Sorry, I don't mean to be patronizing. Henry doing significant things in both halves is one major premise. Another premise is 'peak' Henry operating in a different time (e.g. 15-20% higher fouls per game as in 2008; 2nd group stage rather than only KO; Porto could win the CL; stricter offside law; weaker teams entering in 2009 etc.). By the time football had moved on, Henry was past his best. Henry still managed to score 4 knock-out goals in 2008-09, his perceived weak point, same number as CR7 his best outing for this decade. Let's also not forget Henry scored 6 more non-penalty goals in 2008-09 as Cristiano in the very same season, while Cristiano was the main man and Henry the #3 in his forward line. Henry had significantly more assists this season, when this is added up the margin becomes +11 in favor of Henry (excluding the domestic cups, the margin increases to +14). Of course, one can legitimately say it is 'harder' in the Premier League and harder to maintain your (scoring) level, but overall Henry is a better fit for this decade as a whole. The very good reference work Marshall Cavendish Encyclopedia on Football (1970) called him "The Dutch master worth a million", not meant as a hyperbole. World transfer record was half of that (a very significant fact and leap!). My analogy does hold. Besides, it was more revolving around the production patterns, analogues to CR7 his cited production peak. This was the main argument (including absence/presence of KO goals) you used for your case. I say: overall it is like saying Pele is the player of the 1950s and so on. Yes and Ronaldo was 'outclassed' in the final (incl. missing penalty) and semi finals (again missing penalty) by other folks. With Ronaldo playing for the better team in both ties; Ajax was not better than Milan, he had a penalty denied. But again, those details miss the general point. .... who all played in vastly different times and contexts. Which to me shows you don't really get the purpose of the thread. I also said I have a slight preference for Cristiano 2007-08 as Henry 2003-04, but on first sight neither of them blows the other out of the water. The word 'hero' shouldn't be thrown around very easily, but if I really want to be annoying I would say 1000 other footballers merit it more than raper ronnie. Fin.
Henry scored 1 KO stage goal between the QF to final of 08/09 CL (the 4th goal in a 4-0 QF win) Literally that is 1 stat padded goal against a totally mediocre Bayern Munich side who finished 2nd place in the totally mediocre Bundesliga which was probably at best the 5th best league in Europe at that time Ronaldo carried Manchester United through the ko stages of the 08/09 CL scoring 3 goals+1 assist between the QF-final(all crucial and not “stat padding”) you already know the details so there is no need to mention them 2.)unless I’m missing something there is no direct correlation between missing a penalty and being outclassed by a unknown player you haven’t even bothered to mention (unless you are saying he was outclassed by cech LOL) Rivera was a better performer than Cruyff in the EC 69 finale while no outfield player outperformed ronaldo in the 2008 CL final So please cease bringing these straw man arguments as there is no equivalence between what ronaldo achieved between 07-10 and what Cruyff achieved in the late 60s Ronaldos champions league exploits in 07/08 blow away anything Henry did in the champions league and specifically in 03/04 In 03/04 Henry scored 2 goals in the CL R16 against Celta Vigo A Celta Vigo that finished 19th place in La Liga In the QF vs Chelsea he did nothing and Arsenal were eliminated In the R16 Ronaldo 07/08 scored the winning goal against Lyon(champions of France) In the QF The winning goal against Roma(2nd place Serie A) And in the final his teams only goal vs Chelsea(2nd place EPL) They aren’t even remotely comparable in the champions (at all) A distinction has to obviously be drawn between what your personal feeling is and what are the facts (ie can be proven conclusively) Ronaldo 07-09 was the most dominant big game player in the champions league Big game”being the key word here because he did not score against cannon fodder (ie a Celta Vigo that finished 19th place In La Liga or a pathetic Bayern Munich side that lost the Bundesliga to Wolfsburg Bearing in mind Wolfsburg 08/09 got destroyed in Europe by a ligue 1 mid table team) Ronaldo made the difference against teams that were either league champions or solidly entrenched in the top 4 of their respective leagues Teams like Lyon,Porto,roma,Arsenal , Rapier Ronnie LOL that did make me chuckle when I read it I always knew you had a devilish side Note: there is no equivalence between what I’m saying and someone claiming Pele even had a outside chance to be considered best player of the 50s. I’m sorry to say but that is a terrible analogy Who was he going to dethrone exactly? Alfredo Di Stéfano with 5 European cups+4 league titles in the 1950s I don’t think so In the 50s Pele had won: 0 Copa Libertadores 1 state championship 1 World Cup as arguably the 4th best player behind didi,kopa and Just Fontaine So unless you think there is a argument that 1 World Cup as your teams second best player >5 European cups+4 league titles largely as the main protagonist than your Pele analogy also doesn’t hold
