Ballon D'or 2013 thread

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by ---Z---, Dec 12, 2012.

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  1. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    IN 1997, according to Zagallo, he dreamt to build his future WC winning team with Ro-Ro partner in front and claim them as new pair of Pele + Tostao (at WC70)

    upload_2014-3-2_20-51-6.png
     
  2. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Based on matches ive seen I prefer Ro-Ro over Pele Garrincha aswell @greatstriker11
     
  3. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I remember there's a thread opened on which duo/partner was the greatest in football.

    Strange, that no one mentioned the brilliance of the Ro-Ro duo in that thread???

    @JamesBH11 @Jaweirdo @Pipiolo
     
  4. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    A raw statistic of GPG does not mean anything without taking into account the respective leagues. The GPG at Serie A when Maradona played there was much lower than the one at the Paulista/Brasileiros of Pele's times, and this is obvious looking at the quality of defenders who played there: Scirea, Cabrini, Passarella, Baresi, Maldini, Junior, Edinho, Vierchowod, Costacurta, Tassoti, Brehme, Briegel, Julio Cesar, etc.

    @JamesBH11

    Pele and Garrincha is not a true duo per se, as Romario and Ronaldo. Garrincha played very wide on the right, and his crosses were mostly directed for Vava or Pepe, either that or he took those curving shots to goal, either to score or create a tap-in rebound for the forwards. Pele ran from the upper end of midfield into the side of the center forward, either left or right. It was extremely effective to have both far away from each other, as it stretched the opponent's defense thin...obviously the success of Brazil reflects that.

    @Jaweirdo
     
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  5. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    But he's not on the cover, i remember the cover being a bunch of players. I don't remember Zidane being in the cover, I might be wrong.
    That is the most eurocentric and self-serving comment you could have made, congratulations. I hope now you can feel better about being superior.

    You have no idea what were the expectations on Romario coming into the World Cup, you have a completely different view on things as South Americans, and you take your view as the world view... even if you take just the population of Brazil alone and it's pretty much 40% of the population of Europe, and South America has 390 million people that don't share your views.

    You probably don't even know the goal against Uruguay (which everyone in Brazil knows) and you don't know Romario's famous quote in 1993.

    "Game against Uruguay will be a war, but I came to classify Brazil do the World Cup" - This on his first game back to the Brazilian NT.

    you guys have a whole different lore of football than us. You just need to understand that and accept it. It's not about weighting people's opinions, we're not competing to see who is right or who is wrong, we're on the internet which is a World Wide tool and comparing opinions from different parts of the world.

    Not sure how you can make moderator if you can't even grasp the idea of a world wide net and try to offend people by weighing their opinions, you should be ashamed of yourself and be the first one to explain to others this is an international forum and all opinions count, because opinions come from different points of view.

    Shame on you.
     
  6. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    one from the PK
    Villa participated just as much on the final as Baggio did, Villa wasn't MIA, I just watched the game this weekend. Villa was far from MIA, he even almost scored.
    Most people hold that opinion (including me before re-watching it)
    Yet your top 5 probably don't include any of these players.
    You're making it something bigger than it is, you don't need to be a great player to put the ball into the back of the net from that position, or to hold at that position to make the strike. It's the kind of striker you see weekly on the highlight reels.
    Nope I went back and watched all goals in 1994 WC just to make sure.
    here you can watch them.

    Baggio was the one on the Pitch. That's a simple answer. If you take Messi out of Barcelona, think Barcelona will score 50 goals less during the season? maybe 20 less... not 50 less.
    I watched v Nigeria and v Brazil. Baggio played BETTER v Brazil... but didn't score. I am the one making arguments that people have short term memory, they need to watch the game again... you're telling me to go watch it but I have. Now... what was the last time you watched these games? Most people comment that same as the next person, soap box opinions..
     
  7. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Winning the Scudetto cannot be what throws Maradona over the top, if it was his highest peak he would have won everything, not just the WC and the Scudetto. winning continental tournaments is a bigger achievement.
     
  8. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Honestly, I think CR7 can be the best of all time, all he really has to do is win at Brazil, with a great performance. That will make him the best out of all times. Same goes for Messi, but for Messi is worse... he doesn't win it can destroy his legacy, unlike CR7 because he'll forever have the "he played for Portugal" excuse on not winning a Cup.
     
  9. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yeah I agree, based on what i've seen Pele was just as much a part of a duo with Garrincha as Robben is with Gotze. That is to say they weren't making very many interlinking plays up the field with one another, but rather kinda did their own thing and let their talents speak for themselves. The combination of Romario and Ronaldo was so butterly smooth, I remember being surprised at how unselfish they each were, and how devastating that was at CA97
     
  10. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Amen!
     
