Best 11 Right Now

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by LuckofLichaj, Oct 19, 2018.

  1. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I was watching the game. Cannon took a knock and was down for quite a bit after a long run where he carried the ball almost to the top of the 18 before being fouled. I'd bet that was more the issue than conditioning.
     
  2. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    I actually have no issue with Ream the CB. Were he on the roster in the Omar Gonzalez spot, I would have been totally fine with him as a veteran leader and good passer from that position. Ream is a logical alternative to Brooks. The issue is we forced a guy whose skillset isn't even particularly well-suited to it (a la Besler), to play out of position and all we heard was the famous "if not Ream, then who?" line from the soccer media. Ream is a professional and didn't get totally roasted but it's telling that both Jamaica and Mexico adjusted to pick on him and both of their goals came from that side of the field. I'm not going to say Ream was at fault for the Mexico goal but a good LB may well have shut that down when Ream was backing up afraid to get beat for speed.

    And all that would be fine if we had the player pool of Curacao and it was Ream and a bunch of young/lower division players but it's not. Lichaj spent the last portion of the season playing LB for Hull and performed very well there. He's also shown he can do it in a US shirt and is a year younger than Ream. Matt Besler has also played left back for the USMNT in the past and has the same center back skillset that maybe we're looking for. Both Besler and Lichaj have quite a bit more pace than Ream which did actually matter when Jamaica put Leon Bailey on that side. Then we have our young guys (Robinson, Dest, Gloster) plus Garza who was actually called into camp but withdrew due to injury that are more offensively gifted but generally less adept defensively though I think Gloster will be very good defensively in time.

    I'm not buying Ream as the solution and penciled in starter at LB. He will get exposed. Lovitz should never wear the shirt again. Lichaj and Robinson both have good club situations and should have no problem coming over to play the next few sets of games. Lichaj/Robinson is a better and younger version of Ream/Lovitz. You have the same tactical flexibility with more talent.
     
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  3. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Why would anyone discuss anything with you when you are simply going to make up shit and claim I said it?
     
  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I guess it’s a LIE that Berhalter has relied upon Trapp and Bradley as a regista in every single game.
     
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  5. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Being a grind does not make a league good. I've been to tons of Championship games with my cousin (who is English), who has represented a ton of players from the Championship down to League 2, and I will tell you that even he does not believe the Championship to be better than MLS (and yes, he has tried unsuccessfully to bring some of his players to MLS in the past). It IS a grind. It IS tough and long slog of a season there. But the players and teams aren't better than MLS players on the whole. Quality and toughness/difficulty are not equivalents. I agree with @DHC1 that a guy like Holmes should not be slotted in automatically and necessarily above MLS because of the league he plays in. That to me is madness. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
     
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  6. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Holmes looked a step above when subbed in for the US.
     
  7. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Won’t disagree but they were two friendly games.

    I’m very interested but not sure if he’s a real step up from our MLS options.
     
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  8. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If that is your take, that's fine. As long as someone is talking about actual play on the field, we are on the right track … whether or not I agree on the particular player. I thought he was pretty decent in his very limited minutes too. No way I would personally put him in the best 11 on that sample though.
     
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  9. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who are the other central attacking options that have looked even in the same league as Holmes did in his 2 USMNT appearances?
     
  10. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Holmes and Lletget offer more than Roldan and Mihailovic. I think Pomykal will offer more than all four. If that's the case, we'll start having those good kind of problems.
     
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  11. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I was thinking Lletget whom I don’t think is athletic enough but I expect to see a lot more of him.

    edit: add Pomykal
     
  12. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You do realize nothing about what I said was he should start over anyone else because the league he plays in is a grid and he should be an auto start right? You skipped over literally everything else I talked about.
     
  13. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With all due respect, I didn't skip over anything, because what I quoted was the first thing you said in answer to the question of "what with all the Holmes love?" Yes, you went on to make some points afterwards, but when the very first thing put to words is that the Championship is better than MLS (in your opinion), that is indicative of your mindset. People tend to make their strongest argument first. And your first argument was based on league comparison, not performance. Just noting that. Not trying to be a dick.
     
