Berhalter announces 23 player squad for the 2019 Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by schrutebuck, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I try to stick to that which is measurable.

    That people have personal prejudices about their league preference is too subjective to enter those calculations.

    I'm just giving numbers, let your subjectivity complement them.
     
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  2. neems

    neems Member+

    Liverpool FC
    United States
    Apr 14, 2009
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, again the problem with so called "objective" in any bizarre data analysis. We could add Neymar in there for the same "data" analysis.

    Thanks for grinding those figures out, but don't make accurate subjective assessment seem like a personal opinion... They are completely different.
     
  3. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    Holden was stating Bradley is a starter during the gold cup along with Pulisic, Adams, Mckennie, etc.

    LOL.


    This shit will never end. Thank You Jimmy Conrad for having the guts.
     
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  4. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Personally, and this is my subjective take: I'd have called Jozy & Morales, not called Chandler, Johnson and Morris.

    I think Chandler is rustier than the Tin Man. Morris is not a player I have faith in. And it's the right time to start forgetting about Johnson, the poor man is in his last legs.

    So there you go.
     
  5. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    liga mx has more money, which means more overall league quality and most importantly depth of quality, but its not as clear as many think (despite my railing against average mls players im not at all someone who thinks is a worthless league).

    omar and besler? zardes probably has close to 50. rimando possibly? dont think beckerman does. ralston, ching are too far back...

    your third question is tricky. 94 we had college/domestic players and we didnt have a "real" domestic league. 02 might fit? i dunno.

    im just trying to answer off the top of my head (and mexico can suck it, im not in the caring about mexico business).

    while im not as down on mls as many are i agree in general we skew older, more domestic- but i also think thats an utter lack of balls as much as anything else. its "safe"- you see the same thing within mls itself- until the last few years mls coaches preferred average 27 year old concacaf players to young americans. us soccer has no courage whatsoever.

    my only point was a vague, undefined data dump doest make any case for anything. if you want to make the argument make the argument.

    portraying our u20s as a bunch of kids playing in germany or the netherlands or whatever is disingenuous. if you think hannovers u-21 squad is more valuable than playing in vancouver or sitting on atlantas bench (please, for the love of god everyone- DONT make this about into a whole carleton thing- its just an example) then say so. thats a good discussion to have.

    on the other hand starting for leipzig vs starting for toronto or columbus is a stupid ass discussion- thats where the frustration comes in for most of us (including myself), that we have to listen to our managers/fed say theyre comparable.

    im not disagreeing with your point that us soccer has a serious domestic/abroad valuation problem. i just dont think the roster breakdown as you presented it made a clear case for anything.
     
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  6. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    Again he of ZERO goals scored in 8 of 9 hex qualifiers.

    You think it's hard to beat that record? I don't. Guy scores at home against carribean sides, and second and third tier Central American sides, and gets shut out EVERY TIME on the road or at home vs Mexico and Costa Rica. Don't get me started on tournaments. He either misses them due to injury (WC '14, Copa America '16), misses them due to sucking in qualifying (WC '18) or just fails to score at all in them (WC '10).

    Yes, by far our best 9. Bobby Wood's corpse has a better hammy than Jozy's, and a better track record scoring in games against quality opponents on the road and at home as well, and we all know what just about everyone thinks about Wood.

    Whatever one may think of Nova, or heck, Soto, one thing can be said, they'd be hard pressed to be shut out as consistently as Jozy was in the hex if ever given the chance. Hell Soto just scored a brace against U20 Powerhouse Nigeria, and U20 WC favorite France, a France side loaded w/starters around Europe, kinda more difficult to score against them, then against freaking Panama or Honduras, or a g-- d--- T&T U23 Rec Ball side on the road.

    So by far our best forward? That's just absurd. Forwards play (Jozy rarely does) and Forwards score (Jozy rarely does, unless at home against a side ranked outside the top 50-100 in the world). I get that he has all those goals, against crap sides at home in friendlies, I also get that he hasn't done a meaningful thing against a quality opponent for the USMNT in a meaningful game in nearly ten freaking years.
     
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  7. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    he scored 4 and assisted 3 in winning the gold cup two years ago.
     
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  8. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We lost the last match because of a inferior squad selection and tactics. I'm concerned about defenders like Gonzalez, Lima, Lovitz, and Ream. I don't want to see Trapp and Bradley in the hot sun facing off against athletic attackers. If this is what we will see there will be some struggles.
     
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  9. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    With Cameron & Besler out of the picture, it's going to be hard to find the smart CB to organize the last line. Let's hope Miazga is it, but I have my doubts. Maybe that's why Egg wants Adams in the defense, to be the leader & brains of the last line.
     
