Things have improved since the 1970s, but nevertheless it's safer to be at a U.S. sporting event wearing visiting colors than it is to be walking in the neighborhood the stadium when a game is not being played.
But the problem is that they are spread throught the home crowd fans. I hate it. I hate going to Yankee Stadium and sittin gnext to Boston Scum. I hate going to Madison Square Garden and sitting next to Islander scum. I HATE IT. It leads to nothing but agita the entire game.
In the past that was indeed what it meant. Nowadays there are usually a few stop offs indeed. I myself have stopped going to away games by organized transport about 6 years ago. Nowadays I hardly visit any away matches anymore. I've never minded a good ehhh physical disagreement in the past, but after a while you get pretty tired of spending your day running from police and sometimes not even getting inside to watch the game. The organized transport really isn't my thing. So that leaves me with very little. But that's okay... matches abroad aren't regulated quite as heavily although that will probably happen in the near future. That will probably be the day I say goodbye to that lifestyle, as far as I haven't already. Shame True, although for several clubs the regulations (especially the way they are upheld) have become tighter over the past two years. But did you travel to away matches? Because as far as I know this system applies for almost all clubs and matches when it comes to away matches. Strict regulations have little to do with so little people being able to come to A'dam. It's mostly a choice... quite a few away fans consider the tension and hostile environment to be part of the fun. Some also enjoy the potential for trouble with the home fans. But coming to A'dam has little to offer in this sense. Out of the train on to the platform, up the stairs, into a long blinded tube above ground level and into the away end. For the hardcore following football is simply about more than the game that's played. It's about adventure, and unless you can walk around freely... A'dam has little to offer in this sense. Things have really become a bit dull at Ajax games. And like it or not, the potential for trouble does have something to do with that. BTW, NEC fans were allowed free passage to A'dam two years ago as sort of a test case and it turned out in a reasonably big fight near the stadium. That was probably the last time that happened.
home stands each time. I don't think I've ever been in an away end at any ground other than with Reading. also tried to get into a game at Utrecht on the same weekend we went to AZ Alkmaar, but that had sold out and no sign of a tout anywhere. We intended to go to a game at De Graafschap on the same weekend we went to NEC Nijmegen, but the Dutch rail company decided to do an impression of British Rail on a bad day and kept cancelling the trains and we gave up. Both times we found warm comforting pubs with good beer and live football on TV back in Amsterdam, which made up for it. I remember seeing an NEC Nijmegen fanzine whch made a lot of an apparently violent rivalry between them and Vitesse. Strange because fanzines here (where they still exist) are generally totally opposed to violence. Also strange because the walk from Nijmegen station to the ground didn't exactly fill me with the sense that this was a town breeding excessive amounts of pent up anger.
Good to hear. My primary source of English soccer journalism is FourFourTwo, which features a hoolie groveling article nearly every issue. I had hoped that FourFourTwo didn't speak for England in this regard.
Unfortunately with hooliganism, people like to read about it and either a) remember the good old days or b) be smug that they were above participating in it.
It might have to do with the fact that in the NL (hardcore) supportersculture is still (although less than before) defined by the idea of 'ends' like in the UK in the past. These ends (called 'sides' in the NL) have always been in the midst of hooligan culture and especially in the beginning many boys saw the emerging hooligan game as (almost) harmless fun. It was not broadly accepted, but generally accepted by people in the ends as part of the game. It's these groups which, as they evolved, are responsible for most that goes on in and around the stadium. Both 'positive' and 'negative'. Many of the fanzines around here come from people that grew up within the emerging 'side' culture and these people accept violence as part of that culture, like it was in their younger days. Only since a few years the hooligan element has become more detached from the general fanatical following, although not to the extent it has in the UK. BTW, Nijmegen has a few (mostly white) working class neighbourhoods. And in general it doesn't really matter where you're from, does it? You don't have to be a hopeless piece of white thrash with an alcoholic inmate for a father. There's socially less adapted behaviour everywhere. NEC has a pretty big hooligan following. Probably the 5th largest in the NL. Hell, even AZ has been in the news a few times the past 2 years
Yeah, I guess. Personally, I never saw the attraction. I went to high school with the U.S. equivalent of hoolies -- future jailbirds of three different colors (white, brown, black) who delighted in posturing, threatening, striking an attitude. They too were proud of their alleged authenticity. These hoolies were as Richard described, braver in groups & when picking on weaklings, generally more annoying than dangerous, and unrelentingly, painfully boring. I recall thinking, "When I graduate from high school, I never have to be around people like this anymore." Happily, I was correct.