Is this detail so relevant that we really see a massive difference arising here? Is scoring against Lyon and Bayern that much worse than goals against Porto, Arsenal (poetgooner's previous comments tell enough) or Internazionale (like Arsenal for a long time a systematic underachiever in Europe)? It is not like Henry scored his 4 knock-out goals against Apollon Limassol and CR7 his goals against AC Milan. If so, how about the domestic scoring exploits? Cristiano Ronaldo in 2008-09 remained scoreless against the rest from the top five (excluding penalties); past his prime Thierry Henry scored one or more goals against each of the top five teams of his league (incl. two against Real Madrid, three Atletico Madrid). What is the larger picture for this decade and for this season? Not really true per the player ratings. There is at many levels and contexts indeed little equivalence. Ronaldo played for the 2nd richest team in the world while the other did for one of the very smallest teams to reach a final - a team that demonstrably 'collapsed' without his presence. Individually he also very consistently shined against 'big' teams (Liverpool, Real Madrid, England etc.). None of that matters really for the general point. I don't say Pelé is the best player of the 1950s decade, I say that would be the same erroneous call (you were primarily not looking at team achievements by the way, but for player level and player peak production !!). Let me repeat your own words here: "I reiterate once more both Cristiano Ronaldo And Lionel Messi reached a much higher level of performance in 09/19 [at club level] that it no longer even matters if Henry was good in both halves of the decade" So indeed that would be like saying Pele is the best of the 1950s decade and Cruijff the best European of the 1960s (cf. point on Rivera, Eusebio production in their best EC outing).
I think you are deliberately ignoring the point I raised Henry scored 1 KO goal in the QF to Final of the 08/09 champions league That one goal was the 4th goal in a 4-0 home win vs Bayern Munich That’s all he did ...literally La Liga in 08/09 was a complete joke compared to the EPL The 2nd best team in England completely dismantled Real Madrid in the champions league 5-0 Barcelona managed to beat Chelsea only with the help of the ref Atlético Madrid were just a typically mediocre team etc Scoring against a top 4 side in Spain in 08/09 would be the equivalent of scoring against a mid level side in the epl Henry’s CL goals were never evenly spread out like Eusebio hence the reason I don’t understand why you insist on using this strange analogy Eusébio 64/65 scored 3 goals in the QF vs Real Madrid 2 goals in the SF before losing narrowly to inter in the final The most QF to Final European Cup goals Cruyff scored in a single season during the 60s was 4(in 1968/69) Still one short of Eusébios haul of 5 in 64/65 In addition to the above Eusebio scored 2 goals in the 62 European Cup final vs Real Madrid Cruyff in the 60s never did score a goal in European Cup finals Going even further than this prime Eusebio had demonstrably greater league campaigns+international performances then Cruyff ever did during the 60s So like I said your analogy does not hold Just so we don’t lose sight of things Thierry Henry in his entire career never scored more than 1 goal during the QF to final stages of the champions league Ronaldo scored 3 in 06/07 2 in 07/08 And 3 in 08/09 So let’s not deviate onto other topics and players As for 2009/10 it is my personal opinion (and I’m not going to attempt to convince you) that it was a top 3 season in the career of Cristiano Ronaldo Essentially by default a considerably better campaign than any version of Henry ever managed Messi scored 47 goals in 09/10 a feat that had not been reached in Europe by any player since R9 96/97 So already we are talking about all timers and clear standout players of their era and they weren’t even in their mid twenties Henry’s first world class season came when he was 26 years old(in 2002/03) Apples and pears comparison really
The point on knockout goals in general or your moving of the goalposts to QF and beyond? (suddenly a goal against Inter in KO stages doesnt count anymore but a goal against Porto does). Does this detail really matter? What does it change? You are endlessly flipfloping. On the Eusebio seasonal thing: as if CR7 had the most QF to final goals in the 2000s, single season.... Nope... Sigh... I quit with this. Now really.
