Best XI and the greatest players of each football era

Hmm, maybe Patrick Vieira comes to mind and maybe Lars Bohinen (both quite tall actually especially Vieira) but I'm not sure where to find the best examples.

I think Vieira was capable and often pulled off juggling acts in small spaces (a bit like at 0:22 on this nice rare video, but then more similar skills without moving forwards is I guess what you are thinking of)

There's a hint of something from Bohinen at 4:06 here, but I can think of times when he'd be more surrounded and move the ball from boot to boot before passing it wheras here it's just one touch and not what you refer to (I only show to point at the sort of touch used and that it was initially from low/no speed):

Likewise at 9:34 here he takes only makes one move, to help score, but I've seen similar where he'd take a few touches (same fixture but playing for the other team by the way!):


It's maybe hard to know where to find the better examples, but anyway I do think those two came to mind fairly reasonably, in that they'd use touches to make space rather than look to accelerate into space.

 

I suppose it's hard when it's not something I specifically thought about (but though finding examples is not easy I do think Vieira and Bohinen have shown things I've seen that fit your description well). I had a think about small, nimble players (quick turning and agile, but with natural control) who should fit well and thought about Osvaldo Ardiles, but the thing with him is he was always looking to be on the move forwards ASAP I think, but I'd say had the necessary skills to fit what you're talking about too (10:29 here is actually similar to my other examples, but I know he was capable of more extensive 'on the spot' skills and had good awareness for such situations - what is shown here is something the likes of Laudrup and Zidane could also do though so not what you're thinking of in itself):
http://dai.ly/k7mhUDkY1C3Qh7acj8j
I wondered about Cesar Cueto but would need to look in more detail with the question specifically in mind (he'd only really come to my attention since I joined Big Soccer). I did see that (showing the other side of the coin to what you're showing re: Maradona's more average displays in another thread; that some older legends have brilliant moments that remain secrets almost - most people unaware of them unlike similar goals by Rivaldo or Beckham in more recent times) he scores a great half-way line goal in this video I started looking at to investigate (without much to back up the hunch on this topic on this video though):

I did wonder about the two players on this video, Robert Prosinecki and Zvonimir Boban, but there's not a lot (only some nice touches to indicate they could do it well) of examples here and maybe situations extensive stationary skills would get used would be fairly rare so unless there are famous examples we remember maybe it'd take quite a lot of work to find good examples:

 

I realise that makes my latest idea about halfway between a Dream Team and a Balanced Team! Makes sense as I'm probably aiming to move a bit towards the latter, but not wanting to abandon the former. Since all the best players haven't played in the same era it's impossible to know if just fitting in the very best players as well as possible into a sort of 'proper' setup would work best with them all available, or deciding on the optimum set-up and then picking the best option for each place would (as some would prefer I know). Any 'B' Team, while being great, would surely have a difficult time playing against the All-Time 'A' Team in theory either way though I'd think - a difficult time actually trying to win anyway!

I suppose my choice is now Magic Square-esque in shape (or arguably 4-1-3-2 but with Platini as a central playmaker rather than as in his Dream Team option Pele as a number 10 - perhaps if he wanted to make that one slightly more 'balanced' he could pull back Cruyff and Maradona deeper into midfield and make it a diamond though?). If I move further towards balanced, maybe curiously I might introduce George Best and make a diamond (with Maradona or perhaps Cruyff at the top, dropping Platini) or a 4-2-3-1 (actually dropping Maradona and putting Pele in the hole, or putting Pele up front as main striker come false 9 and dropping the CF who'd maybe be Van Basten - in my first choice line-up maybe I also put him in as complete CF, but I could go with Di Stefano who could then even interchange with Cruyff, or even indeed Messi now as a free-roaming partner for Pele maybe). Maybe Neeskens in midfield and Beckenbauer as libero with Baresi or Moore dropped too even. In my first choice line-up it's not really a change but I might switch the sides of Baresi and Moore I think. And at right back maybe I choose Cafu, but in a more balanced attempt (since he was the most wing-back like so potentially the 'attacking' option in that way - which can help if there's no right winger of course) it could be that Carlos Alberto or Djalma Santos would make more sense, maybe especially in a 4-2-3-1.