  10. Martino2Buddle

    Crystal Palace
    United States
    Dec 12, 2005
    Richmond, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah I love Lewis but wanted Amon too (speed kills) and I guess I understand the Lovitz pick but wanted Robinson on this roster. I know he wasn't good the other night but nobody was (aside from Holmes) and he was setup to fail with Gregg's experiment. The fact that Omar gets in over CCV is frustrating but not surprising. Omar being Berhalter's former teammate is unfortunately gonna be the gift that keeps on giving.
     
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  11. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've responded to these bad arguments in the Jozy thread.

    You didn't even try.
     
  12. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Trapp has always been a toilet paper DM.

    But what his fan club always tried to sell us on was his passing ability. Problem is he physically can't handle this level and the increased pressure on the ball to the extent his passing is actually a liability.

    A prime Bradley was able to shield, turn and escape. Prime Trapp cannot. If your DM cannot collect and turn past his mark, gain the separation needed to play at tempo as a fulcrum, you have a massive problem.

    Adams can though and does it for a UCL bound club. Yet Trapp is written into the first XI before him.

    I'm not sure I've ever seen such a clownish coaching decision. It's as if as soon as Berhalter knew he'd get the job his first item on the agenda was building the team and formation around Trapp.

    He probably knew it far in advance too. So he asked Sarachan to make him captain. Then out of nowhere Trapp shows up wearing the captain's band.
     
  13. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    I think you might have made my argument for me.

    I just find Berhalter literally only putting the three European kids (Adams, Pulisic, and Mckennie) that he HAD to put on the roster plus two dual nationals that are getting their first cup of coffee (Boyd and Holmes) pretty fricken bizzare, especially given the number of 24 plus MLSers.

    What do Dempsey, Beasley, Howard, Bradley, Donovan, Altidore all of in common?

    Most capped players of the past 15 years and they all went abroad at some point BEFORE or AT the age of 24.

    I'm no Klinsmann apologist. But he was dealt a player pool that for whatever reason from basically birth years 90-94 were berift of talent. And our new guy!? He just called in the bulk of that MLS talent? It's bizarre. This is literally the Chris Wondolowski of rosters.

    I'm going to give Berhalter a leash. I can think of some logic to it. Maybe he wants to really expose a lot of MLSers that are playing well to the very small European core that we have and see what sticks. Maybe he wants to solidify it's not just being in Europe but you need to be playing for your club. Which I don't think our pool is strong enough to sustain necessarily (more talented guys that would be day one starters in the MLS can get stuck on the bench in Europe)...

    But moving forward after this Gold Cup if he continues to call in this terrible excuse for a roster.... We aren't setting us up for any sort of advancement for Qatar 2022....
     
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  14. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would think it would be easy to find a decent soccer manager with the budget we have and the talent.
     
  15. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    There you go... thinking. There is no thought in Fed
     
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  16. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    After hearing one too many nihilistic derisive comment about the U20s, such as that it doesn't mean anything because who knows which ones turn out, it starts to remind me of excuse making Dynamo fans somewhat oblivious how you get to a championship team. They'll say yeah the college draft picks stunk but drafts are a crapshoot. And the free agent drafts, oh, barely anyone's available. No big whoop, get it next time. And the academy, meh, there are better free agents. Et cetera,

    And at some juncture I point out to them how cumulatively dismissive they have been, that the team now has to be composed entirely of free agent transfers or MLS trade dumps. Good luck with that. The senior team HAS to come from SOMEPLACE. It doesn't occur by magic.

    I realize U20s can be flashes in the pan. But the fact you don't know precisely which one is your great draft pick doesn't mean you blow off the draft. To me it says something if the U20 team is consistently good but not converting into senior players. Not just crapshoot. Like something is wrong in the process. I hope this bunch fixes it by sheer talent but one still might want to work on the machine when it malfunctions.

    To me something that should be a component of building into a strong senior team is fizzling out. It doesn't strike you as odd that the best U20 team in the region for a few tournament parallels the senior team going off the cliff for the first time in 30 years? That's odd.

    FWIW you can look at Weah and Sargent at U23 in March, or whether them being there when they won't be released makes any sense, or Sargent getting one game all summer, and that doesn't scream a senior coach on top of the levers and buttons to maximize his youth players. If anything it sounds like a Klinsmannesque mind gamer messing with the heads of perfectly serviceable senior players who should be at least bench options. Or maybe sufficiently mad scientist plus uninformed that he is unwittingly reinventing the wheel, a popular form of self aggrandizement among American leaders these days.
     
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  17. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
    Can someone please pull a Tonya Harding on Lovitz, Omar, and Morris, so that we can add Gloster, Richards, and Weah to the roster?
     