Sorry that I was a bit rude. I will explain myself better so that I don't get misunderstood here. Your criteria was initially 'knockout goals' (we have covered that). Now it is moved to 'QF to final' goals. But for what reason exactly? Is scoring against Inter in a 'do or die' game ceteris paribus so much easier than scoring against Arsenal or Porto? That 'QF to final' makes more sense for more recent years, doesn't mean it was always like that. Besides, by that criteria CR7 has 'only' 2 KO goals in 2007-08 as well, and Ronaldo was the main shot taker. Thierry Henry has 29 goals in the first group stage (58 games) and 21 in the remainder (54 games). How is that enormously imbalanced? Why now excluding knockout matches against the German, Spanish and English champs? It is not like he was playing against the champions from Luxembourg. Include those rounds and it is what I said: he was more productive as Eusebio's and Rivera's best EC outings in the same decade. Factor in the context (small club also compared to Benfica of that time, etc.) and it is a good achievement. The same thing more or less holds for Cristiano in the 00s, next to other players, and that is what I said. We don't call Pelé the best player of the 1950s either. It is by the way not a clear cut case that Eusebio his 42 league goals (incl. penalties) is that much better than Cruijff his 33 league goals (who did not take pens). When the whole context is factored in. In the same way, Cristiano his 42 goals of 2007-08 (in all competitions) is not immediately better as Salah his 44 goals, RvN his 44 goals (as lone striker, not as good ManUnited team), Henry his 39 goals and RvP his 38 goals (for a fairly poor team, one might say, naturally more assists too). I hope this again underlines the idea of the thread. That is maybe right but he really took off in the 2nd half of 2009-10, and there was a two months injury in the first half. So even if one thinks "peak surpasses everything" (how good was his 2010 World Cup by the way?), it does not apply here.
A winning goal scored in a CL QF( A goal that was voted best of the year on planet earth )isn’t a remotely comparable to penalty area finishes in the CL second round I hope that is clear because everything has to be discussed in the correct context Henry never did in his career what ronaldo managed to do in the KO stages of the 08/09 champions league Period Ronaldo “only” scored 2 goals in the the CL QF to final of 07/08 But guess what? Henry never scored more than 1 and that 1 goal that he did score in 08/09 was inconsequential to the final result (a “stat padded” goal going by the now accepted categorisation of goals introduced by Barcelona fanboys) Ronaldos best period in 09-10 was the beginning part (till his injury)and also towards the tail end. In the beginning(ie first half of the season and specifically before his injury against Marseille) He was the highest ranked player in the champions league+la Liga according to whoscored Towards the very end of the season when Madrid where running Barcelona down for the title he was pulling out genius moments out of thin air Overall he was a complete beast completing 3.3 dribbles per 90 from the CF position (albeit a free roaming one) Covered the most ground by any outfield player in Spain Was the most fouled player in Europe 2nd Most key passes in La Liga after Xavi DBS calcio+whoscored confirm he was very close to Messi’s prime level this season in La Liga in terms of all round influence Messi took all the plaudits firstly for having won the league by 1 point and for playing 16 more games(and as a consequence had more chances to shine unlike CR who was a pariah in Spain ,largely unprotected by refs and a victim of media bias) You cannot accuse me of shifting the goalposts and then do that yourself. Before we completely loose sight of things let’s bring those back to the original point Henry reached a high level in the early part of the decade 2002-2006 Ronaldo reached an even higher level in 2007-2010 This is substantiated by every single relevant source material available Ronaldo 07-10 had more Ballon D’Or top 5 rankings than Henry did in his career He had more ESM team of the month rankings than Henry had in his career More goals+assists in CL QF to finals than Henry had in his career Overall he was just a completely more dominant player in the latter half than Henry was in the first half Ronaldo also had high points from 2003-2006 that we haven’t even touched upon Team of the tournament euro 2004 FA Cup final MOTM 2004 PFA team of the season 05/06 Top 15 Ballon D’Or 2006 The above achievements at the very least equal if not outstrip any level reached by Henry from 2007-2010 (Including 08/09 where he just largely stat padded on a team that scored 150 goals)
