subject; I've been looking in The Times archive and although I'm not allowed to quote freely, there are plenty articles confirming what I said on the previous page ("showed against Belgium [March 1977] why he is Europe's top player", "often described as the world's best player" - December 1977). Including comments from e.g. Bill Shankly, April 1976. Some actually praised Cruijff for also showing it with a "not particularly well-balanced or outstandingly talented team" against "world class teams". At the back end of 1977 an interesting article - a general profile of the player reviewing the year 1977 - where it is said that "possibly only Eusebio and Pelé had the ability to dominate a match so completely." Indeed, nice and well-deserved that Eusebio gets a nod there (9 December 1977). He "has exposed them [British teams] at international and club levels twice within a year." If you'd see it all, the playing style description, abilities description, the performance assessment, including games played with an injury and very rough marking, then the picture is pretty clear imho. "Football will lose a rare talent." Also interesting is that in another article of that time Celtic their fate after the departure of Dalglish is compared with the one of Ajax post-Cruijff. Indeed, as peterhrt said, Dalglish was from the beginning highly rated (and Celtic missed him). Dalglish would fit nicely into the top category for 1975 - 1985 I think.
Yes, personally I was already thinking of Cruyff as very feasible number 1 for 1977 for example (earlier in the thread more as a punt/hunch maybe, but solidified by similar info and opinions maybe) and Dalglish certainly among the top few for 75-85 (a period which fits him very well to be fair I guess).
From around the publication of Wolstenholme his book (early 1968) I found this interesting interview by the way. I saw the whole one. In it Pelé and Eusebio are briefly mentioned. The first in the capacity of "if you're obliged to swap your life", the second as "who is probably the most dangerous goalscorer at the moment". Immediately followed by another interview with martin luther king which was also intruiging to see.
Here another nice one: http://people.com/archive/it-cost-t...th-johan-cruyff-but-hes-worth-it-vol-12-no-8/ I watched this in the evening now (on the footballia website though). It's another good one, good game. Interesting comments below the video.
Who did you make MOTM (or an 8 or so out of 10 - maybe multiple players)? Looks like several Cup Finals are on Youtube now then too.
Nice Cruyff article. Yes, although maybe he'd 'had enough' in Spain and wanted a break, I think the feeling was very much that they were taking the best player in the world (or one of the very best at the least) still wasn't it. Not like players who recently went to the USA after they declined enough to not be in that bracket (Thierry Henry for example).
Difficult to say. Steve Coppell went past players with ease (off-center at least) and lived up to his 'mister consistent' tag. Keegan did seem to be all-round the most capable forward, without being magical in a technical sense.
So I guess entertaining in the sense of openness and willingness to go forwards, but less so in terms of invention and genius? (I mean the game as a whole, not Keegan or Coppell specifically).
I found some evidence against Di Stefano being a default contender for 1959. In the season 1958/59, Di Stefano top the scoring charts in La Liga, he scored half of his goals between Sep-Dec, where he was rated 1,73 (15 league games). In the 2nd half of the season between Jan-Apr, he was downgrading with a rating of 1,46 (13 league games) according Marca (grades from 0-3). Di Stefano ended as the Real Madrid third best player. Next season, he started with a lower level, being rated with 1,29 (14 league games) between Sep-Dec. And ended the 1959/60 season with a rating 1,00 (8 league matches) between Jan-Apr. Because of injuries and low form, he was replaced by Pepillo in many matches. Di Stefano ended that season as the Real Madrid 7th best player. So, only a regular performance in 1959 according Marca from Madrid.
I wonder about 1958 too - do you have Kopa's ratings to compare? Maybe 1959 to Pele seems even a bit more likely now then? But perhaps the likes of Suarez and Gento had better ratings within Spain than ADS for the calender year?