  11. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I don't think that's all he'd have to do, just based on what hes done on the field and brought to the game, he'd also have to have a long peak at the top as well to be in discussion of a top 5 player. Messi has the innate talent to crack the top 5 with a normal career span whereas CR7 lacks that it factor. In simpler terms if you watch Messi in a randomly selected game you could understand why he'd be in contention for the all time argument whereas you'd have to watch CR7 over the span of many years to understand why. My opinion anyhow
     
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  12. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    But Ronaldo already has the long peak. Since 06 Ronaldo has been a top 5 player, twice top player and 4 years second best. That's a very long peak, and he's not done yet, if he continues to play for Real in La Liga that's just going to keep going. Him winning a CL would make him one of the best evers, but him carrying Portugal to a WC, would make him likely top ever, since he'll actually have the claim of Carried a sub-par team to a championship.
     
  13. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I wouldn't call Portugal sub par (on paper at least) if he wins a world cup I think that would put him above Zidane. I don't think hes capable of pulling a Maradona
     
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  14. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Maradona's team is better than the current Portugal team.
     
  15. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    So? that was why Maradona won TOP scorer in SerieA with ONLY 15goals ...
    Pele scored 100+goals over 80+games vs ALL CLUBS in EUROPE ... (and PLEEZZZZ do the home work in that era at club level GPG before BS oK?)

    Cruijff had said: " I could be a new Di Stefano, but Pele's STATS is just beyond the boundary of logic "
    So TRUE ... NO ONE could ever REACH it ... (Maradona? very far ... from goals stats)
     
  16. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Obviously Ronaldo's peak began in 2007-8 season ( no-way was he a top 5 player in '06 ... not even top 5 in England). That's in club football. If talking international football, it started even later than that. Six years is quite long, but considering his peak isn't as high as many others, he really needs at least 3-4 more peak years IMO.
     
  17. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    why not 06-07? not so obvious to me... He had his best season on 07-08 but his following season was just like the 06-07... why are you not counting that one again?
     
  18. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    If you consider scoring 20-25 goals in a 60-game season as "peak" than it just reaffirms my point that his peak isn't as high as many others. You make a good point though. Maybe 2008-9 shouldn't count as a great season. But I think the lower stats had something to do with moving Rooney into a more central role IIRC.
     
  19. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Well not really ...
    By 1986: Argentina was ranked #6 (before Maradona won WC = Argentina =#1 )
    By 1990: Argentina was ranked #26 (Maradona took them up to #12- being runner up WC90)

    Now, Portugal are ranked at #9 (even higher than Argentina in average 85-90 of Maradona time)
     
  20. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Those last 3 years in Man U. to me it's where it all started. He gets 17 then 30 then 18 goals in the league before he gets transferred, without the consistency of those 3 years he likely wouldn't go to Real for such a large sum, then again after what Real did by buying Bale on his first good year by paying Ronaldo's price, you just never know.

    Ronaldo really only had seasons like the ones he's having now in Real Madrid.
     
  21. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    We're talking specifically about the 1986 team. Which you said it was #6.

    But besides that.. just look at the talent on both squads, without Ronaldo, this portuguese team is not sniffing the World Cup.
     
  22. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    :ROFLMAO:

    No wonder there's those that don't rate him so highly, they don't know what they're talking about!

    To put your statement into perspective, for the 2006-2007 EPL, CR7 won both the Young Player of the Year and the Player of the Year. Something not done in 3 decades. Not even Top 5 in England...:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
     
  23. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Maradona was a playmaker at Napoli, Pele more of an inside forward at Santos. Besides that, factor in how much easier it was to score in Brazil during the 50s/60s than in Italy during the 80s, and that explains in great part the disparity.

    Goals is also not the ultimate criteria, otherwise Gerd Muller would be the greatest WC player of all time :rolleyes: Other attributes, such as passing, dribbling, touch, leadership, etc. are just as valuable - especially in a midfielder.

    @JamesBH11
     
  24. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    #3849 BocaFan, Mar 3, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014
    I like how 2006 suddenly got turned into "2006-7". :rolleyes: In 2006 (ie the year we were talking about), RVP was Man Utd's top scorer, followed-by Rooney; Henry was the EPL's best player , Patrick Vieira scored more EPL and World Cup goals than CRonaldo. CRonaldo finished 14th in Ballon d'Or voting behind Jens Lehmann :D (that's the REAL Ballon d'Or, not the FIFA popularity-contest/ imitation of it).

    In the global context, Man Utd finished dead last in their CL group-stage! Ronaldo scored 0 CL goals in 2006 and 1 WC goal (penalty, naturally).
    :cautious:
     
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