@PuckVanHeel The Pele analogy you really insist on using does not hold Pele in the 50s scored a lot of goals on one of the biggest super teams ever(in history) Santos scored 354 goals in 103 matches during 1959 (which was Pelés highest scoring season) He scored 126 goals which is a lot but nowhere near to be being as influential or important as that goal tally suggests Literally he scored 36% of his teams total goals He was essentially a luxury player who stat padded on a team that scored 3.43 goals per match (and without his goals Santos still managed to score at the same rate as Bayern Munich with Gerd Muller) There is no case for Pele even being a top 3 player of the 50s Not on prime level and definitely not on consistency Especially when there are players like Alfredo Di Stéfano in the mix who during his prime propelled Real Madrid to 5 European cups and was the best player in at least 4 of them What reputable competition did Pele win in the 50s in which he was the clear cut best player? I can’t recall any The levels of competition are much,much lower with Henry This is a guy who won 2 league titles for Arsenal in the 2000s In the first Robert pires was their best player and he was only the clear cut best player in one league title 2003/04 For Barcelona he was a bit part player and according to most sources the 5th best player on the Barcelona treble winning team Ronaldo is not going up against a player who had legendary individual achievements. Henry was a great and consistent league performer during his prime But That’s it ,he wasn’t a great champions league player or international player even within the context of his own era
Season 1966/67 League:eredivisie Goal average:3.14 goals per game Player:Johan Cruyff Stats:33 goals in 30 appearences Percentage of teams goals: 27% involvement(out of 122 league goals) Season 1966/67 League Primera División(POR) Goal average:2.64 goals per match Player:Eusebio Stats:31 goals in 26 games Percentage of teams goals: 48%(out of 64 team goals) Eusebio played in a much more defensive league this season and on a team that scored around 50% less goals than Ajax I believe Cruyff started his career in the 60s as a CF (or even at a stretch as a FW like Eusebio) So they can be directly compared in terms of impact and influence The only possible way Eusébios huge advantage could be mitigated is if 15-20 of his 31 leagues goals were penalties which I highly doubt (but at the same time cannot prove) In any case I think cruyffs highest scoring season was a bit of an outlier due to the 66/67 edition of eredivisie being a very high scoring season 122 league goals for Ajax has to be some sort of single season record for a Dutch team I’m assuming Cruyff never scored 30 league goals in his career again when the league average dropped below 3 goals per match which imo proves he wasn’t an elite scorer like Eusebio
.... Take the highest scoring league season of both players please, then I return. I am not going to debate this. You are again moving goalposts. And you don't see the overall point.
Eusébio 1966-1967 scored a lot of penalties. You can see here of 31 Goals in the Portuguese League that season, 13 were penalties. So he scored 31-13= 18 Non-PK Goals of 64 Benfica Goals = 28,12%. All Pelé's goals in 1959 were Non-PK Goals (Pepé scored a lot of penalties tho) Official Matches you already have his numbers: Pelé was usually the best rated player in Copa America 1959, topscorer of the tournament, Brazilian topscorer in 1957, 1958, 1959, Best player of São Paulo State League (and Brazil, the proper Rio de Janeiro media said that about 1959) in these years (Remember that São Paulo state already had close to 13 million inhabitants this time, it wasn't like Portugal that has 10 million today and had no footballer culture back 50's). Brazilian NT topscorer in the World Cup 1958 and arguably the best player of the tournament with Garrincha, Didi, Bellini and Nilton Santos (no major difference between the level of these players, all reported to be a level ahead of other players), Kopa and Fontaine were outplayed by many Brazilian players in head-to-head and has no place in this discussion. In general, any Portuguese player, whether playing in that league of beggars of Portugal or playing in a superclass team that allows a player 10 shots per game because that player is marketable even disappearing in finals. Any Portuguese player is and will be inferior to Pelé. But at least Eusebio has one respectable World Cup, something that someone like Cristiano Ronaldo lacks.
