I'm not sure what the criterion are for said rankings and/or how much weight is given to each factor listed, but I can definitively tell you Magic, Sockers and Scott Gallagher are ALL better clubs than say, for instance, Carmel United. I've reffed ALL of the above. furthermore, this ranking is for CLUB teams only, not necessarily high school sides, which was the subject of the thread. Many of these club teams are all star squads comprised of players from various states. Furthermore, GA may have one SOLID club, but the Chicago area has at least FOUR at that level...all competing for the same players. Now I'm not necessarily excluding the possibility that a high school from georgia could compete with big name schools from the traditional "power" states...I'm sure they could, but top to bottom NO COMPARISON. And that makes all the difference in the world, especially when it comes to state titles and national rankings. I saw it in the neighboring state I reffed in. Their state champ (lets call them blue) was certainly a good team, and could give any team in Chicago a run for its money...but they also played a cupcake schedule during the regular season and all through the playoffs (came from a weak regional) until they got downstate to the final four. While the five-six downstate teams beat each others brains in and knocked each other out, blue coasted to the final four well rested and won two games to claim the title. Were they the best team in the state? Probably not...they lost their only two regular season games against downstate opponents, but since all the downstate teams beat each others brains in and knocked each other out, they coasted in the final four. Same thing happened in IL. Rockford Boylan came from a relatively weak supersectional to claim a spot in the final four and in fact had several nail biters on the way there. I was at the IL final four sitting with a D2 coach, and we BOTH agreed that Naperville North (despite the fact they weren't even the best team in Naperville, LOL) and Libertyville were the two best teams there...but guess what? Rockford won the title, with a little bit of luck and some controversial calls/non calls. Meanwhile, the two best teams I saw all year in IL, Morton and Lyons Township, were knocked out in the round of sixteen and round of eight respectively (Lyons knocked off Morton). In IL, the four winners of supersectionals go "downstate" to the final four. The Hinsdale Central supersectional featured Morton, Lyons Township, Nequa Valley, Naperville North and Downers Grove North, IMO five of the top eight teams I saw all year. So while they were busy beating each others brains in, Rockford coasted through some fairly easy groupings to get to the final four. They played two solid, but unspectacular, Chicago schools on the way there...and barely won by 1-0 margins in both games. Rockford then overcame a two goal deficit in pks (unheard of) to get by Edwardsville in the first semi final...and then beat a shorthanded Libertyville (their best mdifielder was red carded in the other semi final) in the final in OT, albeit with some controversy (refereeing). Would Boylan have been able to do so if they were in the Hinsdale Central supersectional? I highly doubt it. In fact, I'd bet my house not. Nonetheless, as a result of this state final "crapshoot", three teams which I believe merited national ranking consideration (Morton, Lyons Township, Nequa Valley) were left out in the cold. Would the same happen in a place like Georgia? I highly doubt it. California? Yes. New Jersey, Texas? Yes. Too many good teams and too many opportunities to stub your toe in power states. THAT is the difference.
I included the club rankings to make a point, given your statements it is amazing that a Georgia squad was even there (and ahead of all but one of your teams). I don't understand why you then extrapolate that there is just one solid club, using that logic and the rankings provided Chicago has only one solid club because that is all that is ranked in the top 20. We both know that is not true though, that beyond the Fire there are a number of competitive squads around the city. The same is true for ATL. Check out population of ATL some time (metro area), you may be confused that they are similar size to a Nashville or Birmingham... Anyways, the elitism isn't new but silly and happens no matter where you live.
I'm not sure what "elitism" you reference. I'm speaking from over 40 years experience as a player (high school, club, NCAA D1, amateur) coach, and referee. I've also lived in various parts of the country. IMO, the top 3-4 soccer hotbeds in the country (California, Texas, Illinois, NY/NJ) RIGHTFULLY have that reputation...because that's where the most talent is and where the most competitive soccer is played, top to bottom. If that's so because of population, so be it. It also happens to be where soccer has the greatest and richest tradition and history in the US. This doesn't mean there aren't other parts of the country where good soccer is played and/or very good teams reside. In fact, the St. Louis area has some players/teams that can flat out compete against anyone in the country...and I'm fairly certain the St. Louis metro area is smaller than its Atlanta counterpart. The Seattle area is another part of the country where some good soccer is played. Ohio as well...and Michigan isn't bad either. That being said, if you're compiling NATIONAL high school rankings and pooling all the teams together, it would be laughable to think that the big four shouldn't/wouldn't dominate those rankings. Slice it and dice it any way you want, but on a day in day out basis, schools from the aforementioned "top" areas play against the best competition. That should mean something, and it does.
Here is what you said, "I also think if you put all high schools together in either the spring or fall, schools from places like Nebraska, Iowa, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Georgia, etc.....would have a hell of a time cracking any top "whatever #" list." I think you used to wide of a brush but just can't admit it. From the top club rankings it is not out of the reach of a club from Georgia to rank on "whatever # list." My post was stating that while Georgia teams dominate the rankings of top HS teams it is because they play Spring ball (obviously if it was the fall they would probably one maybe two listings). To the rest of your comments, I never made the point that states like California or Texas wouldn't dominate the rankings. You can see it in the list of top soccer clubs. If anything though I would say I am not impressed with Chicago soccer any more than I am other parts of the country like NC/Charlotte or GA/Atlanta. It may be slightly better, but not the pedestal you are putting them on.
