looks like Moukoko posted a pic of himself yesterday wearing the DFB jersey and stating that he'll be back soon. also looks like Neuer, Kovac and Alaba praised the Cottbus youngsters. With Neuer even praising Moser.
eh the worse he's missed was last season where he missed 10 league games, still played 28 games in the league, that's still a lot. In league since he brokethrough EPL 34, 38, 30, 37, 28 games out of 38. You cannot say that's a huge miss. Not sure how that's 2-3 months on average? 4 matches=1 months. And only 2 seasons went beyond 1 month. that's not a long term that's my point. Always find it weird how you ignore whole posts just because one little thing ticked you off and that becomes your whole focus.
I think its a worldwide thing at the moment There aren’t many young strikers emerge early. Moise Kean sort of dealt with competition and scored goals in limited playing time even with Juventus I think there is no particular update trend to develop strikers. Looks like teams like to play forwards with high level of technical ability and pressing, that’s the priority. Then scoring, physicality go second. Aerial ability is the least cared by managers nowadays (even if u have it , mostly as plan B) There is no such thing as false 9 anymore. Rodrigo, Mane, Firmino or Kruse were seen as a false 9 but once they have the hold up game n pressing, the ability to attack in tight space n in build-up then score goals ... that’s the priority of modern strikers Then u will see classic 9 become more n more obsolete. When Ibrahimovic, Cavani, Mandzukic, Lewandowski(who hasn’t proven much in big games), Diego Costa, Benzema, Giroud those step down... u will realise strikers are a different type form the next generation Strikers who can play half 9 n half 10 with pressing is the modern trend. And many strikers started playing AM or wingers , because they are required to have such skill set Man Utd are playing Martial up top now, City with Jesus and Liverpool with Firmino or Mane (even Origi was used he’s used as LW) The modern trend of half 9 half 10 strikers , is why false 9 is becoming more n more popular not only in Spain but u see that trend in EPL as well. They are not false 9, but their skill set are for closer to modern 9
The idea of “false 9” is actually obsolete It’s a very popular trend that top coaches like 9s to play like 10 They value hold up , build up n pressing . That’s the main focus N I have a feeling that’s why we cant produce top strikers anymore. Because we aren’t following that trend , or let’s say ... we don’t get what the coaches need and want The emphasis on pressing for the new generation of strikers is more than ever and we only think about how to develop a traditional 9 Mane, Jesus, Firmino, Mbappe, Martial are those strikers who will be for the next generation Sarri used Hazard as a striker and the result was great overall.
dude you were the one who obsessed about heading for years on these boards and even about height of players. For a long while all your focus was targetman strikers.That has been your issue with Tekin, Glatzel, Copado etc. I always stated that strikers should know how to head the ball, why eliminate a source of scoring? Even Arp and D.Otto have stated the need for them to improve their heading. You want these strikers to be as close as possible to complete striker. The allrounders strikers are the ones club care about most. Pressing, hold up play, build up play, dribbling etc these are all things players should do if they want to succeed more. It's not really a very recent thing either.
Kane missed 10 league matches and some CL / domestic cup games in between. Probably around 3 months overall Won’t say he is always healthy
who cares if he missed 10+ matches, he still played most of the season. EPL play 38 games (4 more than 1BL), they got FA Cup, League Cup, Community Shield and Europe on top of all of that. Their players from a lot of teams play 50+ games a season. Which is bonkers, they really need to axe the League Cup. does a player really need to play 50 games a year+ NT on top it? And then things like Club World Cup as well. that is a GOOD reason why no German striker will win the European Golden Shoe while playing in Germany when the league plays 4 less games than a lot of the top leagues who are at 38. although I would love to see a German striker win that Shoe in the near future. But for now focus is on German striker winning the 1BL top scorer.
But if u look at Firmino, Aguero,,Mane Mbappe, Jesus, Martial and co. (N to a certain extend Messi n Hazard when they played at 9) U realise coaches actually rate pressing n build up play a lot more higher than anything else. And u need high level of individual ability n tactical sense to Achieve Those are the strikers for top teams, that explains a lot Even u have certain aerial ability n physicality but if pressing isn’t good enough n not involving enough in build ups . U can’t make it at pro level That’s a nice thing to have but it’s not a factor when coaches choosing threat starting strikers, especially for the next gen of strikers When Lewandowski, Diego Costa, Benzema, Mandzukic,,Dzeko,,Cavani those gradually step out ... maybe u will see “false 9s” dominating the league and aerial ability isn’t coaches priority To produce the modern strikers u need players who actually play like half 10 n half 9, with pressing n some scoring. Firmino and Mane are some examples
When u say “false 9” , probably those are more like modern 9s And it’s not only happening in Spain but gradually in England as well. U see Rhian Brewster (who really is just 176cm Max) and Greenwood (180-181cm) are not big strikers anymore but will emerge because their style fit modern games n their coaches love it We shouldn’t think of producing #9 anymore I feel like many of our strikers in the past can’t press (it’s not just running) n doing build ups. Even Selke n Fullkrug had such issues, Timo Werner need to do a lot better in tight space for build -ups and scoring. It’s not False 9... if one can press well, build up n score under pressure or in tighter spaces . He is a modern 9 Half 9 half 10 n pressing. U can see Kane and Benzema are playing a lot deeper than they used to. Sometimes even more 10 than 9 nowadays When we are saying aerial ability is important , I do wonder how much the modern coaches really rate this... from some top coaches like Pep, Klopp, Tuchel, Sarri and co... maybe they just value other abilities waaaay more than aerial ability. Just way more
sure and that is why the guys who aren't as adept at those facets of the game will be lucky if in future they find a top level club where they are starters, although it's not like that now. the height thing is nothing new, you think most Brazilian strikers are tall? A lot of strikers around Europe are 170s. not sure why you seem to think striker=big guys? I never said anything of the sort. I'm always been the one who stated that shorter strikers interest me. Since they have to make up their lack of height through other means. I have never seen #9 as a specific type of striker. There are loads of different strikers, with different styles, they don't all play alike. even Germany a lot of those of the old era strikers that people always bring up were like 170s-180m only. Strikers was never big and tall and that's it. Even Klose was like 1.82m...... the real issue is that vast majority of strikers produced in Germany in recent times, are point blank not good enough. When from 90-97, you are lucky if you find 2 good striker per age group. A lot of it is like 1 and some like 94 and 97 seem to hover towards 0 relevant ones as of now. When Holer is best 94 strikers, yikes.Very very lacking players missing too much to really make it. Still root for them but it is what it is.