GTFO with your Pele propaganda No Brazilian player is/wasn’t/will be comparable to CRs record at the highest level That is a fact that won’t be changed by goals scored in military drills or against state championship teams like fake juventus Your source for Eusébios penalties is anonymous and most likely from Spanish Wikipedia lol Were is the video footage of peles goals in 1959 for you to say he never scored penalties? Last time I checked Pelé was syphoning money from Unicef in the 2000s and not actually playing football So let’s keep this on topic Tropeiro
Okay puck I don’t want to go around in circles probably no more than you do Let’s not go off discussing tangents and stick to the topic at hand I’m going to attempt to keep this as brief as possible 1.)it is my personal opinion that if a players peak is great enough and relatively long (3-4 years) it is enough for him to be regarded best player of an entire decade if nobody else in that decade played at the same or similar level Between 2007-2010 ronaldo put on 3 seasons whe was a unanimous top 2 player in Europe 2006/07,2007/08 and 2009/10 There is no other player during the 2000-2010 Period that can share that distinction (Messi wasn’t even the unanimous best player in La Liga in 2006/07 or 2007/08 so that eliminates him from the running automatically) You accept ronaldo 07/08 put on a greater season in EPL than Henry( to what degree isn’t relevant what matters is we have some common ground) You seemingly aren’t as convinced about we he did before or just after(during the 2000s) So I will attempt to refresh your memory or shed some light on facts you weren’t previously aware of Ronaldo entered the 2006/07 season as a pariah in England the most hated man in the country since David Beckham 98/99 Booed at every single away stadium every time he touched a ball for the duration of an entire season he reached a unreal level and literally obliterated defences singlehandedly Remembering Cristiano ronaldo was 21 years old this season and from the wing put up superior stats than prime Luis Figo who was in his mid to late 20s in the late 90s and very early 2000s Other than ronaldo there is nobody who has played in the EPL that has been directly compared to all time great players in absolute terms In 2006/07 Bobby Charlton said in absolute terms ronaldo had reached the level of Sir Tom Finney and Stanley Matthews ,the 2 most talented players in English football history Gary Lineker who is known to be to be less than cordial in his views about CR especially since he became such a polarising player at Real Madrid said the same thing in 2006/07 Ronaldo is still young at 22, but I believe that if he continues on this trajectory of development, he could become one of the greatest players ever. He has been unbelievable this season Watching him this season I've witnessed acts of manipulation of a football that verge on the physically impossible. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...becoming-one-of-the-greatest-of-all-time.html You are familiar with the EPL I Assume and the rivalry that went on Between Manchester United and Chelsea in the mid to late 2000s Despite this we have players like prime Drogba and prime Terry coming out in 2007 and saying a 21 year old ronaldo is above everyone else with no discussion https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....drog-hails-ronaldo_sto1177721/story-amp.shtml https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-448976/Terry-Ronaldos-best-world.html At the end of 2007/08 he was a all time great Btw this this isn’t revisionism in the slightest(I can link you articles from Gabriel marcotti in 2008 that say the exact same thing https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/12/03/cristiano-ronaldo And Quotes from Johan Cruyff,Bobby Charlton,SAF etc saying the same thing A comparison between Henry and ronaldo at Manchester United is flawed from the start Ronaldo 06-08 was a magician with the ball at his feet,allied with his athleticism and propensity to dominate the entire opposition half he was just the best player I’ve ever seen play in England The analogy of all these great players from previous generations doesn’t make sense for one simple reason Henry did not reach a high enough level during his peak for one to say he is a shoe in or player of the decade(and what he achieved after his prime wasn’t that impressive) Johan Cruyff could not play a single game after the WC 74 final and he would still be regarded as the standout player of the 70s This is despite the fact maradona/zico/Rummenigge appeared in the latter half as elite players but definitely not as good or influential as Cruyff was during 71-74 Eusebio put on multiple legendary campaigns in the 60s ,was dominant in the CL against legendary opposition and had a phenomenal showing in a World Cup Nothing Cruyff did could surpass Eusebio in the 60s Henry was just a great league performer,his greatness did not exceed this level hence the analogies of previously legendary players doesn’t make sense The fact that the 2004 confederation Cup is commonly used as evidence of his greatness at international level essentially proves my point Consistency will not help you against a player that reached a much higher peak level Unless you think Giggs>everyone else In EPL (Based on playing more games and winning more trophies) I don’t subscribe to that way of thinking The actual best player during Henry’s peak, Ronaldinho has a better case imo You already know my views on the subject so there’s nothing more to Be added