 

I can't even remember what I've put on this thread before, but to simplify matters I'll add these diagrams (I suppose the first one is my Dream Team attempt, even if perhaps for extra fantasy Zidane could go in instead of Platini though I won't change that and it's probably my number 1 option and half-way ish towards balanced!; the second is more of a normal 'balanced' team but still trying to put most of the top options in)


Soccer formations made easy with this11.com

Make your football formation with this11.com
Notes: I added Bobby Charlton in midfield for the more pragmatic option too in the end. I didn't really mean to give him an arrow as I was finding drawing them awkward, though he would be venturing forwards in that direction and not just sitting there I suppose! The most likely arrows would be for Beckenbauer obviously (though for the more pragmatic team maybe he could even have been left out and Baresi retained) and also for Pele coming deep and Di Stefano moving forwards, though Best and Cruyff would need freedom to an extent of course too. They seem to be representing Bologna!

 

What do you guys say about this one? (There should have been lines, but they don't appear somehow)

The idea behind this team is to win the ball as high as possible with an amazing and hardworking game destructors (since i haven't thought much about which ball winning midfielders and central defenders i would choose, i am open for suggestions) who are capable of bringing the ball up the field to the feet of creative geniuses in either Maradona, Laurdup or Messi. Messi and Maradona are capable of creating chances for themself by dribbling past anyone or they can find Cristiano Ronaldo, tireless runner who offers passing lines, either by through balls or crosses, he will score them all, but he is also perfectly capable of spreading the defense either right or left and cross the ball when needed.
After i created this base, i realized that my team is lacking players who are running and offering passing lines, because what does it matter if you have the best playmakers in the world if they don't have anyone to pass to so i added very, very offensive fullbacks. Btw, i think Messi-Dani Alves is one of the deadliest duos ever assembled so i wanted to replicate it. Replacing Dani Alves with Carlos Alberto is only a positive change, i think, so i put him in the squad. On the other side, Marcelo, one of the most technically gifted fullbacks in history, i was so impressed by him this season i had to put him in. The consistency at which he would find Ronaldo's head is incredible and i am not sure any fullback could compete with Marcelo when it comes to dribbling.

What else was i taking care of while making the squad?
Well, I put Neuer as a sweeper keeper because the high pressure my team would putting throughout whole game would force the other team adopting to long passing and i don't think there is anyone better at anticipating the play than Neuer and he is not any inferior to the greatest goalkeepers ever when it comes to saving the shots so he is my pick.
I picked Baresi because he is extremely aggressive and one of the greatest tacklers of all time and also very capable of passing the ball, which i think would be one of the most important things in this team, because if deep players (central defenders, fulblacks and defensive midfielders) can find Maradona, Laudrup, Messi with their passes, i think there is not much left to do for oppositions in their third, but if oppositions manage to disrupt distribution to those guys and they force Messi to get really deep, they will have great chance of not conceding a goal.
Maldini is just great, haven't thought much about it, open for discussion.
Rijkaard is one of the best all around players and ball winning midfielders, as well as, really consistent, so i picked him.
Here is the most controversial part. Vieira-Laudrup. Firslty, i choosed Laudrup because he can find anyone with his vision and passing AND, i believe (i am not sure at all, correct me if i am wrong), Laudrup is actually putting some work on the defensive end hence why i choosed him over Zidane or Ronaldinho or Ozil or, etc. Vieira is just a complete, hardowrking, box to box midfielder and excellent choice in most cases.

The alternative i thought of initially was to put Scholes instead of Viera and Lampard as a box to box midfielder (or Matthaus) instead of Laudrup. Scholes is capable of defending and was great in combination with Keane, back in the days and long passing could be something this team would benefit of, an extra dimension to the attack. I really like Lampard in this team, because i really think the biggest weakness of the team is lack of runners (players that offer a passing options) and if Ronaldo moved to the left or right to spread the game, there is no one in penalty box so Lampard could do the trick and be sort of a shadow striker. He is also a hardworker who does his job on defensive end, which is incredible important for high pressure.