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  14. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You’re literally admitting to skipping over stuff and only focusing on one thing while ignoring the rest.

    My mindset is the entire point I make.

    It’s everything I stated. I think what he does in the Championship plays a part, what he did in his cameo’s plays a part, his skillset and tactical flexibility plays a part. I also said several things about Pomykal and how I’d call both up. Neither are best 11 but if 1 of the 2 had to start I’d go with Holmes over Pomykal because of the reasons I listed. As well as I hope they both get a run out to see what they can do.

    But yes focus on literally 1 thing and not the entire argument. Youre literally politicking right now... not trying to be a dick either but everything you just said is mad annoying. Process the entire argument. Or at the very least own up to wanting to focus on 1 element but don’t ignore the entire argument and put words in my mouth about it solely being about league standing and an auto lock.
     
  15. Ace08

    Ace08 Member

    May 30, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Of course I'm aware of it. Which AGAIN speaks to GB , the roster "constructor", ineptness.

    I have equally high criticism for Ream the left back and GB the head coach. I think both are equally inept at their respective disciplines.
     
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  16. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Part of this is fundamental disagreement and another part is a misreading/mistatement of what I am saying. I never accused you of making Holmes an autostarter because of his league. When I mentioned an autostarter, I thought I had made it clear that it was in agreement with DHC … not an indictment of a specific argument that you made. Having gone back to what I wrote, I see that when I was trying to be diplomatic about the larger point by writing "But you are entitled to your opinion," it does read as if I am talking about the autostarter point. It was not meant that way. That was meant to address the larger argument about Championship vs MLS. So for that confusion I have to raise my hand for blame.

    On the other hand, I didn't ignore your entire argument. I focused on your first argument because as I said, people start where they start for a reason. I started with a "my bad" because the most important thing to me is to acknowledge my blame in this confusion, since I caused it. You started where you did for a reason as well. That being said, I will leave my own best XI to now get shredded to pieces.

    -------------------------------Altidore -----------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------- Weah -----------------------------
    -----------------------------------Pulisic-----------------------------------------------
    ----------Boyd-------------------------------------------------Cannon-------------
    ----------------------Adams ---------------McKennie------------------------
    ------------Brooks -------------Miazga --------------- Long-----------------
    -------------------------------------Steffen------------------------------------------

    There are some holes here, I know. But with no left back that I trust, I go to a 3 back lineup. I trust Cannon to patrol up and down the right side. We have a problem. The biggest issue for me is Weah/Pulisic/Boyd. I don't like Pulisic in the CAM spot, but until someone steps up (and someone will eventually) I put him there. 2nd striker is still an issue then. And I have to take someone who has some decent speed and won't constantly run into Altidore. So even with little experience, I am forced to put Weah there. And Boyd … well his defense leaves something to be desired. But out there with Adams behind him, I feel confident he can get forward and do what he does.

    All that being said, I hope that this lineup changes fairly drastically within 12 months.
     
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  17. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m a little agitated for other reasons and I’m sure some of that leaked out in my response as well. Let’s just agree to disagree fundamentally on that and leave it there. We can get back to best 11.
     
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  18. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My best 11...

    ———————-Sargent——————
    LW——————Pulisic—————Boyd
    ————Adams———Wes————-
    LB———-Brooks——-Long——Yedlin
    ————————GK———————

    A couple notes on my 11.

    ST:
    Jozy is better than Sargent in this moment in time but I don’t think Jozy can go 90 against a Mexico or higher level side. If you can’t go 90 at that level then you shouldn’t start. Would be the first attack sub. Sargent could potentially over take Jozy this coming year tho.

    LW:
    Weah vs Arriola is an interesting one. Against a top side where we’re going to defend much much more I’d consider Arriola as a starter and Weah an attacking sub but going forward I want to be more attackminded and would gamble on Weah for the time being.

    LB:
    Its dire... need I say more. I’d try about a bunch of players here.

    If it’s 3Gs system... CCV. Maybe move Long there and insert a different RCB. If it’s a traditional 4-2-3-1 I’d try out AR. Maybe see how Fabian looks as a vet. Would also like to see Cannon and Dest get a chance there.