Are you now backing off? Tropeiro showed to you above Eusebio did in fact have many penalties for that specific league season, which was a good season for him (1966-67). Take those penalties away and the gap disappears, and that before going into things as league opponents and the difference in role (as shown by the assists, too). I took him as an example precisely because he is so strong for the decade as a whole. In the end, it is not so difficult for me: 2000-01: Henry (Henry aged 24 at end season, Ronaldo 16) 02: Henry (25, 17) 03: Henry (26, 18) 04: Henry (27, 19) 05: Henry (28, 20) 06: Henry (29, 21) 07: Cristiano (30, 22) 08: Cristiano (31, 23) 09: Henry (32, 24) In the same way there are a few years where Pelé was better in the 1950s as Puskas/Di Stefano (maybe), with higher peaks (maybe), but overall it is not more than one or two at best. Cruijff was very arguable better as Eusebio in 67 (also check the EC displays, output for 67) and 69, but that doesn't make him the European guy of the 1960s. That's precisely the point. All those things about Eusebio's World Cup and how that creates a distance in career, yes, very true, but very similar things also apply to Cristiano in the 00s. End of discussion. And now I really mean this!!!
Please elaborate on the part highlighted in bold Which tremendous international performances did Henry have in the 2000s that would mitigate the obvious difference in quality between their respective peaks? You are Just creating an infinite number of strawman arguments none of which stick Henry being stronger in the 2000-2010 period isn’t substantiated by anything except your word You provide No sources,no quotes,no match ratings etc To conclude I understand your argument but don’t agree with it all ,which essentially leaves us at a standstill. But here is Some food for thought , if consistency and/or displaying a great level in both parts of a decade makes you a prime contender for best player of that decade than explain the validity of these awards given to players not named Cristiano Ronaldo 1.)R9 was officially voted best player of Serie A 1997-2007(FACT) That was despite playing only 88 league matches (the equivalent of around 3 full seasons in both his stints in Italy) Where is the consistency and where is the evidence of him playing at a high level throughout this decade? I’m fully aware you did not take part in this vote but considering this was an official award given to a contemporary all timer, this essentially proves my point. A lower peak+consistency isn’t always considered greater than a higher peak+slightly lesser consistency If that was the case then Francisco totti,Del piero shevchenko And even Kaká 04-07 should’ve had better arguments than R9 for that accolade But they weren’t because it was (correctly) judged that what R9 did In his first two seasons(and particularly the first) was enough for him to be considered a better player than the aforementioned players who had multiple world class seasons during that decade
You accuse me now of things, forcing me to set things straight. I have given enough reasons for why Thierry Henry was *in my opinion* in 2008-09 better as Cristiano Ronaldo. Significantly more (non-PK) goals, more assists, same amount of CL KO stages goals, scoring against each of the top 5 league opponents while CR7 had 0 goals against the top five of his league. And Thierry Henry did also a fair bit of the un-glamorous work with many dummy runs (see the recent documentary on this). Goals are not the only thing, but overall TH14 was more important and crucial. If you want match ratings: both CR7 and TH14 had each one ESM selection in 2008-09. "No sources" is bullocks. Del Piero and Shevchenko were not even nominated so what are you talking about? Why were they not nominated? Because it was a 'contest' between all the previous footballer of the year winners. Of those, Ronaldo was seen as having the best year among the other best years (literally the "champion among [previous] champions"). Interestingly, none of the nominees won the Champions League in that year and 8 of the 11 nominees (i.e. former footballers of the year) weren't league winners in their respective year. That is very beneficial for Ronaldo his chances. I would also say that Ronaldo his injury might give cause to some leniency (right or wrong).