LOL! Ok, whatever you say.....btw, I also included NY/NJ in the top four. Maybe you don't think THEY'RE any better than NC or GA also? LOL. Look at youth regionals, national championships, number of players in pros/colleges...and if you can sit there with a straight face and tell me places like Charlotte and Atlanta are on par with NY/NJ and Chicago, I would suggest a psychiatrist. One thing I've learned in my 40+ years in the game is that when somebody tells you "so and so is overrated...or not that good", chances are the opposite is true and you're dealing with a serious case of envy. The Chicago area has produced BOTH girls AND boys national youth champs. Hell, several ADULT AMATEUR champs as well. It also has produced COUNTLESS pros, both here and abroad. And the Chicago teams are always a player when it comes to national contention. Not denigrating Atlanta or Charlotte, but I highly doubt you can say the same about them...and I'm absolutely certain you can't say that about places like Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, etc....... I've also given you a metro area, St. Louis, that not only is smaller than Atlanta, but also has much greater overall quality. I would also venture to say that both Ohio (especially North) and Michigan produce better teams and players than what I've seen from Atlanta or Charlotte. Just an opinion, but one based on firsthand observation without any bias.
I wasn't referencing clubs, but rather high school teams, which is what the thread is about. Heck, I just saw a very good team from Louisville, Kentucky in the Midwest Regional League...and come to find out they have players from SEVERAL states...players that wouldn't be playing their high school ball in Kentucky. So, what you see at the club level isn't always indicative of the hs scene.
Sigh.. instead of looking at how teams perform on the field we are stuck with 'your 40 years of experience'... I am referencing last years AYSO standings. Also, I have never made a case for Iowa, Kansas, or Nebraska. I called you out on Georgia, I think your ego is preventing you from saying you painted it with too wide a brush. Lets recap (http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/news/story.asp?story_id=5828): - You said Georgia soccer clubs could not compete in Chicago. I showed you that national rankings would indicate otherwise. - I threw North Carolina as bait, you do understand CASL was ranked ranked #2 in the nation right? My opinion is that you do not know much about soccer in North Carolina or Georgia. You know how good soccer is in Chicago and I would concede I do not know how good soccer was in Chicago last year. I am giving you national youth rankings. If you know of another way to judge soccer in your area last year let me know.
I understand this is about HS. My point is if we do not use the AYSO rankings please tell me how to determine where soccer is being played at a high level last year that is not biased on your opinion or biased on my opinion. Actually you are right, that is a great point about Louisville. The Concord Fire team in Atlanta is actually all former Chicago transplants. You see there was no one talented in ATL that could play soccer but we bring them in from across the country...
Well, you CAN'T look at how they perform on the field because they don't play against each other. Simple. On the high school end, Georgia schools play...other Georgia schools, while the likes of Morton, Lyons Township and Nequa Valley routinely play against numerous schools at or near their level, even in conference play. And IF they somehow manage to survive murderous supersectionals to get to a final four, chances are they'll then have to contend with at least one talent laden St. Louis area school as well as basically all star Catholic school squads from Rockford (Boylan) and Peoria (nationally ranked Notre Dame). That's why these national HS rankings are sometimes a crock of crap. Morton, Nequa and Lyons are all better than Rockford or Peoria, yet Rockford and Peoria get national recognition/ranking because they came away with state titles. Morton, Nequa and Lyons get squat. Instead, some school from God knows where amasses an unblemished record against the Little Ladies of the Poor and thus pops up in national rankings. Put Lyons Township, just as one example, in one of these states and see what happens. And I already told you the Georgia teams I've seen are better than those from Kansas, Iowa or Nebraska. No, I don't think I said that...in fact, I KNOW I didn't say that. I was referencing high schools. And my point was top to bottom, the rule, not the exception. Top to bottom, Georgia high school soccer can't compete with the "heavyweights". You gave me ONE Georgia club, that's ranked BEHIND the Fire. The other Chicago area clubs "ranked" behind the Georgia side have won national titles. Which leads me to question how valid these rankings really are, especially when Carmel United is ranked ahead of the Magic, Sockers, Scott Gallagher and Eclipse (and I've reffed them all so I'm very familiar with all). North Carolina is still North Carolina, irrespective of how well one club or team does. That's the point. Rankings are useful when teams play common opponents and/or each other. Doesn't happen at all (or very rarely) in high school, and only if teams advance past state and regionals in club ball (excluding tourneys). Club teams in Georgia, for example, will only play club teams from California, NY/NJ or Illinois at national finals since they're from different regions. That's why NATIONAL rankings, particularly in high school ball, are highly speculative and skewed. Teams from stronger regions are always at a disadvantage. Nonetheless, look at which teams win national titles, which teams are continuous forces in their regions, and which teams produce the most college and pro players.
