it wasn't about them being dim particularly, more that that despite being decked out in several hundred pounds worth of clothing they still manage to look like they've covered themselves in pritt-stick and run through a jumble sale. I look at football today and other than there being more women than in the past, the make up of crowds hasn't really noticeably changed. Perhaps it's a little more obvious in the premiership where nearly everyone is a season-ticket holder, but elsewhere I don't see the middle classes being any more noticeable now than in the 80s. They were there then and they are there now. The only difference is that fans of different types are more mingled due to the pot luck of where a computer allocates you a ticket in a stand, whereas in the past, on the terraces, you had certain areas of the terrace which would attract the different types of fan. You generally wouldn't get the guy with his kids, or older guy, in the middle of the singers, but that doesn't mean they weren't there before.
Speaking as a Halifax fan, thats what I'd recognise as happening now. For those of you not familiar, we have a terrace at the Shay, so you can stand anywhere. A lot of the away fans are not the sort of people I'd stand anywhere near at a home game, so people do separate out a lot more. I'll still see a good collection of flat caps. And sadly all too many BNP items.
The only violence I've seen in Canadian sport is at Toronto - Hamilton CFL (Canadian Football League). Many fights in the stands when a Home team fan gets in to it with a visiting fan. This doesnt happen much though.
I always find it slightly odd that though americans are very civil to each other at sporting events, some of the stadiums where games are played are in right dodgy areas (Whitesox), so although you will get no trouble at the game you could walk out the stadium, take a wrong turning, walk a few blocks, and be in a serious trouble. Only ground i can think of where the area could be classed as dodgy in England is at Millwall.
Oh and Spurs isn't to sharp either!! and Man City used to be before they moved to their new posh stadium!
I think for any visiting fan, they'd hardly describe the areas around Anfield and Goodison as those very nice to wander around in the dark. Area around West Ham is scum - more so matchdays. Leeds ground is not in the most pleasant of areas. I think there are plenty and plenty of examples. Fulham's setting, on the other hand, is lovely - in a park by the Thames.
There's no need to. While the American sports fan is sometimes rowdy, one basically doesnt have to fear for his life simply for wearing the opposing teams colors. There just isnt the sort of mob mentality you see in England and Scotland. Sure, there are isolated incidents all the time, but there has never been an episode in American sports where 100's of fans from one team squared off in the parking lot after the game against 100's from the other team. and you would never see an entire section of the stadium cordoned off by Police during the game to protect people from violence It's strictly a European thing and one that, quite frankly, I dont understand at all. Especially since the English, in particular, view themselves as a higher class of people than us Yanks hahaha And this isnt directed at anyone in particular, but after that incident in Spain, I dont want to ever hear another European make fun of America or say we are a country of racists or bigots. You would NEVER see a 50 thousand people at Yankee Stadium in NY chant racist slurs in unison at the players on the field.
Strictly European? Nope, it happens in most places where there are large numbers of visiting fans at most games on a week by week basis, i.e. most of the world bar the U.S. Plenty of racists and bigots everywhere, unfortuantely. At least you talk sense in this bit.
Having participated personally in one such episode myself in my youth, I can safely disagree with this statement! They are/were much more likely to occur at lower levels, i.e. high (secondary) schools because of their proximity. While emotions run high in professional sports, town rivalries can be deeper & cause more problems.
I wouldn't call Yankee Stadium in the South Bronx a high-rent district, but it's in a mostly commercial area and there is a large police presence before & after games to discourage problems. Most US stadiums are newer and many have been built in suburban areas or are surrounded by parking lots, which reduces urban problems. I'm not sure that we are civil to each other at sporting events, but the ushers (stewards) in sport coats or polo shirts are usually supplemented by a security contingent in wind-breakers backed up by uniformed police. This three-level structure is usually effective. Proactive response results in ejection of loudmouths & the heavily intoxicated before trouble begins. "Away" supporters usually consist of those who live in the home city but may have grown up in the away locale. Due to the distances and the fact that most games are broadcast, there isn't much travelling.
1970 - 1989 Madison Square Garden Anyone not wearing Ranger blue was liable for a punchup, especially if your colors were orange or red. Everyone knew about it, and suckurity would only take away the jersey offender after he got a few punches in. Everyone was on the same team back then (Rangers fans and security people at Rangers games). Come 1990 it all changes for the worse.