Since you didn’t bother to provide any sources for your claims Source 1 Ballon dor 2009 CR7:2nd place Henry:15th place https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Ballon_d'Or Source 2 Goal.com top 50 players 2008/09 CR7:2nd place TH14:20th place https://www.goal.com/en/news/2466/goal-50/2009/07/13/1366592/goalcom-top-50-players-of-2008-09 Source 3 https://www.uefa.com/community/teamoftheyear/history/season=2009/index.html Votes cast by 320,000 fans included CR7 in team of the season Henry did not make the cut Source 4 FIFA World player of the year CR7:2nd TH14:? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Player_of_the_Year Etc.......... CR7 scored 26 goals+12 assists on a team that scored 118 goals:32% direct involvement Henry scored 26 goals+11 assists on a team that scored 154 goals: 24% direct involvement CR7 played in the EPL which was unanimously regarded as the elite league competition in Europe Henry 08/09 did not No matter how hard you try not to it seems as if you are being effortlessly disingenuous Henry 08/09 scored as many KO stage goals as CR7(this is even more misleading than when you said Henry scored more CL goals than Messi+ronaldo combined in The 2000s) In the 08/09 CL QF to final round Barcelona scored 8 goals Henry scored 1 of those goals ie the 4th goal in a 4-1 first leg QF home win against Bayern Munich In other words he did close to nothing During the QF to final rounds of the 08/09 CL season Ronaldo won the QF with a puskas goal of the year and a top 10 goal in champions league history(officially recognised as such and not just my word) He won the semifinals singlehandedly with 2 goals+1 assist in a 4-1 aggregate win He was the highest rated Manchester United player in the CL final ranked as such by all sources He played up front as a lone CF with no service and was for substantial periods of the game the most dangerous man on the pitch Henry? This was another night when, apart from one flash of brilliance, the former Arsenal player could not illuminate one of football's big occasions 6 https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....27/barcelona-manchester-united-player-ratings Pretty much Same old story Big European games come around and Henry goes M.I.A Was the the same at Arsenal hence the reason he cannot be considered a truly great player he was only a great footballer within the context of league football (Like,Shearer,ibrahimovic,Luigi riva,greaves or even Giuseppe Signori who was no Less than Henry with the same physical attributes (and was in fact a winger when he top Scored in Italy in the early 90s. Signori was also a significantly better dribbler and crosser of the ball than Henry during his prime, outscored batistuta,baggio and their ilk etc... I don’t want to go off discussing tangents but there it is That is his rank. Yeah henry most probably leads this category for having a longer longevity but that’s it He was a generational talent not all time and nobody considered him as such either A player like Henry cannot be considered a prime contender for player of the decade This is a player who never scored a single goal in champions league semifinals or finals(and played in many) Never scored more than 1 goal from the CL QF to final rounds Played on the most stacked international team in Europe and never dominanted a tournament Even with zidane creating a shit load of chances Henry’s finishing always escaped him on the big stage. Zidane is unfairly criticised for never having assisted Henry when the truth of the matter is Henry is as much to blame Zidane assisted 14 different teammates at international level but not Henry And there are some here who claim the logical inference to be drawn is zidane did not like him or never wanted him to have the spotlight That is total BS (Check if zidane ever had a problem assisting R9 ,matter of fact he did so heavily particularly during 2002/03 in the league+CL with many assists and pre assist involvements) Note: The ESM ranking source you referenced is really a can of worms you shouldn’t have opened Thierry Henry 1999-2000 1 2001-2 1 2002-3 2 2003-4 5 2004-5 1 2005-6 1 2008-9 1 Total 12 Cristiano Ronaldo 2004-5 2 2006-7 4 2007-8 7 2008-9 1 2009-10 2 Total:14 https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/esm-team-of-the-month-the-complete-listing.2033633/ CR7 24 years old>>Henry whole career According to the one source you actually choose to reference
