Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: August Edition of Ursuline 100 No problem, as I am just a fan with an opinion and am not entitled to any specific deference. As for the Donovan analogy, Landon, unlike Salwyer didn't have trouble getting playing time with the Bayern Reserves. A better analogy for you would be Twellman, who at times couldn't even get time with the exact same reserve team that Salyer is with -- the 1860 reserves.
Just a bit more info that might be relevant... Name, Age in 2006, (DOB) in order of birth by position: Goalkeepers: Kasey Keller - 36 (11/69) Brad Friedel - 35 (5/71) Zach Thornton - 32 (10/73) Kevin Hartman - 32 (5/74) Joe Cannon - 31 (1/75) Matt Jordan - 30 (10/75) Tim Howard - 27 (3/79) Nick Rimando - 27 (6/79) Adin Brown - 27 (5/78) Defenders: Tony Sanneh - 35 (6/71) Greg Vanney - 32 (6/74) Greg Berhalter - 32 (8/73) Eddie Pope - 32 (12/73) Frankie Hejduk - 31 (8/74) CJ Brown - 31 (6/75) Steve Jolley - 30 (10/75) Mike Petke - 30 (1/76) Wade Barrett - 30 (6/76) Jimmy Conrad - 29 (2/77) Ramiro Corrales - 29 (3/77) Ryan Suarez - 29 (7/77) Chad McCarty - 28 (10/77) Steve Cherundolo - 27 (2/79) Nick Garcia - 27 (4/79) Carlos Bocanegrea - 27 (5/79) Jim Curtin - 27 (6/79) Rusty Pierce - 26 (7/79) Corey Gibbs - 26 (1/80) Danny Califf - 26 (3/80) Phil Sayler - 25 (10/81) Nelson Akwari - 24 (2/82) "Gooch" Onyewu - 24 (5/82) Alex Yi - 24 (2/82) Midfielders: Chris Armas - 33 (8/72) Brian Massionneuve - 33 (6/73) Claudio Reyna - 32 (7/73) Eddie Lewis - 32 (5/74) Steve Ralston - 32 (6/74) Chris Klein - 30 (1/76) Pablo Mastroeni - 29 (8/76) Richard Mulrooney - 29 (11/76) Ben Olsen - 29 (5/77) John O'Brien - 28 (8/77) Dema Kovalenko - 28 (8/77) Peter Vagenas - 28 (2/78) Sasha Victorine - 28 (2/78) Brian West - 28 (6/78) Francisco Gomez - 27 (1/79) John Thorrington - 26 (10/79) Kyle Martino - 25 (2/81) Kelly Gray - 25 (4/81) Brad Davis - 24 (11/81) DaMarcus Beasley - 24 (5/82) Bobby Convey - 23 (5/83) Kyle Beckerman - 22 (2/84) Justin Mapp - 21 (10/84) Forwards: Joe Max-Moore - 35 (2/71) Brian McBride - 34 (6/72) Ante Razov - 32 (3/74) Jovan Kirovski - 30 (3/76) Jeff Cunningham - 29 (8/76) Clint Mathis - 29 (11/76) Josh Wolff - 29 (2/77) Taylor Twellman - 26 (2/80) Chris Carrieri - 26 (4/80) Edson Buddle - 25 (5/81) Conor Casey - 25 (7/81) Landon Donovan - 24 (3/82) Alecko Eskandarian - 24 (7/82) Devin Barclay - 23 (3/83) Eddie Johnson - 22 (3/84) Santino Quaranta - 21 (10/84) Freddy Adu - 17 (6/89)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: August Edition of Ursuline 100 Twellmen led the 1860 reserves in scoring his first year there. IIRC, Donovan said he couldn't even get playing time with the Leverkusen reserves. And Salyer plays for Werder Bremen. Cheers, Tex
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: August Edition of Ursuline 100 OK, so we are done being nice. First, Twellman, rarely got off the bench in his second year with 1860. In the first year, Twellman scored some goals but leading scorer? According to http://www.kicker.de/content/saison...son=2000/01&spieltag=3&spielpaarung=&turnier= some guy named Fuchs was tied for third in that regional league, without Twellman on the list. Or do I have the year wrong? Second, my recollection is Donovan played some for the Bayer Reserves, regardless of his now recollection. Third, my bad on Salyer's club. Though not much difference in quality between Bremen and 1860, pretty much mid-table stuff.