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  18. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    After watching Weah in his games last year I wondered why he wasn’t in this year’s senior team. I pointed out he already has a NT goal. I pointed out his strike rate despite a tough Celtic situation. That essentially when he was played he scored fairly fast. Because of the stubborn BS where we pretend he has something to prove, I get to watch him light up the U20s. Is he in any way flunking the tests he keeps having to take?

    This is a waste of my time. This is a waste of his time. You can run him through this obstacle course that Trapp never had to pass while Trapp effs up on the senior team. This is not about earning it. This is playing favorites and then coming up with a new hurdle the omitted player has to jump.

    Sorry this is my deal with USMNT is some people who are the coach’s bestie go straight to the team and the others have to run the gauntlet. This has nothing to do with field performance for the NT.

    This should be the exact opposite. Weah should be core and cut slack. Trapp should be put to the test every time he plays a minute at peril of omission. The team is being run precisely backwards.

    It’s also amusing that all the club snobs evaporate when it’s about Sargent and Weah, and not someone far more frustrating like Brooks or Yedlin. Where are the “but he’s PSG” crowd to defend their dude. No the ones we get out the club affiliations for are the ones whose NT performances should be questioned. Which comes full circle back to the Trapp discussion earlier.
     
  19. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Are you completely making up a POV for me? What is with this board and people literally putting words in other people's mouths, getting angry about it and then insulting them? Your whole post screams of an unbalanced person screaming at imaginary windmills.

    In general, I think the roster selection is uninspired (and I'm pretty damn sure I wrote so). I'm more excited about Boyd and Holmes than most. I can't blame Berhalter for not bringing Robinson, though.

    And I wanted Sargent there. Hell, six months ago, I thought he was better than Jozy. His last few performances have been rusty, so I'm not sure I'm there yet right now. But over Zardes? Of course?

    I also have no problems with calling in guys who don't have first team minutes -- especially when you have a camp to evaluate them.

    But I'm still excited to see what our players can do with some time in camp.
     
  20. Mskdevil22

    Mskdevil22 New Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jun 7, 2019
    So let me clarify somethings about my post. It does not matter if our players are on loan in Europe or not. Those leagues are still better than the MLS. We have tons of quality in Europe. A second division England is still far better than MLS. The bottom line is we will never be a great soccer nation with the MLS as our development program
     
  21. UncagedGorilla

    Barcelona
    Sep 22, 2009
    East Bay, CA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa


    Someone posted this on Reddit. Scroll through this guy's tweets in the thread then bring it on Zardes/GGG defenders!
     
  22. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    The championship is not far better than MLS.

    Between you and OfficeSpace, we’ve had some interesting new members joining BS....
     
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  23. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    And Bedoya is a glue guy. He is/was exactly the kind of Vet I wanted w/the next generation for a year or 18 months or so. A guy w/experience at the top levels (in France and in WC '14), a guy who works both sides of the ball and reached his career heights more on hard work, than on any kind of elite talent or technical skill, and a guy who was/is highly motivated and knew how to handle the s show that was the final four games of the Hex w/o going cancer the way Cameron did. He didn't carry the wait of having captained a disaster and been caught on camera slow walking to take a corner w/our World Cup slipping away. He didn't carry the weight of having presided over a divided locker room and leadership questions. As such he was perfect, so of course after Portugal, we ignored him and brought back the same old losers responsible for the Couva/Hex disaster and the general decline of the program as a whole.

    I am not arguing Bedoya is or ever was a great player. He was just a very solid player, and a very solid, efficient two way guy that could teach the young 'uns how to handle becoming a USMNT player and how to help dig us out of the whole his generation of players threw us down. So of course we got rid of him for past it vets who played a key role in previous failures, and never was options like Trapp who just flat out suck. Just total incompetence at all levels.
     
  24. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Tyler Adams says hi.
     
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  25. TMBMiles

    TMBMiles Member

    Dortmund
    United States
    Mar 31, 2017
    Easily the most infuriating part of Gregg's tenure thus far for me has been the sham "competition" for roster/Xl spots.

    We had 2 years to experiment and bleed new players and Wil Trapp of all people was just penciled in as a starter from day one, despite maybe our current best and in-form player in the entire pool, killing it at the same position at one of the 20 best teams in Europe.

    Novakovic makes 4 camps and can't get anything more than 10 garbage time minutes in 2 games. Zardes makes one camp and immediately gets a start over him. Novakovic is never heard from again.

    Horvath is keeping clean sheets against Monaco and Atletico Madrid in the champions league, and it doesn't matter because Steffen is bolted to the crossbar in goal.

    "But Tyler Adams is playing the most important position on the entire team! The role was made for him!" That's bullshit, window dressing and deep down everyone knows it.
     
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