No my point is often, many clubs will create an A team or a B/C/D team. Parents pay the same $ regardless of where their kid is placed (with exception to additional tourneys - which is normal across the board). The issue I see when not pooling is that the A coach will run a practice 3 times a week - he/she comes with a C or B license and an average of 5-10 years coaching. The B/C/D coach comes with an E license, holds practices twice a week and often will not engage in additional tourneys. Just on paper alone - it would appear that under this concept, the club has decided they don't need to put anywhere near the resources into teams below an A level - essentially relegating many of those B or less players in that level for years to come. Now as far as training is concerned - I'll outline what I have seen in the 9 years I have been at our club... On the girls side specifically. u8-u10 (boys and girls train together) - 50+ kids and 3 trainers - all training together 2 days a week. u11 - u12(girls only) - 30 kids w/ 2 trainers - all training together. u13-u15(girls only) - 45 players w 3 trainers - all training together. We have a u14 and u15 DA group that practices together with 2 trainers as well. Each group above has a leader who outlines training for the week - the rest of the coaches assigned to that age back up that trainer at 2-3 stations per practice. Each practice session is 2-3 hours per day - 3-5 times per week depending on age. In 9 years, we've never had an issue with player to coach ratio and all the players get the same time on the ball regardless of where they land in terms of skill. Some people will say we can do this because we are a large club. I say other clubs cannot do it because they cannot recruit or retain. That's because they are running their programs the same way soccer was run 20 years ago.
Agreeed - so let them train together and move players for games - back and forth depending on commitment, performance and opponent.
Got caught up in something else before I could edit. Training sessions are 1.5 - 2 hours per session - dependent on age.
In theory, that's completely correct. And parents bear some of the blame for it not working out more often. But I've never been at a club where the B team players got treated the same as the A team players. The training opportunities were different. They got less coaching and less attention.
And that is a problem IMO. No one can tell the path of a 9 year old kid - when they are going to pop. A lot of that is not down to only skill but personal life as well. I always use the comparison of the young player who has multipl siblings -around the same age from a family where both mom and dad are present. They will develop a level of confidence and thusly execution far faster then the single child being raised by one parent in a broken home. It will take them - likely more time but there are plenty of articles that track the latter into the upper echelons of sports. They are getting it - taking it all in during practice - just lack the early confidence that other players already have.
Maybe it's because I don't have the experience you guys have. I've only been involved with two clubs. To my understanding, both of those clubs' B team have had the same number of practices/games/tournaments (or within 1-2). Yes, I'm sure the B team coach may not have as high a license as the A coach (at the smaller club, the same person coaches both, when they had A/B).
Our club has the same amount of practices and games not tournaments and yes the coach of the B team definitly does not have the same licenses.
Well this is all just perspective based on experience. Hell there are parents out my way who think that mixing their B and D teams for u13 at one club is the "The ultimate player development league!" That may help those D players improve but it's not doing anything much for the B players. But those parents don't know that.
Volk isn’t mixing u13 teams for an intraclub winter indoor league the same thing as pooling? They return to their team for games when the spring season resumes. Are 12 year olds fully developed or not?
How does it work with games? Which coach goes with which team or is it just whichever coach is available on that day at that time?
I really don't think that is the context of where I was going but to answer your question, no - that's just interleague play. Pooling is a concept that is based out of a desire to embrace developmental soccer. That would include fluid movement for any player at any time for the purpose of continued individual development. Not just running an interleague program and then sending kids back to their respected teams. All teams should train together with a qualified coach leading the way - developing weekly training sessions and going through those with those coaches who are part of that age group. Also that includes continuity in coaches development - where coaches are getting the D - C- B licenses and more. The club I am refering to is essentially running the "ultimate" interleage because over the last 2 seasons all other clubs have basically pulled out and registered their organizations at two other facilities. Interleague in this case is a result of having nothing else to do/no one else to play - not a plan that was born at part of the program itself. I believe in fact, the Director reached out to one of those other two facilities to move those groups there but was told that it was too late. So this interleague is a back up of a back up of 2 seasons with no competition. To their defense, the facility is beautiful and the manager has done a good job with updating. It suffers from poor location and bad timing (Canlan taking over LBFH and lowering costs and the emergence of Lifezone 360 which has embraced a multitude of other active business within that complex to offset expenses of the massive monthly utilities in particular, which these places cost during the winter months. I'm not sure where we're going with your u12 comment but generally I think I have read that many girls do not start peaking until 15 or their sophmore year. Boys by far earlier.
