1 we'll never know...unless it is actually tried. 2. i think it would be better defensively than you think 3. the best offense is a good defense and this lineup might make teams think twice about pinning their ears back 4 its hard for me to imagine this lineup not scoring more than lineups that have been put out this year....and if you can score that means the other MUST score...which is hard to do. 5. its easier to counter attack when teams are in your zone...so an offensively capable lineup on the counter could be deadly
Here's the performance of YA this week. I don't see it. I really don't. https://sbisoccer.com/2018/10/americans-abroad-weekend-rewind-wooten-gooch-and-more
In a 3G-style system: right-now-- ---------------------Sargent---------------- --------Pulisic----Nguyen----Nagbe---- --------------Weston---Cameron---- --Adams-------------------------------Yedlin---- ---------------Miazga------CCV------ --------------------Guzan---- Pulsic would play up high. Nagbe would provide balance via strong two-way play. McKennie would be the 8. Cameron would be the 6. Yedlin would push high into the attack. Adams would play more conservatively. Brooks would be a poor fit for this system, as 3G likes to split the CBs wide.
The funny thing is that for all of the talk of big changes,we can probably guess about 7 or 8 of our 2022 starters: Front 6 of Pulisic, Weah, Sargent, Wes, Adams, plus 1. Back 4 of Miazga, Brooks, Yedlin, plus 1. GK is Steffen.
Which ones will be injured or faded out or out of form? My guess would be Wes out of form due to so-so rehab from mcl tear. Pulisic on the bench somewhere with a bloated contract that has him glued in place. Adams playing fullback somewhere at club because he is getting paid. Miazga is already on the bench at Nantes, bt.w. Brooks having mobility problems. Yedlin aged out, lost a half a step, bad skills and poor focus statirng to show more and more. So who do you have as back up? p.s. edit: Remember when we had Fabian Johnson and Chandler as default fb's for Russia cycle. So why were F/fana and Zusi playing? What happened to the 'automatic beast" Terrence Boyd? Mix? Johanssen? Brooks?
seems like it, for sure, but doubt it goes down like that..... 4 years is an eternity in international soccer
--------------Ronaldo --------Messi ----------------- --- Hazard --------- KDB -------- Mbappe -------- --------------------- Busquets ------------------------ -Marcelo ----- Chiellini -- Bonucci - Walker ---- ------------------------ DeGea -------------------------
I hope you aren’t serious. How many of these players would you have guessed 4 years ago would be in the 2018 starting lineup (or thereabouts)? I very much disagree with your lineup. I’d have 4-5 of those players starting right now, which illustrates its more subjective than you make it seem, but I’ll go along for the sake of discussion. I’ll answer that for you. Maybe 2-3 of these players, but possibly none. Pulisic was one of the better players on the U-17 NT, so you might’ve been able to predict him onto this team, although it would certainly be a long shot, just because of his age. Maybe even Adams, although he was more of a back up on that same team (but playing up a year). No one knew about Sargent or Weah. McKennie was a fringe roster guy in that U-17 team. Brooks and Yedlin were more entrenched, but what about the roles they play now? Brooks often looks mediocre for the NT and played very few important games for us during the 2018 cycle. Yedlin also has often looked mediocre for the NT, and has the position right now because of his club resume. Miazga was mostly an unknown, Steffen as the starting keeper four years on was an educated punt. He probably wasn’t even as highly rated as Horvath just one year ago. It’s a complete unknown. Maybe 3-4 of those players are starters four years from now or maybe none. We really don’t know.
I agree there is time for change by 2022. But it's hard to imagine any more of the late 20s players taking those spots. Then it's also hard to imagine an entire group of even younger players beating out too many of the current set of young players that I named.
I don't blame you for not wanting to guess which 28 year old has a career year, and finds their way into the lineup. I wouldn't want to do that either, but I think we all know that a player or two like that will be a starter. It happens in almost every NT. Also, I don't know why younger players wouldn't be able to beat out those players, unless you believe those players you named are such outliers compared to their peers that its near impossible that those might not be the best four years from now or any younger players that are coming after that. I think USSF has really put on the marketing campaign here to fool fans. That "Next" series was a joke, and the type of thing you wouldn't see from any half-professional organization.