September version coming soon - I'm grateful for all the feedback and welcome any more you might have in the next week. For September I'll go with the same format, but it will probably be harder for a non-pro to get ranked. I'll an expanded "players to watch" list for college and amateur players. Keep in mind that that list especially will be based on a lot of your reports.
I would think Petke might drop like a stone in his placement given his miserable summer... ...though maybe a couple of lousy months shouldn't be held against someone too strongly.
As a displaced Galaxy fan, I get to watch the E'Quakes a lot and with a pretty objective eye. I have to say that ranking Ramiro Corrales higher than Barrett in the defenders list is pretty absurd. Barrett has made more progress than any other player on the Quakes in the past two seasons and is now on the verge of a Nats callup, I believe. Corrales is still trying to figure out where he fits. My take is that he is a d-mid all the way, unfortunately for him the Quakes already have one of our best there in Mulrooney, so he's most often been seen filling in for injured midfielders like Lagos and Russell. He has done an occasional turn at right back, but most often Jimmy Conrad plays there (a pedestrian player who has no business on these lists either, IMHO). If you like Corrales, fine, put him in with the midfielders. But I'm pretty sure he won't make that list either. Better to leave him out altogether until he settles somewhere and shows he's worthy. Also, and as a Galaxy fan I hate to say this, but you have Victorine and Califf way too high. Both have been major disappointments over the last year (including late last season) and are looking more and more like middling MLS pros rather than future Nats.
Thought folks would get a kick out of viewing this thread from August 2002. Interesting that Sanneh was viewed as such a cinch to be on the 2006 team even though he was already 31 at the time. He didn't even make it into qualifying. It is a useful reminder that time catches up to even a seemingly indestructible player. When planning for 2010, we have to be prepared for any over 32 player not to be there. If they do make it, then it is a bonus.
Repped Nice find! So it looks like our starting lineup for the Czech game was "ranked" as follows: ---------------------Keller (2)------------------- Dolo (5) ---Gooch (9)---Pope (2)---Lewis (4 @ AM) -----------------Mastroeni (3 @ DM)-------------- Convey (5 @ AM) --------------------Beasley (2 @ AM) --------------------Reyna (1 @ CM)----------------- ----------McBride (1) ----------Donovan (1 @ AM)-------- Interesting based on her list that we had our 1st, 2nd & 4th attacking/holding mids on the field at the same time but in three different positions (forward, LM, LB) It shall be interesting to see what happens between now and 2010. Dare I say the pool is much deeper than it was back in '02.
I think the interesting thing to look at in this list are the guys that have made the biggest leaps. Excluding players not on this list... it looks like Jimmy Conrad had done the most to move himself up the depth chart. It's pretty impressive, when you consider that he was 25 at the time, had been in the league for three years, and didn't even get his first US call-up until Jan 2005. He was #25 back in 2002, and would probably be in my top 5 right now, imho.
The funny thing is that, going to Rob's thread starter on Aug, 1, 02, there's more turnover among the attackers than among the defenders. And fogetahabout the GK's - the same faces there.
OK here we go....the August 2008 Urusline 100. Best 100 players in the USA now, by position, with an eye toward the 2008 World Cup. Once again, no age ceiling. Youth players receive consideration. If a player has retired from international football, I have taken them off the list and included them in the "retired" section. Meaning I think they would have made the top 100 if they had not retired from international football. Also, I am not including Rossi and other players who have chosen to play for other national teams. I am sure this will need some editing by others, but here goes. Goalkeepers (10) 1. Tim Howard 2. Brad Guzan 3. Marcus Hahnemahn 4. Matt Reis 5. Joe Cannon 6. W. Hesmer 7. Adin Brown 8. Jon Busch 9. T. Perkins 10. J. Conway Retired: Friedel (int'l), Keller (Seattle?)