So, you've never been to a Rangers - Icelanders game at the Nassau Mausileum during the 70's and 80's ??? Beleive it or not, we did have a hooligan element at NHL games at this time. I dunno if this happened elsewhere in the NHL, but it certainly did happen here in Long Island, NYC, Jersey, and Philly.
I would agree with NYRMetros that New York traditionally had more than its share of problems between rivals, because most cities only had one team in any given sport or league since the 1950s. I have never attended any Islanders games, but have attended Rangers, Devils & (Philadelphia) Flyers ganes where I would not want to have been identified with the opposition, especially in the upper decks. However, the violence is sporadic & not organized, then quickly squelched. For a few years, NJ Devils would not sell single-game tickets to Rangers fans, to limit them or force them to buy a 6-game plan!
I was just speaking to my mother who used to attend many Yankees - BKLYN Dodgers World Series games at Yankee Stadium. She said she distinctly remembers the crowd being segregated, with Yankees fans on 1 side of the stadium, and Dodgers on the other side. I don't know how true this is, after all my mother was maybe 5 - 13 then, but tis what che claims. I will try to look this up if possible, but that will be a real challenge to find this out.
Remember that those pre-1958 games were played in an era when the crowds were mostly men who wore suits, ties & hats (not caps). I do recall in the early 1960s that I saw little if any identifiable suppport for visiting teams. With the advent of casual attire & the marketing of sports merchandising, you can buy caps & shirts of opposing teams, but I still wouldn't wear my Giant's attire to the old Vet in Philly!
The germans and the spanish aren't that bad in general. In the Netherlands everyone who wants to travel to away matches needs to be registered at his or her club. They give you a personal card (with picture on it) with which you can buy tickets at vending machines. Every ticket purchase is electronically registered that way. You can't get tickets for any other section than the one you're supposed to be in and they check to see if you actually have an 'away card' at entering the away section. Usually they check for ID as well. Furthermore you are generally obliged to travel with organized transport which takes you straight to the away end. Away fans are not allowed into the town they visit and are restricted to a small segregated area around the away end when they arrive. There is a one year stadium ban penalty for travelling by your own means. Although usually police will either arrest you or escort you out of town, depending on the group you are with and the risk the police perceive. The system aims to prevent hooligans from visiting matches (at least to get into the stadium) and especially getting tickets for sections that you're not supposed to be in. It is still possible to get into the wrong section if you make a deal with home team fans.... but in general police on the scene have little trouble identifying potential troublemakers. Especially because every team has it's own police task force that personally knows the (potential) troublemakers. It's a quite effective system. The hooligan element has shifted most of it's activities to visiting rival team matches when their own team isn't playing, other event venues (mostly raves) or quick saturday night visits the day before the match. So much for the British fair fight myth I guess. In the Netherlands attacking scarvers is looked down upon... without a doubt it happens sometimes, but definitely not by the usual mob. It's mostly the way small club followings try to stand up against the bigger teams following. My first hand experiences have been very, very different. Must be a British thing I don't think you'd EVER see this in Europe as well, actually. That kind of thing is quite rare (believe it or not) and really never happens in the kind of numbers you just said. Trust me. We save our energy for a good old fashion lynching after the game
Much as I can see the reasoning behind something like that, speaking as a fan who doesn't live near the club they support, that would effectively end any trips I'd make to away games, many of which I'd go to because of their locality. Would someone who lives in (or near) the town in which the away game is being held have to go to the home ground to get onto the transport, or would they have stop offs on the way to pick up more?
the system isn't strictly applied the same to all matches. I've been to three games in Holland, and at Ajax I did need a fancard. At AZ Alkmaar there were no checks of any kind at all, and at NEC Nijmegen they did a passport check before letting us buy tickets. A friend of mind went to PSV v Roosendal the other day and got in there without any checks. I can understand it for games where there's a risk of trouble, but it's overkill for a lot of others. It's pretty sad when a team like NEC Nijmegen, who get about 14,000 for home games, can only muster about 200 fans for a match at Ajax, mainly because of restrictions.
Sure, there are. There are 1000s of Cubs, Red Sox, and Yankee fans at every road game for those teams. All the major NFL teams get plenty of road fans. The Lakers have purple & gold adherents wherever they play. Generally, these aren't people who travelled far to the game. They are local supporters of the road team. But they go, in large numbers.