I agree there's room for the late bloomer as well as the newcomer from out of nowhere. Definitely. That's why I said 7-8 instead of 9-10.
Well, those players are sort of outliers. There just are not that many players getting minutes at their ages. At least as far as I can tell. We might have 4 of 6 young MF/FW players at CL level teams in the big leagues. Those guys will be 22 or 23 in 2022. It would be a lot to expect 4-6 whole new younger players to have the same level of established careers.
I'd rather see Kante at Busquets spot, and I think Hakimi is performing better at the left back spot than Marcelo, but that's splitting some micro-hairs there. DeGea's save against Cristiano last week was nothing short of legendary.
I agree with USS97531's main point. If you look at the lineups for our last two Hex qualifiers (which IMO are better comps than our current experimental lineup), I doubt that we'd have guessed even half of them. I don't like these types of analysis. Have some of our better players looked mediocre for the USMNT - of course, but that doesn't mean that they're not materially better than our other options. All of our players (except CP perhaps) are inconsistent for the USMNT and that's what makes picking a good coach vitally important. I'd note that we seem to have a problem maximizing the upside and consistency of starting quality B1 players for the USMNT (WM, Brooks, Williams, Chandler, Morales, FJ, etc.) and I hope it doesn't happen to CP. Unclear if its tactics, lineup or motivation but we're not getting the upside and consistency that we should from our best players.
For the US however, Striker: Sargeant (he just has "it", he will be the leading scorer for the US when all is said and done) AM: Pulisic CM: McKennie and Adams GK: Steffen Fill in the rest with whomever is playing well at the moment. We have absolutely no class at any of the other positions. We just have form.
Healthy everyone? ----------------Steffen----------- Cannon--Miazga--Brooks--Fabian ----------------Williams--------- -------McKennie----Adams------ Weah------- Wood------Pulisic Tad worried about the right side. Wanted Adams & Pulisic on the same side to Pulisic could drift inside more. But Weah may not have the defensive chops. Cannon could stay home more. Maybe flip Weah & Pulisic.
Fair enough, I agree. Nonetheless, the only strong teams we'll probably play in competition next year are Mexico and Costa Rica, and I don't think the Ticos are going to be as good as they were last cycle. The team that's best to win at home in CONCACAF (which is what that team looks like) is very different than the team that's best to win in a CONCACAF slugfest, which is very different from the team that's best (or will be best by then) to win abroad in Europe or Asia, which we won't have to do in competition until the 2021 Confed Cup at least. This group has the advantage of pace and overall talent through most of the pitch, a bit more ability in front of goal than we usually trot out, and, most especially, a lot of youth in the side, which bodes well for the future, even if we don't line 'em up like this. FWIW I think we might see Reggie Cannon at right back more in 2019, and we could use Adams at right back or CM.
I look at this type of lineup as one that makes us more vulnerable to a TNT-type upset in the Hex as well. These teams will be playing a counter-attack game and our outside mids are quite weak defensively. It puts a lot of pressure on Mckennie who will be required to be a shield for the entire back line and would be required to win a lot of balls because positional defense relies on having dependable outside midfielders. Furthermore, both of our outside backs are playing positions that they don’t play for the team at this point and would be vulnerable if they moved into the attack (which is what I believe Adam Tash was hoping for). When we play these teams, we should try to emulate how Germany played us in Brazil -nothing fancy but a strong reliance on dependable defense and let superior talent slowly take advantage of a weaker team. There’s a higher chance of a unlucky and disappointing tie but little chance of losing. We would have made Russia if we played this way in TNT.