To sum up, Messi would have the biggest freedome of them all. He would either cut inside to his left, drop deep to playmake from there or offer an off the ball movement to get picked by an amazing passers, which i think he would need to do that more than he usually does nowadays. Cristiano is a complete king of the penalty box that doesn't care whether he recieves the ball in the feet, in space or in the air. Maradona source of creativness and simply too good to be left out.
Hardworking midfield that is essentially key to this team. Very offensive fullbacks offering the most important realization in modern football, two way football.

Those were my thoughts. Do anyone have any suggestions? What do you think about it?

 

How great Platini was defensively?

 

Updated version:

Interesting debates:
Cristiano - Van Basten
Lampard - Matthaus
Maradona - Cruyff
D.Alves - Cafu - Carlos Alberto
(obviously, those are not questions of who is a better player, but who would fit the system more)

 

I have always prefered Cristiano Ronaldo (L/C forward) alongside another striker/target forward. I personally would field Van Basten or Ronaldo "Il Fenômeno" in that #9 role (the two most complete strikers of all time). Lampard perfected the timing of his attacking runs into the box so he is ideal in his position. I think you're under-using Gullit, either play him or Lampard in that role behind Van Basten/Ronaldo. Go back to Patrick Vieira as your "complete, hardworking, box to box midfielder", or Marco Tardelli.

 

I mostly choosed Cristiano because of his off the ball movements(), pace on counter attacks, heading and ability to get himself at the right place in the right time (tap ins). I am not sure this team needs another mesmeriezing dribbler in R9 with Messi and Maradona on the pitch, variety is spice of life, although i agree that Cristiano works the best with another striker like Benzema along side him that can distract defenders a bit.

However, i played a bit more with making tactics but this time my goal was to make a team that would beat the one i posted earlier. I came up with this (Ronaldo is Brazilian one):
There was a lot of thinking behind this team as well, but i don't feel like writing all of it down right now ahah.

 

I would argue Lahm is the superior leftback and Zanetti the superior rightback.

 

I think a team possessing two wingforwards (4-3-3) would occupy Marcelo and Dani Alves better.

I think Lilian Thuram/Bergomi/Gentile/Vogts would be more up to the challenge of marking Maradona than Lahm.

Romário/Ronaldo enjoyed playing against Baresi/Maldini too.

 

I first placed Lahm as a right back then thought of a left back, not even noticing that it would probably make more sense to switch their positions since Lahm had more success on a left back than Zanetti. I agree on that one.


Hmm, but the thing is that i wasn't prioritizing the defensive role of a right back in this case since Messi and Maradona would mainly occupy the middle of the pitch and not flanks. My stream of thought was going like this:
If i want to win, i have to score goals so what would be the easiest way to score goals vs that team? I noticed that Dani Alves and Marcelo are very offensive in the system so, naturally, i thought of counter attacks over the flanks being the most logical solution which why i put two, individually briliant, wingers and why i was going for fullbacks with high stamina like this

that can do it on both ends, which led me to those two i choosed and why i also went with three defensive minded midfielders (Vidal having a bit freedom offensively).
Defensively, formation would be 4-3(DM)-1-2 zonal marking (Atletico Madrid style of marking in two aggresive but organized blocks) that turns into 4-2(DM)-3-1 offensively and mainly attacks on an individual briliance of Ronaldo Robben and Cruyff.
I took a risk with Lahm, because otherwise it would be too defensive, which i don't like. Having that said i am not sure in offensive capabilities of Bergomi and Vogts.

Hm, Maicon at his very best could be a nice fit to my idea.

 

My dream team (1930 - 1954)

1 Ricardo Zamora
2 José Nasazzi
3 Domingos Da Guía
4 Leandro Andrade
5 Obdulio Varela
6 Luis Monti
7 Héctor Scarone
8 Giuseppe Meazza
9 Josef Bican
10 Matthias Sindelaar
11 José Manuel Moreno

They help me make this ideal team from 1930 to 1954. Which players deserve to enter? What coach was revolutionary at that time? Reviews

 

Others can help more I think, like @msioux75 @peterhrt @comme @Perú FC

...but I guess it depends how closely you'd want to be mirroring a real formation of the time, and a 'realistic' line-up (to be fair though I've noticed that players did reasonably often switch positions, including between winger and inside forward, in 'select XI' games and I think in normal International games too).