Defenders (30) 1. Gooch Onyewu 2. Steve Cherundolo 3. Carlos Bocanegra 4. N. Subotic 5. Heath Pearce 6. Jay Demerit 7. Jonathan Spector 8. Michael Parkhurst 9. Jim Conrad 10. Chad Marshall 11. Frankie Hedjuk 12. Marvell Wynne 13. Danny Califf 14. Corey Gibbs 15. Frankie Simek 16. Mike Orozco 17. Clarence Goodson 18. Jonathan Bornstein 19. Drew Moor 20. Michael Harrington 21. Bobby Boswell 22. Eddie Robinson 23.Chris Albright 24. Nat Borchers 25. Hunter Freeman 26. Marc Burch 27. Jason Hernandez 28. Nate Sturgis 29. Nick Garcia 30. Sean Franklin
Ursuline distinuished between attacking midfielders and wingers and central holding and defensive midfielders......Since we have Bradley, I think it should just be the bucket midfielders and the outside midfielders. The outside Midfielders/Wingers 1. Landon Donovan (this is where Bob plays him, so this is where he goes on the depth chart) 2. Damarcus Beasley 3. Eddie Lewis 4. Sacha Kljestan (again where I think Bob plays him) 5. Bobby Convey 6. Robbie Rogers 7. Brad Davis 8. Stuart Holden(again where I think Bob plays him) 9. Colin Clark 10. Justin Mapp 11. Eddie Gaven 12. Jose Francisco Torres 13. Jeremiah White 14. Santino Quaranta 15. Arturo Alvarez The Bucket Midfielders (15) 1. Maurice Edu 2. Mike Bradley 3. Ricardo Clark 4. Benny Feilhaber 5. Pablo Mastroeni 6. Kyle Beckerman 7. Danny Szetela 8. Jeff Larentowicz 9. Brain Carroll 10. Dax McCarty 11. Ramiro Corrales 12. Ben Olsen 13. Clyde Simms 14. Bryan Arguez 15. Jesse Marsch?
Strikers (20) 1. Jozy Altidore 2. Clint Dempsey 3. Freddy Adu 4. Brian Ching 5. Kenny Cooper 6. Eddie Johnson 7. Taylor Twellman 8. Edson Buddle 9. Conor Casey 10. Chris Rolfe 11. Nate Jaqua 12. Robbie Findlay 13. Chad Barrett 14. Charlie Davies 15. Pat Noonan 16. Josh Wolff 17. Davy Arnaud 18. Ante Razov 19. Jeff Cunningham 20. Mike Magee Retired: McBride (int'l) 10 Wildcards (in no order) 1. Geoff Cameron 2. Steve Ralston (doesn't really fit BB MF types) 3. Sal Zizzo 4. Adam Cristman 5. Lee Nguyen 6. Sammy Ochoa 7. Justin Braun 8. Kamani Hill 9. Brad Evans 10. Gabe Ferrari
True.....I forgot to take out people that are going to retire this year....I put Marsch in his place....any other thoughts on who I might throw in their?
The bottom half of the Top 100 list is usually filled with long-shots, so one might leave a few spots for the recent U-17's and the U-20's - guys like Ellis McGloughlin at Hertha Berlin and Jared Jeffrey at Club Brugge. PS. A general comment - back in 2002 (and I guess the Top 100 idea had been operational for longer than that), you had a few top guys but little depth, so a lot of players could have emerged from the MLS and the youth ranks to be valuable contributors later on. The candidate list now is far more stretched with the top players legitimately being with some quality Euro clubs and others soon to join them. That makes the long shots much ... longer. There'd have to be a meteoric rise similar to Altidore's for some of the lower rated players to make a jump to the Top 30-35 and be in play for the 2014, let alone 2,010.
Looking back over the list, I agree regarding the difference between 2002 and the current list. Though I have to say that might be a little bit due to my ignorance of the really, really talented youth coming in. In other words, I am probably better taking off a player like Razov or Wolff and putting on some super talented young player in his place that has a ridiculous long shot chance at blowing up (like the PDL kid in Texas or Renken or the kid whose name begins with a G that I am forgetting).
Davies is about 5 spots too low....at the very least he needs to be ranked higher than the guys he beat out for U23 spots.
Edu also pulled off an out-of-nowhere rise: not called in for any youth US teams becomes #1 pick in MLS draft earns Rookie of the year gets capped in the off- season gets capped in a Qualifier this year heads over one of the most famous clubs around is now no lower than 3rd on our center mid depth chart (I agree with the #1 ranking here) Thank you college ball for keeping Edu in the system!