So 2-3 coaches per age group. Some ages can be mixed depending on numbers. You will have one trainer who leads each group... - Head trainer boys/girls u8-u9 - Head trainer boys/girls u10-u12 - Head trainer Boys u12 - u14/High School - Head trainer Girls u13-u15/High School - ECNL/DA coaches (u12-High School) The head trainer creates the programming based on club objectives first, then players skill/needs. 2-3 coaches work with each trainer - basically setting up stations and running them on multiple fields/work out centers/3v3 courts etc.. Players rotate usually 3 times per sessions unless the session is geared towards 3v3/futsal or interleague games. The neat thing is that all these coaches have continued education required by the club. That means the head trainer can/may move up to ECNL/DA coach or youth director with the supporting coaches moving up to the head training positions. So it's just not the kids growing but the coaches as well. This tends to build good stability at clubs because it creates an atmosphere of consistancy which helps to manage retention. Rarely do parents have to worry about who their kids coach will be - as that coach (head trainer) is there for 2-3 years. That goes for all players from A to D level training. It's a pretty fair shake. The only downside is when kids creep towards that ECNL and DA level things change dramatically as competition pushes some kids out - equality is not as strong of a factor at that point.
I was asking about games. All of these 50+ kids play league games plus tournaments. Who coaches the games? I can't imagine that the head coach can make it to every league game and tournament game...so who gets the most experienced coach for games? Does it rotate equally, is it a crap shoot, or are there coaches assigned to each team (however fluid that team may be). If assigned to a team, who gets the best coach and why?
Well where we are at, all 3 coaches are excellent - I don't think there are any parents amongst the 05/04/03 groups who would be set off with either one of our three coaching. I cannot speak for parents of other groups but I can say that coaches where we are at must continue their education and meet as a club every quarter to discuss clud/player/USSF and league concepts/issues and so on. Our style does not change from coach to coach - they are all on the same page, as I mentioned - the head trainer sets the pace and the rest follow. In the years I have been there - it's never been an issue.
Back on topic here what this basically says to me is "I dont want to taint the 1st lineup of my top players with players from the 2nd line." I've tried to reconcile this in my head a number of ways and it just doesn't sit right. Especially given that my daughter is on the 2nd line and happens to be a pretty darn good player.
Sounds like you'd be fine with the set up had your daughter been on the 1st line. I suspect none of the 1st line parents are complaining so you are normal to think the way you are thinking. Does that make sense? Does that help reassure a bit?
Actually a lot of the 1st line parents dont understand it either and feel like its not fair to some of the 2nd line gals since its tough to evaluate a player fairly if your not playing with the better kids.
And that’s the rub isn’t it… As parents, we are not objective…we are not unbiased. First and foremost, we are advocates for our kids… Do we really want Youth Soccer to be better…or do we really just want Youth Soccer to benefit our child as much as possible? Do we even know the difference? Would we really sacrifice the latter to really improve the former? I doubt it… Nobody says boo when their kid is on the A team or the 1st lineup or getting the “special treatment” or whatnot… I am not casting stones; I am as guilty as anyone…
I can conclude my expectation as a parent as below: when my child makes a pass on the field, I hope his teammates are in the expected position to receive the pass properly. This is how positive feedback and mutual reinforcement work in training. If the teammates are not skillful enough to run to the open position and receive the pass properly, this is a negative feedback to my son's correct decision making. In that situation, I'd question why my son is in that mix of kids. Maybe you can call me harsh or selfish, but every child only has this much time to train and play. If we expect great outcome, we need to make the best out of practice first.
Sorry, but this statement is bogus...you can evaluate a player's talent regardless of the players around them. This is either an inexperienced coach making decisions (and)/or a biased and dissatisfied parent trying to justify their player's selection.