@PDG1978 Having picked up the 1999-00 OPTA yearbook again (which deals with the 1998-99 season) I noticed they highlighted the consistency at a high level of the two players above. Roy Keane is called "the inspiration". His tackling, interceptions, pass volume and accuracy (90% accurate) stand out. He was third in their midfielder metrics, but the write up is the most positive of anyone. They missed his presence, it is highlighted. "Roy Keane also played a starring role in United's breathtaking season, even though he missed the Champions League final and all but the first eight minutes of the FA Cup final." Interestingly, he is not in their 'tacklers XI' (unlike some of his peers at the bigger clubs), thereby highlighting he was just standing on the right place. About Bergkamp the first couple of words are "another superb domestic campaign" and "his touch, passing and finishing continued to be of the highest quality". Also the value of his presence is highlighted (which they would do again in 2000 and 2001) and he was their top rated attacker for 1998-99. It is also said he was the runaway player of the season in 1997-98, which was the first season of their 'index'. The "breathtaking vision and awesome striking ability shone through in the second half of the season as the Gunners came so close to defending their title successfully." Peter Schmeichel was seen as consistent as well (when fit), although it is said he correctly felt that his standards were slipping by 1998-99 (he was close to 36 years old when he left Manchester United).
Marca's first season ranking was 1958/59. In that season, Kopa had an amazing 2,13 between the months Sep-Dec, then his performances were poor according Marca. The frenchman ended the season with a rating of 1,60. The same season, Puskas had a rating of 1,67 and Santamaría 1,75
That is an interesting difference with the other Real Madrid stars in the immediate months before the 1958 Ballon d'Or vote. Do you also have the 1959-60 season uploaded? @PDG1978 Something for you Sad ending
Yes, maybe better to speak more about the 'good' times, even elaborating for pre-Clough with the 1959 FA Cup Final and mentioning players like Storey-Moore and Baker from the side that came 2nd instead! I see this new channel has some rare performances:
I've had a look through several on the channel (in full or partially), and partly for rarity (though maybe it's matter of not thinking to search for such a game) I like the Susic one definitely. Nice collection for Ajax vs Juventus in 1973 of course too (at least Cruyff and Neeskens IIRC) - that's the one of Ajax's 3 in a row I saw least of (maybe saw both others in full even), so I'd not looked at Cruyff's full display before - certainly some similarities to his role in the 1974 WC I think.
Here's an interesting graph in Norman Barrett his 1980 book (it falls just outside the scope of the thread I created). It had a profile of three pages on Alex James. There was one graph in that is in a few ways interesting and worthwhile to note. The book had a foreword by Bobby Charlton, who wrote that "the world is waiting for a new Pelé and a new Cruyff to burst on to the scene", which is from a few angles an interesting comment too (to write this in a foreword). Book was published in 1981 (midway 1981), but it is not unlikely that he last words were revised and added in the last months of 1980. Although the book positively surprises me, it falls outside the scope.
Yeah, definitely the write-up enhances the idea about his playing style and how highly he was regarded. And that's like an early form of goal impact analysis then haha!
The Jimmy Hill book I got yesterday also supports this again. His first paragraph and sentence is: "By the middle of the 1970s, there was, for me, only one claimant to the title of being the greatest player in the world. Johan Cruyff, the Dutch master, was that man." At times he gives some interesting perceptions. I left 1945 - 1955 open since I was wondering how much would be influenced by later perceptions. So far I'd say Matthews and Nordahl appear to have the best papers. The six years younger Nordahl is a good secondary option, maybe a better one given his age. Maybe some more old lists will surface to help this out (vs their contemporaries). Both had also plenty of games against (probable) top 10/20 opponents in this decade (see comments on previous page, e.g. post #1367). The past weeks I also watched some games of Roy Keane, Baggio, Maldini and Bergkamp in their best seasons and national team matches (with a bit of your help I singled those out for 1990 - 2000), when they were in their prime. Roy Keane is definitely the most participative of them all, with and without the ball. Also nasty at times in a truly malicious way. Roberto Baggio was the least involved for sure, with also the least without ball and off-the-ball movement, the least teamwork in general. It didn't make it easier for me but for now I leave my original choice the same...