Austin Mentioned as a possible Expansion City In NASL.

Discussion in 'Austin Aztex' started by eclipse02, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. Parrothead FC

    Parrothead FC Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    NASL is unstable, unbalanced, has ambitions that are self-destructive, and they don't get along with MLS. It's much better to be a cooperative part of the pyramid, especially as a small-market team, so USL-Pro is the way to go.
     
  2. EPJr

    EPJr Member+

    Mar 21, 2009
    Richmond VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we can put the stability canard to rest by now, can't we? That was probably apt early on, but they haven't lost a team since Puerto Rico (who was going down the tubes anyway) and their teams appear stable. How are they unstable?

    Unbalanced? They have 10 teams now. May have 13 next year, but may have 12. How are they unbalanced?

    What are these self-destructive ambitions, exactly? Where have they said, "We're going to go head-to-head with MLS and try to be a major league?" Because unless they're doing that, they're just being a second division league. Not self-destructive.

    Peterson probably doesn't get along with Garber, but Peterson is transitory. You'd be silly to have an antagonistic relationship with MLS, and in any case, USL and MLS weren't exactly buddies from about 2000-2010.

    A "cooperative part of the pyramid?" What does that even mean, and what does it mean for a single team?

    If Austin wants to lose a bunch of money, they'll go USL Pro. If they want to lose even more than that, they'll go to the NASL.

    Or maybe they'll be the flagship franchise of the USAFL or whatever other vaporware league is trying to institute pro/rel as a mission critical component.
     
    brentgoulet and Blando13 repped this.
  4. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. Blando13

    Blando13 Member+

    Dec 4, 2013
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Looks like the chose to only loose a moderate (depending on your own current economical status ... could be significant or "a drop in the bucket") amount of money ... as opposed to more than that!
     
  6. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    476409910825984000 is not a valid tweet id
     
  7. Blando13

    Blando13 Member+

    Dec 4, 2013
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kenn ... this changes the "No USL PDL teams have moved up to USL Pro" mantra you've been saying ... never disagreed so it's not said to be confrontational, just needs updated now!
     
  8. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have not said that. You're wrong.

    Dayton did it. Three years ago.

    It has been done - but rarely.

    Please check and see what I have written on this.

    No NPSL teams that I am aware of have become professional teams. Very few PDL teams have, but it has been done (Dayton, Calgary, Cincinnati come to mind).

    Please. I know what I say.
     
  9. Blando13

    Blando13 Member+

    Dec 4, 2013
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair enough ... Just know you like to let people know that it's not some forgone conclusion that if you're a good PDL team you'll be moving up to PRO.

    Thanks for correcting me!
     
  10. EPJr

    EPJr Member+

    Mar 21, 2009
    Richmond VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    ha ha
    you are right
    I am on EDT
    so it is 1:00 pm here
     
  11. Orlando Rays

    Orlando Rays We're not gonna let the elevator break us down
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. evan eleven

    evan eleven Member

    Jun 4, 2009
    California
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

    it seems NASL Commissioner Peterson is failing this examination...
     
  13. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It never has been.

    People here routinely see someone drawing 1,000 to a game and pronounce them fit for the pro ranks. I'm surprised we haven't heard more chatter about Albuquerque yet.
     
  14. Orlando Rays

    Orlando Rays We're not gonna let the elevator break us down
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The thing is, Austin has a past in pro. They did well in 2009 (2,974) and 2010 (3,733) in D-II. If they can repeat that success, they will do quite well in USL Pro.
     
  15. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So well that....well, you ended up with them.
     
  16. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Glad y'all were that enthused about having a league rivalry. But it really makes the most sense economically for the team. They don't have a stadium yet, and with Dallas, Oklahoma City and Tulsa in the USLPRO next year, it's just more financially sensible for the Aztex to go that route.
     
  17. EPJr

    EPJr Member+

    Mar 21, 2009
    Richmond VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    so Dallas has decided to field a "B" Team?
    They have been a bit coy about talking about it
     
  18. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I heard plenty of comments toward the start of this year that they were going to do it, but then apparently they decided they weren't quite ready. I can't recall now where I saw all the talk of Dallas being about to, but if they were that close at the start of this season, then I fully expect them to go next year. But maybe I have the cart before the horse, and I'm thinking that there's no way the Aztex would go pro if they weren't certain of at least one of Dallas and Houston having a USLPRO team next year.
     