playing for ties in easily winnable games is what put the USMNT in a position to be sunk by an "unlucky" result in the first place. I think 3 points for a win and 1 for a tie means go for the win every time in a 10 game series. Yeah, if on the 10th game all you need is a draw, sure, do what guarantees the draw....but it never should have gotten to that point in the first place...and wouldnt if 1 or 2 of those draws were wins. Bruce's draw on the road, win at hime formula backfired big time. it shrunk the margin for error when it was supposed to mitigate risk. Not sure what you think I want - vulnerable wings?? - I want a team that can attack and create chances....and can also defend well together as a team. I dont think that is too much to ask but it seems most do - most of these lineups have no chance of creating much on offense, imo....and bely a belief that a competent attack is a pipedream. in my opinion a team that is actually good at attacking will cause opponents to lineup more defensively than they otherwise would - playing into the hands of the team - and i also think that lineups with more offensive firepower are not as necessarily deficient in defense as most think - i think most usmnters are pretty good at tracking back and helping out on d even if they are "attackers".....and the us doesnt need 3 dmids against anyone, let alone concacaf.
Here is how they are doing in Europe, BriSchiar reports: http://www.americansoccernow.com/ar...ean-season-is-full-of-struggles-for-americans
Not much to say if you think Weah and CP together are good outside midfield defenders. As far as having 3 DMs, quite frankly, who in our pool is truly a DM? Certainly not Adams or WM whose skill set is more B2B than destroyer. So saying 3 DMs is silly. Finally, if you think having Nyugen as our 10 would make any good team line up more defensively, I’d say that you must be pretty excited about Canada’s new dope laws. Other than CP, none of our attackers would make the Mexican bench as attackers and absolutely nobody fears them or plays more defensively because of how we line them up. The thought that this group would cause a team to stop “pinning its ears back” is silly - they wouldn’t have to play a highly offensive lineup to take advantage of CP/weah as outside minds and Adams/FJ as outside backs. They’ll dominate our end because we don’t have enough ball winners.
i think CP is good defensively and that has kept him on the field for BVB. Not sure on Weah but i think he has the speed and attitude to play good d and both players could be used in a high press system. trapp canouse bradley (lol) williams etc are all dms...i just saw a lineup in this thread that had danny williams, adams and mckennie as the central mids...sorru, but to me, adams and mckennie offer more defensively than they do offensively....playing all three together is very defensive, imo. i would say all of them are closer to dmid than amid, without question....and that none offer enough in the center of the field in terms of creativity and allowing the team to consistently create a decent amount of chances....wes and tyler are still young and might develop that side of their games but at the moment they are basically dmids in my book. I admit nguyen isnt gonna strike fear into many international teams...and that he isnt maybe the ideal solution...but he's the closest the usmnt has in its pool and he hasnt really ever been given a shot with the a team to be that player....he's never played with pulisic weah wood and altidore to feed balls to...not even once.....if its not him, its gotta be someone who plays that position....ATTACKING MID for their actual club....IDK care who it is...the options are slim....maybe hyndman maybe fielhaber IDK...but a trianlge of adams and mckennie in front of a destroyer dmid is not going to score much. the options are SLIM...whi in the usmnt pool even plays attacking mid centrally for their club?? idk....anyone?? but its gotta be someone.....julian green and acosta dont seem to be the answers there, imo.... I disagree about what would happen without enough "ball winners"....until it is tried on the field we will just have to disagree....I think there is room to have a speed based dangerous counter attacking team with players like CP, Weah, 2 forwards and an attacking midfielder that can do damage on the break and make possession % meaningless....but we have never seen that particular experiement so ....its just your opinjon that it woujldnt work.