I know American soccer is less crazy than European, but there are still issues. My dad and I and our 2 Romanian friends drove up to San Jose to see our team the LA Galaxy play the San Jose Earthquakes. The Galaxy pummeled the Earthquakes 4-1, and took sole possession of first place in the Western Conference. After the game we went to a sports bar near the stadium. We were all decked out in our Galaxy jerseys and clothing, and were approached outside by a few men. They told us we better get the Fvck out of here or it is going to get ugly. Luckily for us there was a local policemen standing not 5 feet from them. He heard what they had said and took them into custody. Gotta love stupid wannabe soccer hooligans. In repsonse to the guy saying that there aren't many away fans at American sporting events. For the most part that is true, but there are certain teams who have bigger fan bases. Mostly away fans for basketball or hockey or baseball are people who live where their team is playing and just go to the game to root for their team the only chance they get to see them live all year. However, College Football is where that does not apply. College team usually bring about 10-20,000 fans to every away game. The one flaw in that plan is that the host university does not really want to allocate that many tickets to the away sections. So the fans are forced to buy tickets in the home sections. And at 3 o'clock college games where people have been drinking since 10 make it a pretty ugly scene afterward, especially with the college kids who don't know any better.
I took the Fenway Park tour the weekend after the Cardinals played the Red Sox. Our guide advised that he thought about 10,000 St. Louis fans came to Boston for the series. (or 5,000, all of whom took the tour twice!) I've heard that SL has major mid-west support, since they were once the only NL team west of the Mississippi, & that many travel long distances to attend home games & away games in Chicago.
This weekend should be fun, but i doubt there will be any viloence... Wigan have a 25,000 seater stadium but have an average attendance of around 9,500. There have already been about 6,000 tickets sold in the away end. should make for a good day out.
That they do. O'Hare and Midway are a sea of Cardinal red on Friday afternoon if the Cards are in for a weekend series. But it's soooo different than in Europee. Typical Cardinal fans travelling for the series will be a businessman dad, a blonde soccer mom, 14 year old daughter, 12 year son. Each wearing head-to-toe red Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Like a 3-day family picnic. Wear your red, go to the games, walk Michigan avenue. Great time. Sound like the away supporters for Marseilles, or Milwall, or Lazio? Didn't think so.
NEC with the fifth largest??, yes we all know the big four, Ajax, Feyenoord, ADO Den Haag, Utrecht. Surely PSV or even Den Bosch or Groningen are bigger?? Can also remember , and being shocked to read it as you never picture it at an american sporting event, there being trouble at a Philadelphia Eagles vs Washington Redskins NFL game which was held up for about 20 minutes. Think it was in 2002.
I think NEC are generally accepted in NL as the fifth biggest. Groningen are 'rated' quite high as well but I don't remember Groningen ever setting foot in A'dam, R'dam, Den Haag or Utrecht. NEC has. PSV has only become a 'player' that is taken seriously since the mid 90's and especially since the beginning of the current century. Den Bosch are way past their prime.
Now that John O'Brien is at ADO Den Haag...... what can you tell me about the team, and their fan support?
Well that does surprise me about NEC, apart from their ridiculous choice of team colours (red, green and black...anyone?) didn't think they had much going for them. Now with Den Haag thats a different kettle of fish, have always known about their "likeness" for a tear up.Good choice of colours aswell, green and yellow. Whats with clubs like Vitesse?. We played them a few years ago in the UEFA cup and couldn't find anything. Just like to stress that it was a few years ago and i've now grown up!!!!
Vitesse have a group (NEC's main rival btw) but they're not that big. Haven't had very much going up till 1998 I think. Oh well... I've grown up as well and am currently 'persona non grata' if you know what I mean. But I wonder if I will ever grow up that much. But a lot of things have changed and I dunno what the future will bring. Don't really care too much as I have other things to worry about at the moment
Yes i know what you mean!! Will say it was very strange to go all the way to Arnhem and not come across anything, what with how english and dutch clubs are percieved if you know what i mean!!