It's probably been highlighted already but Brazilian Ronaldo actually deserves extra praise for basically having two careers and two ways of playing .. before and after the injuries ..
How so? It's unfortunate that Ronaldo even had to change considering it was forced change. However, it's not like his adaptation was anything spectacular. We've seen plenty other forwards change style.
He was fabulous in both periods though ... maybe Shearer did a similar thing but Ronaldo won world player in both styles with a few years in between, as I recall
Is Gerd Muller not a candidate? Even if he wasn't as skilled or complete as the others, he was so good at what he did, there is no competition.For all that others could bring to the table, none of them could produce as consistently as Muller did, and his record in big games was almost impeccable.
The thread is about peaks/prime anyway. Ronaldo his second incarnation was overall not at the same level (more so after 2003 or 2004). Ronaldo in his first version reached a high level in all competitions. That he helped to make his team win is backed up by something like his GI rating & some specific events http://www.goalimpact.com/blog//2015/11/top-100-all-time.html
firstly R9 was a striker/FW during his peak and post peak What credit should he recieve for playing in different roles? He was a striker his whole career from beginning till end Secondly R9 did not win the 2002 ballon D’Or for being so patently dominant He won the WC 2002 as a top Scorer and if they could’ve the ballon D’Or would’ve been handed to him straight after the final Not even a player with 100 club goals in a single season+treble can compete against a narrative of a player fighting against the odds and “singlehandedly”leading his country to world dominance Obviously this is the romanticised version of what happened but it is clear R9 did not win the ballon D’Or for anything he achieved at club level If you have any evidence that would point towards the contrary I would like to see it Post prime R9 (ie the one that played for Real Madrid)was never a top 10 player in the world according to ballon D’Or rankings (2003-2005) Btw ballon D’Or rankings are known to favour R9 more than any other player bar possibly zidane in the 1995-2005 period So if he wasn’t seriously considered for top gongs we can deduce from this he was WAY WAY below his prime level 1996-98
In which finals has Romario scored? Now I think of it? It is true both Ronaldo and MvB rank very high in the Corbett and Delaney 'big game scorers' list.
In terms of big game scoring I think Gerd Müller 1973/74 is unreachable Scoring in the World Cup final,European Cup final ,European Cup semifinal I can accept though this may not be his best ever season as he did score more and at a much higher rate in previous seasons(the previous world record of 85 goals in a year was part of his 1972/73 season) I think muller was actually a underrated team player who dropped deeper than perhaps he is given credit for(as shown in other threads for example) He had solid assist stats aswell sometimes leading in assists in Bundesliga I tend to agree with the sentiment that there has never been a better player than Gerd Müller in the 6 yard box His ability to convert half chances into goals was unique
Yes, when I was doing research on older players, both Law and Muller surprised me with how involved they were with their team's buildup play. It's a quality no one highlights when you just read about them, but is blatantly obvious when you actually watch them. Muller's athleticism is also underrated I think. He was nimble, and like many world-class poachers, was pretty deadly over 5 years.
Law was actually famous for his overall game and passing quality; the 1973 book by Tyler and Soar explicitly contrasts this to poachers of the Muller and Hurst type.
Denis law was actually a half playmaker/striker Law started as a inside forward(ie playmaker) and played behind the main striker I think only towards the second part of the 60s did he play more centrally His teammate and Manchester United goalkeeper Harry Greg gives an interesting take on him “When Denis arrived at Old Trafford he was all action, all over the pitch,' said Harry Gregg. 'He was in my eyes, the complete inside forward. Matt Busby, though, had other ideas and I remember the day he transformed Denis into a purely attacking weapon. We had been going through a rough patch, our performances did not match Matt's expectations. Then, during one team talk, he announced, "From now on, Denis Law doesn't come back over the halfway line." I thought to myself, "That's a waste, this guy has so much to offer all over the pitch." In the end Matt was right. Denis went on to become even more of a prolific goalscorer - his 236 goals in 393 games is all the evidence you need". https://books.google.co.uk/books?id... games is all the evidence you need".&f=false What I meant to say is Gerd Müller wasn’t exactly like fillipo inzaghi as a permanent resident in the penalty box He was more like RVN/Romario/greaves as a classic CF who could contribute a little bit outside of scoring and was useful Denis law was a complete forward with a much better all round game
He scored in the hastily organized replay of the final (opponent was very tired and actually wanted it to be played later) and the semi final goal was the late 4-1 (80th minute in second leg). Is that automatically a lot better than what your breakdown shows for peak Ronaldo in finals? (i.e. the late "inconsequential" Lazio goal in final).
Lazio was a mid table side and yes it is true neither player scored crucial goals in either match Gerd Müller does get extra points for scoring an absurdly exquisite chip goal in that replay Also the World Cup final winning goal takes put him in a different category The technique he used to score is often underrated but typical of muller.
I always considered Eusebio a second striker, or inside left. Much like Pele and Puskas from that era. There would usually be a centre forward both for Portugal and Benfica, Jose Torres or Aguas. If you consider him a centre forward then perhaps he is Van Basten's equal. Of the elite centre forwards I have Van Basten, Romario, Ronaldo, Muller and probably Seeler as the top five. Of these and the other ones who are near this level or even at this level, I think MVB is the most well rounded, and his passing, link up play, 'football IQ' is a bit higher than the rest
If we operate a kind of tier system for strikers I think mine would look something like this Tier 1 Eusebio Ronaldo de Lima Marco Van Basten Tier 2 Gerd Müller Sandor kocsis Romario Thierry Henry Uwe Seeler Jimmy Greaves Luís Suarez could join tier 2 with either improved champions league performances or more world class seasons Suarez has up until now been a top 10 player/performer in the world in 2013,2015,2016 and arguably 2017 which is still a lower consistency than a less talented striker like Raul Gonzalez His talent IMO necessities that he is ranked above the strikers in tier 3 but his inconsistent champions league performances perhaps bring him down to their level Tier 3 gunnar nordahl Gabriel batistuta Alan Shearer Andriy shevchenco Robert Lewandowski Hugo Sanchez Zlatan ibrahimovic Samuel Eto’o Luigi riva Raul gonzalez
Yes, I am aware. I'm just saying that if you read up about him via the internet now (which is how people of the new gen lean about him, as none of us has a book from the 1970s to refer to), it is not a part of his game that is highlighted.
I just remember him as a skinny , fast paced striker who linked up really well with the real star of the team , Georgie Best . I recall Law scoring loads of goals though .
Look up 'tiresome' sometime .. As a Manchester lad born in '58 it would be rather difficult to forget Denis Law ... I bet you don't even know what he's famous for besides the huge tally of goals - his saddest moment in football Anyways isn't your constant trolling against forum rules ?? I'll have to make enquiries...