I saw this nice attempt at a top 25 Playmakers list, which I thought about posting in the Interesting Links thread, but then I thought it might make a good discussion topic on it's own.... I haven't read it in detail yet, but there is a good introduction and explanation and I can see the ideas behind each inclusion in the list which I skimmed through but will post here too (partly as the page might be slow to load or need refreshing it seems at times) - I haven't thought about what my own top 25 or top 1 would be at this stage so we can all think through that together as we discuss things and think in depth about what isn't a straightforward topic I think: http://www.thesportster.com/soccer/top-25-greatest-playmakers-ever/ 1 - Diego Maradona 2 - Johan Cruyff 3 - Alfredo Di Stefano 4 - Lionel Messi 5 - Michael Laudrup 6 - Zinedine Zidane 7 - Luis Suarez Miramontes 8 - Michel Platini 9 - Didi 10 - Jose Manuel Moreno 11 - Zico 12 - Andrea Pirlo 13 - Enzo Francescoli 14 - Gianni Rivera 15 - Xavi 16 - Rivelino 17 - Juan Schiaffino 18 - Socrates 19 - Ronaldinho 20 - Paul Scholes 21 - Francesco Totti 22 - Roberto Baggio 23 - Franz Beckenbauer 24 - Dennis Bergkamp 25 - Gheorghe Hagi There are quite a few questions we'd need to ask ourselves individually or collectively probably to determine what we are looking at firstly. The author clarifies 'Playmaker' as a role rather than position which I think is correct. But apart from whether we look at long-term greatness or peak performance/ability (or both but to what extent each?) there is also the question of whether we just think about who will qualify as a playmaker or great playmaker and rank them as we would in a greatest/best players list overall, or whether we judge who is the best/greatest at playmaking itself having determined everything that goes into that. I think the author might have done that latter, but not sure. I had a go previously at best passers and best creators (second might be close to best playmakers but not necessarily the same I guess) but this seems a hard call but interesting to think about and discuss. From what I read and also to the extent I was able to see then Juan Schiaffino seems to fit the description well. Does Jose Manuel Moreno definitely too, irrespective of how good/great he is deemed or estimated to have been? Pele is not considered a playmaker or a good enough playmaker by the author it seems, while various other GOAT candidates are, and Roberto Baggio is too - is that correct? I do think it's a nice piece anyway, but need to read the descriptions more completely to appreciate it fully - but thought I'd kick off this thread in the meantime.