Berhalter announces 23 player squad for the 2019 Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here’s the thing tho. If Tyler Adams doesn’t leave the MLS he would plateau. His touch in pressure and passing have improved. He’s still got to improve but his game is continuing to develop. Secondly name someone else? How many players are going from MLS to playing a huge role for their European team?

    The MLS is improving but they need to get over this complex of needing to be a top league in the world and focus on being a top developmental league and selling their best and brightest. Do that and we’re in good shape.
     
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  2. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    It's also why we never should've hired GGG in the first place. If he wasn't ready to take over the program from the jump, we should've set aside his mediocre at best C.V., and started looking at actually accomplished national team managers, you know the guys that have taken teams to multiple world cups, or youth cups, there only was more than 2 dozen quality ones available during that window of time when we sat on our hands and did eff all in terms of handling the hire and rebuilding the program. Instead we acted like an NFL team desperate to land the next McVay, or an NBA team that sniffs out Beileins availability and snaps him right up, or the Cubs and Joe Maddon, except GGG was none of these things. He's never won a damn thing, he's never presided over elite anything, he's never exhibited peerless talent of this or that sort, hell his CV ain't 1/10 as impressive as Arena's, and the entire fan base, cynical and not cynical, would love to load Arena into a Circus Cannon and shoot him onto an obscure Pacific Island where he can disappear from all notice forever more. All I can think is that we waited more than a year for THIS?!?!?! We handed Sarachan an invaluable collection of roadies to waste for this?!?!?!

    It's just beyond inexcusable and irredeemable.
     
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  3. ipass

    ipass Member

    Jan 2, 2015
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Not like actually getting minute
    Yeah, but since then, it's not like there have been big crowds out to see them play. And if they get spanked by Venezuela, which is not only quite possible but probable, then we'll see how big the fan base is once the tournament starts.
     
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  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I’m sure this is tongue in cheek but stop blaming the players - blame the coach.

    Or in this instance, take the proverbial stick to the one making the lineup not the players who are simply trying as hard as they can to wear the shirt.
     
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  5. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Of course. That was my point, jokingly made.

    I was willing to give Greggy a chance, until I saw his lineup and roster choices running up to a competitive tournament. I am 99.9% certain that a BigSoccer poll would choose a better roster, formation, and lineup. It is that bad.
     
  6. ipass

    ipass Member

    Jan 2, 2015
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The only problem is that Berhalter was left in.
     
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  7. Cynical US fan

    United States
    Mar 30, 2017
    Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Berhalter's starting to sound/be like Trump: lies, more lies; nepotism without end. He is obviously looking out for himself, not the players. I bet we see little of Holmes or Boyd in the GC. Sargent could have made a difference in the U20 WC although the midfield truly lost us the Ecuador match. Since the GC is worthless now that the Confederations Cup won't be held anymore, I see the inclusion of Pulisic and McKennie in the GC as preparation for the qualifiers, which I don't think we'll do well in given that Berhalter is the coach.
     
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  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Adams, Miazga, Alphonso Davies went to Bayern. Pomykal will go soon. Much of the U20s in Europe right now that people are crowing about spent most of their development with MLS academies.

    The academies are just getting rolling, so it is relatively new. but it's ridiculous to say that MLS can't develop players. The development of professional academies is going to do more for US Soccer than almost anything.

    MLS is going to keep a dual focus -- about a third of the teams are all in on developing players, and I expect more to join them. Economics and player choice will dictate them selling.

    But MLS won't -- and we shouldn't want them to -- give up on improving as a league and being a top league. Even if the MLS reaches "only" the level of best league in the Americas (and economics say it is possible), that will create a better overall player pool for US Soccer.

    People are weirdly paranoid about players staying in MLS. A player with talent to play in a top European league -- it's going to be rare that they want to stay. On the flipside, actually having a place with a vested interest in developing young American talent, that's priceless. We just need the whole league to realize it instead of about a third of the teams.
     
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  9. tomásbernal

    tomásbernal Member+

    Sep 4, 2007
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I gather you don't follow the goings on in MLS, because becoming a selling league is precisely what they have decided to do in the last few years. As @gogorath said, they are both trying to develop players to sell and simultaneously improve the overall quality of the league. I'll second him in saying that the academies are finally starting to bear fruit, but we need more of that. One of the things the league is doing to improve that is to end the regional requirements for academy players - - until now, a player from the LA area could only play for the LA academies, so lots of great talents from that area were probably overlooked, but couldn't just decide to go to SKC or Dallas or anywhere else.
     
  10. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Can any youth player sign with any team now?
     