I can kind of see your point. If we look at the post world cup predictions in 2014, 2010 (that one really sticks in my mind), 2006 to a lesser extent and 2002, if those threads could be uncovered we'd laugh at how drastically off we were. Somebody, forget who, in the Youth section managed to unearth posts regarding the 2003 U-20 squad in the run up to the cup (remains a true heartbreaker for me, the team losing in extra time after having been literally 2-3 seconds away from victory over Argentina in the Quarterfinals the day before my birthday) and it is more than a little amusing to see the speculative comments about Dempsey (including some extraordinarily prescient takes) mixed in with more assured comments about total non-entities. It is damn hard to predict anything. Imagining that it would be Michael Bradley, rather than Freddy Adu, who would be the defining youth player on our '05/'07 U-20 World Cup squads for instance. One could go on (Junior Flores, Joseph Gyau, Michael Renken etc). But, otoh, you're also going a bit too far here, we know that the kids you seem to view as pure speculation like those others of the past did something none of those guys in the bygone era did: Sargent was a dominant Forward playing overage at the U-20 World Cup in 2017, promoted to the senior team with little time to spare and then he finished in a tie for 2nd in total goals scored at the tournament. Any wonder he was pursued by some of the biggest clubs in the world? That doesn't seem at all the same as past players. Weah was already a PSG prospect when he scored a hat trick against a Paraguay side most thought we'd lose to after the debacle against Colombia considering Paraguay had dominated its group in the group stage. After a seemingly anonymous US youth career he then jumped into some first team minutes with PSG the following spring and a handful of appearances this year. Again, nothing like prior US youth prospects. I know you've never rated him that much like some of your other preferred prospects, but reality is reality, I loved Renken, and he never became squat. Same thing with Junior Flores. Also didn't rate Wood at all, and thought it was absurd that he got called in, then he became the most productive forward not named Dempsey between 2014-2017. I thought he sucked, and was a waste of a call in, and was deeply annoyed, and I was wrong. It happens, in some cases, a lot. Guys like McKennie, Adams, Miazga, Brooks, flaws and all, they are still just about tops in the pool currently in the midfield and on defense w/regards to their position of late. All of them have flaws, all of them have been very up and down, and anything can happen, but for now, they would all be the best bets if you were making conservative ones, for the '22 squad. Yedlin I'm a bit more circumspect on. Sure he's got that EPL pedigree, but I think just about everyone is deeply alarmed at what has become a Timmy Chandler like lack of quality for appearance after appearance regardless of his form in England. He just has played like a guy who thinks the job is his, and he doesn't have to do anything to keep it and as a result has been pretty ---- lately. Anyway, in my view, I can completely agree with the idea that suggesting we know exactly where we stand with a good chunk of the '22 squad barring injury. That is kinda silly, considering the youth of the squad, and fickleness of health. That being said, most of the players mentioned are either the best, or damn close to the best options positionally right now, with nearly all of them having higher ceilings they could possibly reach in the years to come. To my mind, I'd agree w/most of his sentiment but not quite his certainty, plus I'd add that I think there's a ton of kids in that 16-21 area that could push their way into consideration very easily over the next three years, especially with more and more players likely looking at situations like that with Carleton and eschewing MLS for European options instead. It's a long road for all of them, but a possibly very lucrative road if they put the work in, stay healthy and approach it all with the right mentality. When I consider the players that have already pushed their way in, and the fact that there are some very interesting young players that aren't even being mentioned right now, I do think there's a ton of room for change, it just depends on health, opportunity and putting in the physical and mental work. I haven't been this excited for the team since probably 2007 and 2002. Hopefully the kids will be much healthier then the kids of those two past generations.
ATash, You keep focusing on offense and say that we can't score but I don't see where this comes from. Here's our Hex results: 2017: 17 GF 13 GA 2013: 15GF 8 GA 2009: 19 GF 13 GA 2005: 16 GF 6 GA 2001: 11 GF 8 GA Our offense has been consistent and, in fact this cycle was our second highest of the past 16 years to disastrous results. Conversely, our defense gave up the highest amount of goals to disastrous results. To put a finer point on it: we can and have scored and that got us eliminated in the Hex as we end up giving up too many goals. The identity that has led to any USMNT success has been that of a stout defensive team and given that we don't have many difference makers on the offensive side of the ball, trading defensive players (where we at least have some major leaguers who play that position) for minor league offensive players is nuts IMO.
BTW, CP plays as a winger for Dortmund not one of the outside midfielders. He may be asked to press but that's not what you have him doing in this lineup.