West coast teams tend to be pretty good. Loyola in Los Angeles and a lot of Orange County schools have produced some good talent. There is a difference between a gem of a player and a good team or program. Either way, technical development and intelligent physical development are keys to the great programs. Talent comes and goes.
The funny thing about Monteverde that nobody outside of Florida realizes is that they are not allowed to play in the FHSAA post season playoffs. So they only play a make shift season against High Schools across the state and then a couple of High School Tournaments. They are a private boarding school and 90-95% of their players are from outside the US (Brazil, Europe, other South American countries). However, they are a very good team. They do play the top High Schools around FL and beat them very convincingly. They would probably get more recongnition if they played as a club team though.
St. Benedict's in NJ is similar - perhaps not such a high percentage of internationals, but they recruit internationally for their soccer team. And their local clubs (Ironbound, Den of Lions) are no slouches either. Both clubs start training and leagues as young as 3 years old. Per Wikipedia: "<St. Benedict's was> recognized as national champion in 1990, 1997–98, 2001, 2005–06 and 2011". If it weren't for the religious bent to the school, I'd have my kid there in a minute. His public HS varsity coach wouldn't know soccer if it bit him in the butt, despite saying that he played DII soccer in college.
Lancaster Mennonite has a pretty good handle on things in Pennsylvania, State Champion and State Runner-Up, back to back in years where they weren't supposed to be good.
Prep schools are going the way of Basketball for soccer, in New England, (which has the largest number of private boarding schools so close together), have been bringing a lot of foreign kids in the last couple of years. A bunch of kids out of the Right to Dream Academy in Ghana, Grassroots Football in Zimbabwe, and MTN Football scholars in Nigeria, 2SV sports in Brazil and Chile, as well as a decent amount of Caribbean YNT kids have really made the teams up there very competitive. I would say in terms of a league top to bottom it is up there (now that most academy players don't play high school ball) as the best league in the country
Trying to rate HS teams is a waste of time. One of the highest rated HS public school teams In NYC is Martin Luther king. The coach is nothing he only coaches HS and nothing else. His team gets a lot of press in the NY times. The team is made up of immigrant players. Half of them do not live in their zone. He gets them from other places outside if the schools zone. He changes their address so they can go to his HS. One of the most unethical coaches ever. He got a deal with adidas that gives the HS money and money that goes to him. Many years ago he tried to put his HS team in our youth travel league. Under the Roosevelt island banner none of those kids lived in Roosevelt island. No doubt if under 19 kids who lived in Roosevelt island wanted to tryout for his team he would have said no to them. How did they do finish in 8th place in a 12 team division. So rating is misleading it is like art. Good is in the eyes of the beholder.
High School soccer is more about tradition. I have lived in the west and the east, school sports are more important on the east. A top high school program from california would crush anybody in the country, the top players in california wont even bother with high school sports, some of my friends that used to play for the Galaxy and Chivas USA academies only played high school for fun but never took it serious.
I agree that California is the most soccer talent rich region in the nation by far, but ultimately no public or private school can with a residential school that can pull players from around the world, with ample financial aid, that essentially equates to being given a full ride its pretty difficult
CIF {California Interscholastic Federation} El Rancho High School 3 San Clemente High School 0 Cristian Roldan, El Rancho, jugador del año {United States High School Player of the Year}{2012-2013 Gatorade National Boys Soccer Player Of The Year} El joven jugador de la preparatoria del Rancho HS fue nominado "Jugador del año en toda la nacion" y visitó Tu Show de Fútbol para conversar de los honores.http://www.twcdeportes.com/videos/2013/5/22/cristian-roldan-jugador-ano Cristian Roldan will attend the University of Washingtonhttp://www.twcdeportes.com/videos/2013/5/23/cristian-roldan-mejor-jugador-de-futbol-us http://www.erusd.k12.ca.us/elrancho/news1213/bSoccer_State_3-9b/default.htm Note: Both High Schools, El Rancho (Pico Rivera, Los Angeles County) & San Clemente (Orange County) are Public Schools.
Gatorade National Boys Soccer Player Of The Year Cristian Roldan'sNotable Stats for the 2012-2013 season: 54 Goals31 Assists (Press Release)
Dalton HS https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dalton-Catamount-Soccer/189176997767481 http://www.playonsports.com/events/58982
Indiana always has good squads. No team takes the cake every year though, as Indiana is very good, but has a lot of parity. And trust me, Indiana knows it's soccer. Notables: Evansville Memorial, Zionsville, Carmel, Warsaw, Columbus North.
Slightly OT: Anyone know how the HS season runs in AZ? Is it in the fall or winter? Do both boys and girls play in the same time of year or are they separated? TIA.
On who has the best HS teams? Which ever HS team gets the most club travel players who plays in there best div., and has a coach who coaches club travel players in their best division. Those would be the best HS teams Or the coach who cheats and bring in foreign players in from outside their districts and gives them addresses like they lived inside their districts. Like the coach of Martin Luther KING HS here in Manhattan