I'm not sure whether Scarone fits as winger necessarily but Meazza and Moreno as wing forwards is potentially ok I guess, but not absolutely representative in terms of their best positions, or normal positions.

Nasazzi and Domingos Da Guia seems probably ok, although it might be both were seen more as 'sweepers' and/or right backs as opposed to left backs (in those days that doesn't mean a lateral position but the full backs were the last line of defence as you might know). But I guess you have it as Nasazzi as right back and Andrade as left back in a 3-2-2-3 system (WM)? If having Nasazzi and Domingos as a partnership, then it'd seem like you could use a right or left half (the pre WM ones being predominantly wide players, although not exclusively I think) instead of Monti, or Varela if you like (one of those would be the 'centre half' or DM as we'd describe it now).

Thanks for the rep you gave earlier for my 1955 to 1975 attempt. I see that I mentioned I didn't have any Hungarians in that (despite a great generation in that timeframe or from slightly earlier - but I think you don't intend to consider those players who shined just before 1954 for this team you suggest, but concentrate on earlier players). One Hungarian I could suggest here though as an option to consider is Gyorgy Sarosi (and his versatility can make him an option as centre forward, inside forward, centre half, centre back too I think). Silvio Piola could be an alternative to Bican I guess, but it's hard to compare them for any of us really of course. Anyway, it seems like you know a lot of the famous names and will probably be aware of others from South America and Europe too, so I won't start to go overboard with possibilities in this post.

 

If you did want to put wingers in I think it's ok to consider Stanley Matthews and Tom Finney as belonging to this 1930 - 1954 period though, I should add.

I can see that it's tempting to use inside forwards in a 3 player attack though, for such an all-star team.

 

My tactical system is according to the context of the time, 2-3-5.
I read an article about Domingos, he played in Nacional de Uruguay with Nasazzi. His time in Uruguay was brief, but he left the best sensations, he was a superstar there. He left Nacional because he missed the Brazilian way of life. You could say that in 1933, Nacional had the best defense in the world.

What do you think about the midfield? Do you have other names in mind? I read something about Bauer, a Brazilian midfielder who was part of the Maracanazo, it is said that he was the only one who was saved from the criticism of that fateful World Cup, that is why he was the captain in Switzerland 54.

Up front, I found Matthews's choice as a pure right winger very good. It hurt to remove Moreno from the team, one of the best players of the 1940s, but I think Sindelaar and Meazza are good choices. For the center-forward position there are many options, such as Piola, Leonidas, Erico, Sarosi, Zsengellér or Deák. Clearly the best generation of scorers was in Hungary.

 

Personally, I feel like Erico is such a standout player that if a no.9 is going to be picked, it has to be him.

Alternatively, you could also just not play a no.9 and use Sindelar as the false nine option, with Moreno and Meazza on either side of him.

Matthews is a good shout for right winger, and I wonder if Puc can also be considered as the natural left winger option for this period.

 

Probably you read more about Bauer than me - do you think it seems like he would be able to play more to the side? Maybe he would fit in the 3 of the 2-3-5 if he could - for example Bauer-Varela-Andrade. Andrade might have been more used on the right than left though I'm thinking (though sometimes it seems he did play from the left half position I think). Otherwise I wonder about someone like Smistik of Austria but I'm not really sure. Perhaps Van Heel of the Netherlands is not out of the question to be in the discussion too. Like I said Sarosi can be put in a deeper position (and I believe he played very well in such roles) but I don't know whether a predominantly wide wing half role would be a great choice for him.

 

Yeah, I think Puc is a good call and good fit probably, and more suitable than Finney in terms of the generation being picked in anamnesis's XI in general (more belonging to the 30s than the ones peaking into the 50s). Raimundo Orsi is another option that comes to mind.

