Best players of 18/19 season

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by AD78, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
  2. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I assume you can't win both the best player and the best positional award? Otherwise, it'd make no sense for Ronaldo to not also win best striker.
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I already posted that info above..... I even quoted/tagged you there...
     
  4. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Wasn't your post a tweet of the same information? I don't recall an answer to my question in your post :D
     
  5. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Ah, sorry. I hadn't seen that.
     
  6. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    Or maybe they judge each position against different stats (eg. a defender gets more value for blocks or clearances than an attacker) but Ronaldo tops out overall. I'm not sure.
     
  7. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    AD78 repped this.
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    This is a team made by a VI journalist who has watched "hundreds of matches" (kudos btw how he despite his foreign background speaks without an accent)



    (there was each week a "team of the week")

    VI's Süleyman Özturk watched hundreds of matches this season and put together his best eleven of the past season. He discusses them with his loyal sidekick behind the camera Ruben Aartsen. [I included in parentheses the other options he mentions]

    His team:
    Jan Oblak (Allison)
    Andrew Robertson
    Virgil van Dijk
    Joshua Kimmich (Alexander-Arnold)
    Bernardo Silva
    Frenkie de Jong (Thiago, Busquets)
    Dani Parejo
    Raheem Sterling (Hazard)
    Fabio Quagliarella
    Kylian Mbappe
    Lionel Messi

    On the bench:
    Matthijs de Ligt
    Allison Becker
    Jadon Sancho (Ronaldo)
    Georginio Wijnaldum ("bit of chauvinism here")



    Some of the comments by him are very good, others less so in my opinion. Takes too much time to summarize it all but if there are certain questions on reasoning it's possible to translate those.
     
    Titanlux, comme and PDG1978 repped this.
  10. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    A few notable things jump out there:
    - The top 3 for passes in the final 3rd in Spain being Barcelona players (all on the same team)!
    - Hazard's ratio of passes in the final 3rd to take-ons completed exceeding Messi's (surprising for this season maybe?) - Chelsea's main tactic seemingly confrirmed as "pass to Hazard" anyway!
    - Salah getting less than half his shots on target, but having the most shots on target in the league!
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Yes there was an article in the New York Times a few days ago on the Liverpool data/analytics department and there they were asked which common perception is the least wrong (according to their crunching - some of them deliberately don't watch the matches itself). Their answer was Messi because "as possible number two you are only one place off the mark".

    This is maybe also interesting (and indeed confirms Hazard is less prone to losing the ball, if they're correct):
    https://www.sport-english.com/en/ne...-similar-to-lionel-messi-per-big-data-7464360

    Although one can't really add two leagues together (and individual stats are also a product of the team...), many have noticed if you combine PL and PD together that then Messi 'only' leads in 8 of the 15 categories.

    http://www.sportbible.com/football/...p-of-the-stats-in-the-premier-league-20190521
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...Lionel-Messi-NOT-dominant-Premier-League.html
    https://www.sportskeeda.com/footbal...have-been-so-dominant-if-he-played-in-england

    Anyway, for my money Pele and Messi are within their context the two most dominant attackers of the television era (while Cruijff was, and to some degree still is, easily the biggest difference maker - I really don't understand those 'Big Four' folks who think G. Muller [not playing in Europe] was better than him in 1969... it's like Krankl (who played in a continental final) > Maradona).
     
    PDG1978 repped this.
  12. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I don't understand the difference here.

    Are you saying that Pele and Messi were the best at taking their teams to the highest-highs (ie. dominance), while Cruyff was at transforming a lesser team (ie. difference-maker)?
     
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord


    He's streaky but this (balanced) delivery is fairly good.
     
  14. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    In a nutshell that's more or less the distinction yes, but then in a more general sense rather than where the team/teams was standing.
     
  15. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #240 carlito86, May 25, 2019
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
    Can you elaborate on this?
    Surely the biggest difference makers and the most dominant players are one and the same thing

    If one was the analyse in complete isolation the career of cruyff at Barcelona ,ignoring what came before or after it how would you rank it from a historical perspective?
    How integral is it to his legacy(did it enhance or strengthen it)
     
  16. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I don't think so. For a part that is because it is a team sport, for a part because circumstances and background are not the same.

    Will do this elaboration at a more appropriate place.
     
  17. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018
    TOP5 Leagues: Messi, Hazard, Cristiano, Mbappe and Lewandowski according Offensive Value Added.

     
  18. Tropeiro

    Tropeiro Member+

    Jun 1, 2018


     
  19. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I don't understand any of the variable in this table. Is there like some sort of explanation of what each one means? :D
     
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  21. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    :laugh: :whistling:



    "You could wait for that: after the relegation of Germany in the Nations League, today in Baku UEFA adjusts the tournament setup a bit. At the next edition (2020-21), 16 countries will be in the top division, divided into four groups of four. Germany therefore returns to group A."



    "If the important countries do not make it, we just make sure that they make it. Just turn it into a closed system, then everyone will know where it stands. Because in fact that closed system is there anyway."

    -----

    https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...a-president-aleksander-ceferin-a-1269128.html

    I wonder what they will do with the seeding (big advantage). As it stands Spain and Germany miss out to be seeded, but UEFA and FIFA always make amends to their own system.
     
  23. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
  24. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    This was L’Equipe’s team of the season based on their average ratings.

     

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