  19. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, they've talked about it.

    First it was (erroneously) reported that they would do it this year.
    Then Clavijo said outright they weren't going to.

    They just haven't talked about it since then because it's not a real high priority.
     
  20. Parrothead FC

    Parrothead FC Member

    Jun 29, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the Cosmos makes them unstable due to the imbalance of talent and money that they create. Also, the league's poor relationship with MLS is something that cannot stand for long, and it will be NASL that suffers, not MLS.

    Cosmos. The imbalance is in terms of talent and money, not in terms of the number of teams. I should have been clearer.

    It's extremely self-destructive for a second division league to try to be something other than that when there is already a first division league. If you think it's right for them to try to be a parallel major league, then we just have a fundamental difference of opinion.

    Yes, extremely. NASL is a silly league.

    Being the best second division you can be and not having grand ambitions of being a second MLS, obviously.

    So you're against the NASL on financial grounds, but not on the other grounds?
     
  21. TwoMeters

    TwoMeters Member

    Jan 27, 2008
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd be interested to know more about what you mean here, if you weren't being facetious or sarcastic. Are you saying it's not possible for any team to make money in either league? Or are you doubting this organization's (or market's) ability in particular?
     
  22. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am saying almost everybody has traditionally lost money at this. And that if you spend even more, you will lose even more.

    Take Austin's PDL business model - not paying players, few road trips, not a big staff - and add a whole bunch of expense and maybe add a bit more revenue. But not a ton more.

    The history of teams that have gone from amateur to pro is not good.

    It is pretty inevitable Austin will lose money. Not because of the Austin market or their wherewithal, but because almost everybody loses money, at least initially. And you would lose more in the NASL, where your expenses are higher than in USL Pro.

    That's what I meant.

    I like Austin, but it's not like it was 20 years ago that Phil Rawlins thought to himself, "You know, I don't see a way forward here." It was four years ago.

    And they went USL Pro and not NASL. We have no way of knowing all of their reasons, but I am going to guess finances (both in their loss tolerance and their overall capitalization) played a part.
     
    Blando13 repped this.
  23. TwoMeters

    TwoMeters Member

    Jan 27, 2008
    Austin, TX
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see, thanks for the clarification.

    But I have to take issue with this:
    That whole point hinges on what "a way forward here" means. What he told us was that they were never interested in getting to MLS. Until the morning after he fled to Florida, that is, and then we heard that had been the one & only goal all along. So if his "way forward" was MLS or bust, then even I can't begrudge that was a good move (i.e., I doubt he could have gotten an MLS team in Austin as quickly as he did in Orlando).

    But all of that is completely beside the point of whether a division 2 or 3 pro club can thrive well enough here to get in the black. That could surely also be considered "a way forward", no? And the two seasons Rawlins had a pro team (USL-1) here isn't much to judge that on. I don't know the finances or their plans or prospects or internal challenges, but the product on the field and the attendance figures were good and improving.
     
  24. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I understand there are hard feelings about anything Rawlins said and what you were all led to believe.

    If he was lying when he said he wanted to keep the Aztex in Austin, but was unable to "broaden the investment base" to make that viable in Austin, then, okay. But that's what he said when the move was announced.

    His statements about the move (again, take them or leave them, but you folks obviously have reason to disbelieve them, though you're not neutral on it) were that he didn't see the franchise as being viable in Austin after drawing 3,733 a game announced in 2010 and 2,974 a game announced in 2009 and seeing less-than-stellar opportunities for growth. You can say that wasn't enough to judge, but neither you nor I was writing checks and the level of patience of the people who are doesn't always have to match ours.
     
  25. BigOlTex

    BigOlTex New Member

    Aug 7, 2014
    Dallas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Couldn't agree more. San Antonio versus us would be a great and intense rivalry in the NASL. Hope San Antonio stays though and hope we make the bump up
     

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