I'd probably lean to a Piola, Bican, Leonidas etc over Erico funnily enough, but like I said before it's hard for us to form impressions and even draw our 'own conclusions' really. If anything I probably saw a bit more of Erico on Youtube (at least in terms of videos dedicated to him - whether it's really showing him at his best is another question as his reputation could have been formed before the footage was taken or whatever), but certainly Piola can be seen in clips from high profile games.

 

Oh yes, I totally forgot about Orsi!

Regarding Erico, the reason I lean towards him is because I've been pretty convinced of evidence that Bican was plundering a weak league, while the Argentine league was one of the best in the world when Erico was playing.

Leonidas didn't seem to get as many rave reviews as Erico from the South American sources, which I give a bit more weight to than WC performances., although I'm limited by not being able to speak Spanish or Portuguese so I can be wrong there.

Piola I don't rate as highly as he didn't seem to be seen as naturally talented.. Based on the articles I've read, Piola seems more like a classic highly effective striker rather than a genius-level talent that someone like Erico was regarded as.

 

Interesting thoughts, and yeah I guess it's easy to pick up different ideas when trying to 'research'. Like I said the videos I saw didn't really show genius by Erico IIRC but that doesn't mean it never existed.

Piola was I think multi-talented in the sense of being a very good goalscorer with shots and headers, but also someone who was good on the ball, mobile etc, but yeah Meazza was the more renowned dribbler and inventor of that Italian generation it seems for sure.

 

Really, this is a sensational list, but if you allow me any suggestions ... In goal, defense and center of the field you have chosen magnificent players and those positions are perfectly covered. Undoubtedly, the five you have chosen up front were phenomenal, but not exactly in the places where you placed them, since both Moreno and Scarone triumphed as inside. I would suggest placing two pure wingers, which I think cannot be missing in an ideal team from the first half of the 20th century: Stanley Matthews and Raimundo Orsi. As I have read in this thread, Sindelar was aligned as a center forward, although he was not the classic striker at all, but an artist with a fragile body and an enormous technique. He could be the center forward of this team. Any of the interiors that you indicate you can put them without any problem. As for Bauer, I have read quite a bit. He has a great reputation in Brazil and in particular in Sao Paulo where alongside Noronha and Rui they formed splendid seasons before, precisely the famous 1950 world championship. Even so, I would not get to include him in the best midfield line of the period you analyze.

Realmente, esta es una lista sensacional, pero si me permites alguna sugerencia... En la portería, defensa y centro del campo has escogido magníficos jugadores y esos puestos están perfectamente cubiertos. Sin duda, los cinco que has elegido en la delantera fueron fenomenales, pero no exactamente en los lugares en los que los situaste, ya que tanto Moreno como Scarone triunfaron como interiores. Yo te sugeriría colocar dos extremos puros, que creo que no pueden faltar en un equipo ideal de la primera mitad del siglo XX: Stanley Matthews y Raimundo Orsi.
Como bien he leído en este hilo, Sindelar era alineado como delantero centro, aunque para nada era el clásico ariete al uso, sino un artista de cuerpo frágil y una técnica descomunal. Podría ser el delantero centro de este equipo. Cualquiera de los interiores que indicas los puedes poner sin ningún problema.
Respecto a Bauer, he leído bastante. Tiene una gran reputación en Brasil y en particular en Sao Paulo donde al lado de Noronha y Rui formaron espléndidas temporadas antes, precisamente del famoso campeonato del mundo de 1950. Aún así, yo no lo llegaría a incluir en la mejor línea del medio del campo del período que analizas.

 

Very good suggestions, dude. I think you're right. I made some arrangements in my lineup. As a curiosity, there are several players who were figures in the amateur era such as Zamora, Nasazzi, Andrade, Monti and Orsi. However, the most interesting fact is that they were all born in 1901.

 

I tell you that I found a candidate for the position of left CB, it is the Swedish Erik Nilsson. I don't have many references in Spanish, surely there are more in English. If you could provide more information about him it would be great.
I made some arrangements in my lineup. I hope you like it.