    RB:
    Would also give Cannon and Dest some burn at RB but Yedlin is still top there for now. He lacks the skill id want of outside back but his athleticism covers up for a lot for now and in the heat on the road that may mean more.

    GK:
    Steffen is in the lead but I wouldnt have him as a lock. Horvath should be given a chance with the first team and see how he looks. Having Omar in front of anyone when we’re playing against a press will be rough.
     
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  19. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    I agree with this, hoping that Weah has a good season with Lille to make him the obvious choice at LW.
     
  20. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Weah is going to be given every chance to get PT. He wasn’t brought in to replace Pepe tho. Lille already has young talented wingers to step up. But Weah will fill their void in the pipeline. Between Ligue 1, UCL and their domestic cup there will be plenty of minutes to go around. If he can snag 1500 to 2000 minutes between those and contribute a handful of goals and assists that would be a great step for him at 19.
     
  21. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i thought holmes looked a lot HUNGRIER. (end direct reply to quote)

    its generally thought of as an mls-bias, but i think what berhalter has shown is a lack of courage/ability in moving past familiarity overall. starting with trapp and zardes as security blankets wasnt outstanding in any way- almost any manager would do that.

    but the gold cup roster, five months later, being the majority of that first jan camp (plus players who werent eligible) is really troubling.

    ive posted before about competition and the general malaise thats been a problem for us for a decade- thats the lens i see holmes and his impact through. first off cause i just dont have enough to go on yet- i cant evaluate too much in 50 total minutes. but also, coming on for mahailovic vs jamaica- how is holmes (or almost anyone, really) NOT going to look like a huge upgrade?

    i dont mean to just dump on djordje but has he missed any match berhalter has managed? followup question- has he deserved those repeated looks? jan camp is one thing- and of course there were injuries- but is that really a guy who has (based on his play) been on a big upswing, from jan camp to the gold cup?

    holmes may well be in our second tier (potential starter/regular sub)- time will tell- but i think its less quality that was outstanding about him than fight and effort and, again, just hunger.

    we talk plenty about bradley having a nailed-on spot, no other cdms need apply, but that goes on down to a zardes, to a mihailovich...

    i mean- how much can daniel freaking lovitz possibly be sweating his place in this team? thats a problem.

    and before anyone says "yeah, but left backs..."- what about amon/lewis? why was holmes the one coming off the bench between him and djordje? how is it even possible to be this set in your ways in 6 months?
     
  22. FeedhimtothepigsArold

    Apr 7, 2014
    Club:
    Oxford United FC
    Well..... I lived in England for 20 years. I know players that have played in most tiers in England. Ive watched the Championship numerous times. Went to school with a few Championship players. I also frequent many MLS games. My peers seem to disagree with you and your cousins assessment of the leagues. If MLS was a better league for career trajectory then Im sure he would have no problem getting Championship players to come over. Of course, each individuals situation is different.

    The general consensus ( my peers) seems to be that the top 6-8 teams in Championship could do what LAFC are doing now in MLS. Im not sure if the top 6-8 teams in MLS (outside of LAFC) could reach the playoff spots in the Championship. All subjective, of course.

    I agree that Holmes should not be an auto starter. After a season in a promotion battle in a league which, at the very least, is as good as MLS......he deserves an extended look. I trust Lampards evaluation of talent in that regard.

    I think we need to see all the options to determine a best 11.
     
  23. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I trust a person who actually evaluates, represents and helps place players at that level for a living, over your peers. But again, you are entitled to your opinion.
     
  24. FeedhimtothepigsArold

    Apr 7, 2014
    Club:
    Oxford United FC
    Your assuming none of my peers do what you mention is weird. Being that I never stated what any of my peers do.
     
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  25. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #975 onefineesq, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
    What would be weird is you knowing people in that business and you not mentioning it as a point of rebuttal, as it would be your strongest argument. Again, for me, I will trust someone who works with players CURRENTLY in England and actually follows MLS because he also CURRENTLY tries to place players HERE. Not 15 years ago, not 10 years ago, but now.
     

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