  11. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Farewell Sweet Prince
    Jan 9, 2004
    Gentrification's Apex.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    It's honestly impressive how much time and mental energy is spent by certain people following this team while simultaneously calling for a boycott...
     
  12. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Not yet. But there's enough smoke that it seems like it will happen reasonably soon.
     
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  13. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Miazga played well in Holland after being benched until he worked on his technical skills. Failed in France and has been good in the championship. Alonso Davies has played 74 minutes. Neither have jumped from the MLS to playing a large role in Europe.

    Development isn’t just up to 18. The US fails in that next phase. Yes we’re improving. Staying in the MLS after a certain point is detrimental. You can only go so far in that league. It’s not paranoid. It’s just not a good enough league. It’s not just players. It’s coaches. It’s everything.
     
  14. truefan420

    truefan420 Member+

    May 30, 2010
    oakland
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The past year or two they’ve started selling a little more but it’s not there yet. The goal should be develop and sell. Keep turning over and giving youth a chance. The league isn’t there yet.

    That’s cool but their not doing it consistently yet. I won’t give them credit till it’s due.

    That’s one of many things that needs to change to improve the league.
     
  15. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    this is a weird take on me quoting a post specifically to agree it was a really important point before moving on to talk about selection arguments in general. filled with points ive also made (agree with, orther than robinson- but thats not a huge deal).

    bs is weird, man.
     
  16. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    I don't have a problem with MLSers being on the roster. But here's the thing: We are 3 years away from 2022.

    A good portion of these 24-28 year olds aren't going to be bought by Europe and are unlikely to make that roster three years from now. They are known quantities. Is anyone happy if Wil Trapp is even on our roster in 2022? He's about to start every game of the Gold Cup. I'm not saying Wil is a bad player. I just don't think he has it for us to take the next level at the International level.

    He called in JUST ONE MLSer under 24. Historically we've used the national team to display young MLS talent to European clubs and that's resulted in moves. IE: Dempsey, Yedlin, hell even Brek Shea and Eddie Johnson.

    Europe isn't going to buy anyone based on this roster. They're too old and far too valuable for their MLS teams to sell for what would be offered. It's simple European teams buy MLSers cheap so they can then sell them based on their performance in what is or is perceived as a better league. That's just how it works.


    HELL just because I've been doing this all weekend I decided to look at that vaunted 2002 team and the breakdown Domestic VS Foreign.

    Domestic 11 total players
    U-23 Two (Beasley and Donovan)
    U-27 Three (Josh Wolfe, Mathis, and Mastreoni) Two of those three eventually moved to Europe. Wolfe got injured. Mathis got injures. Mastreoni was a good Nat IMO.
    27+ Six (McBride, Pope, Cobi Jones, Carlos Llamosa, Tony Meola, and Jeff Agoos)

    McBride actually killed it and had a nice later career abroad. Pope was good enough he just never went.

    Tell me who in MLS on the roster in each age group can hold a candle to that group?

    Jonathon Lewis is as good as Beasley or Donovan?
    Wil Trapp or Mastreoni?
    Hell Jozy or Zardes or Brian McBride?
    Walker Zimmerman or Eddie Pope?

    Yeah the bulk of our talent (and defense) was in Europe.

    Sannah, Hejduk, and Cherundolo were in Germany.
    Berhalter was in England.

    Our MF?
    Jon O'Brian, Earnie Stewart in Holland. Reyna in England.

    Obviously Friedel and Keller.


    Is this where we wanted the national team to be 17 years later? Sure MLS is better, but the players we're calling up for the GOLD CUP aren't better than the MLSers that we had back then. And they won't be as a group any better in three years.

    Our best players have and always will by and large be based in Europe. GGG not calling them in and instead calling in a generation that couldn't qualify for the Olympics 2X and failed to qualify for one of the U-20 World Cups is frustrating beyond belief.

    If we're one year away from the World Cup? Ok I get it, use this as a trial ground to see if we're missing anyone that can be valuable. But not calling in any of the younger talent in the MLS, as well as building a core group that isn't based in Europe is honestly malpractice.
     
  17. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Sorry if I misunderstood -- after the agreement it seemed you were addressing me personally. If you were not, that makes more sense.
     
  18. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    As hard as it is to watch MLS
    For enjoyment, it does seem that the youth development system is starting to turn dividends.

    Eventually the kids coming into MLS will push their way into teams and displace the paid for talent somewhat.

    Sure is a lot better than it was 10 years ago!
     
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  19. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    This would be huge for youth development. Crossing my fingers although I must admit I’m surprised.
     
  20. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It’s similar to the B2 or Championship. There are a small subset of people who can step up to a higher level of play and there’s no perfect formula for identifying who can do it, just like in college basketball and minor league baseball and hockey.
     

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