@PuckVanHeel This is Thierry Henry in April 2009 when asked who is the best player in Europe First of all, you have to take into account that Leo [Messi] and Cristiano Ronaldo are different players," For sure they can play on any position from the midfield up, they both have extraordinary technique, but they are different. "And, if Messi is scoring more goals nowadays, Ronaldo is a player that has scored more and topped the scoring charts last season. "Then, the greatness of a player is measured by the titles he has helped his team conquer. Therefore, I have to recognise that Cristiano Ronaldo is better than Leo Messi." "I honestly understand why there are those who compare Messi to Maradona but I repeat: at least right now, Cristiano Ronaldo is the best. In the future we will see." https://www.goal.com/en/news/1706/barcelona/2009/04/13/1207280/henry-ronaldo-better-than-messi
Remarkably, Cristiano Ronaldo his own tailor made ranking (frequently cited by Carlito) rated Henry ahead of him, October 2009: https://m.rediff.com/sports/2009/oct/30castrol-football-rankings-cristiano-ronaldo-thierry-henry.htm (not to be confused with the ones made for the World Cup, those are different) Unsurprisingly, Henry had also the far better national team output in 2009, while Cristiano scored only against Finland. Is Cristiano the greater player? Most probably. But not for this era...
Castrol can never be taken as primary source material but only along with something else more substantive Castrol did in fact rank R9 02 as the best World Cup performances ever LOL I find it slightly rude that I answer all your questions or at least attempt to the best of my knowledge But you always pick and choose and always create strawman arguments and we end up talking about Eusebio/Cruyff and or other players who were vastly superior to Henry Please address the following 1.)ESM is a source material you referenced yourself so explain how a 24 year old CR had more ESM rankings than Henry had in his career 98-09 2.)Thierry Henry explicitly said Ronaldo 2008/09 was the best player in the world Better than himself,better than Messi Ballon D’Or rankings confirm his high status and so do most other sources (except Castrol) Are we to ignore everything else and just rely on this Be consistent in your arguments and tell me that R9 02>Cruyff 74 If you do I have nothing more to add Lastly one point of yours I did not address with regards to ronaldo s record vs the top 4 Ronaldo scored 1 goal+2 assists in 5 games against top 4 teams in 08/09 He also had a wrongly disallowed goal vs Chelsea Giggs whipped a cross to Ronaldo who headed the ball authoritatively home. However, either both referee Howard Webb and his assistant failed to understand the trick or Rooney's failure to explain it to them in advance meant the subsequent goal was ruled out. It was a lucky escape for Chelsea, whose frailty at set-pieces is quickly becoming problematic... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2009/jan/11/manchester-united-chelsea So in reality it should’ve been 2 goals+2 assists in 5 matches against top 4 teams in the league Lastly there is no equivalence to be drawn between scoring against a La Liga top 4 in 08/09 and the premiership equivalent Real Madrid was throughly dismantled by Liverpool in the CL by a aggregate score of 5-0 TH14s record vs top 4 Spanish teams should be respectfully compared to CR7s record vs mid table teams in EPL In the champions league KO stage Ronaldo scored winners against Inter Milan (Italian champions) Porto(Portuguese champions) Arsenal (4th place EPL) Btw puck you are the first to claim Henry was on par with ronaldo in 08/09 I respect your opinion but I just hope your not trolling or being purposefully argumentative
And did jackshit in CL final when he faced Messi lmfao. It’s a factual that 2008-09 Messi was the best player in the world and that season honestly brought him to limelight worldwide(among non footballing countries).
Replace CR7 with Pele, and he wouldn't be able to do much either. The gap between Barcelona and Man Utd that night was way too big.
CR7 was also unimpressive against the weaker 2007-08 Barca in both the legs. In fact 20 year old Messi was more impressive than Ronaldo.