England for one seems like their focus might end up being on Rashford, Brewster, and Greenwood. for all the hype that Solanke received he seems very overrated player. And Abraham did well in Championship but got a ton of crap for the opening Chelsea game of the new season. LOL Marcus Rashford, Tammy Abraham and rarity of the Premier League home-grown striker in the past 20 years https://www.thenational.ae/sport/fo...e-grown-striker-in-the-past-20-years-1.897757 Unless we start to produce better strikers who have 1BL prospects for real, we could be next.
I was just trying to think in Pep, Klopp, Sarri, Bielsa, Emery, Tuchel or ten Hag mindset Some better coaches or more successful coaches in modern days Of coz it’s nice to have aerial ability but I wonder how much the modern coaches rate these abilities nowadays. Just maybe not so much And some of them even playing a 433, their wingers are not even wingers but more like strikers I feel like Volland is pretty close to a modern striker. And maybe Nmecha but I haven’t seen enough Ability to do pressing n build-up well is extremely valuable at club level especially. It’s not something new but it doesn’t happen only in Spain , nowadays it’s happening globally I remember Nagelsmann was saying David Otto has issues with his defensive game even as a striker, maybe that’s his pressing U need that at club level to secure a place then we can talk about NT football afterwards I always thought strikers in Germany lack physicality that makes them couldn’t achieve further, that’s not the truth now I realise. We also had big strikers who don’t pan out , but it’s more to do with strikers don’t have the necessary skills to start at club level : one versus one, pressing, build up and hold up game So we need to have another mindset: we need to have more technical n tactical strikers first, if they have nice physique that’s a bonus As I look back, I think strikers with the modern strikers skill aren’t many. Volland, Nmecha and Waldschmidt Not even Selke, Fullkrug, Serra (yet), Werner, Jojo Eggestein (yet) Malik Tillman was used as striker for Bayern U17 and first game this season with Bayern U19, he played as a “9” U can see clubs have changed a bit in that regards. Maybe when Moukoko, Gedikli, Adeyemi, Woltemade, Borkowski, Keke Topp, Mekoma, Wollschlager and Sieb mature in a few years, we will see more strikers who fit to the modern striker requirements
it really does show the issues with being a home grown striker from a top 4 league. Higher standards overall and more pressure and money to just buy from neighbors. it's why I don't get why so many strikers go to these clubs who barely integrated youth strikers. Clubs like Bayern, RB Leipzig, Frankfurt are issue clubs. Bayer has no II team but we are likely to be covered with Gedikli there. Koln fans who watched the opening game loss of Koln U17 1-0 to Bayer U17, said that Gedikli completely stood out in the match, pretty much from both teams. Although Koln's golden boy Wirtz is still injured, so maybe he could have outshined him. Wouldn't Gedikli basically be the 1st striker to get Bayer 1st team chances since 94 ruined by injuries Yesil? Damn that's like 10 years later...... will Makanda/Cakar get breakthrough at Frankfurt? All of the German strikers at Bayern from Arp to the bottom? Borkowski at Leipzig? Borkowski's chances are really that Nagelsmann overall cares more about Academy players than Hassenhuttl or Rangnick who only cared about results did. an interesting thing about Frankfurt is that they do have interesting prospects from U19 and lower levels but there is no integration, no trust from that club. Will they really end up promoting no one for real?
An issue with Tillman at striker is that it feels like he's playing there because there is no one else to really play there. But I'm not so sure that's his future position. Although it's not a negative to enhance his attacking prowess but when 01s are gone will he really play striker with 03s next season? Or will he even play striker throughout the whole of this season as well? as for Otto, it wasn't his defensive, he said that it was tactical issues but that once he gets the hang of it, he'll use him. He did use him in 3 games and praised him. I've watched all of Otto's games this season. He gets involved in all of it, pressing, build up, hold up, defending too, dribbling and unlucky not to score more. Still a lot of room to grow for sure but so far + dev, let's hope he continues to be used. Would like to see him get more starts. Kruger is another one who gets involved in a lot for his team even more since he's playing LW-CF. If he continues like he has would be surprising if he doesn't move to 1BL in Summer 2020. "I always thought strikers in Germany lack physicality that makes them couldn’t achieve further, that’s not the truth now I realise. We also had big strikers who don’t pan out , but it’s more to do with strikers don’t have the necessary skills to start at club level : one versus one, pressing, build up and hold up game So we need to have another mindset: we need to have more technical n tactical strikers first, if they have nice physique that’s a bonus." This is pretty much exactly the issue in Germany for years. Lacking skills and elements to really succeed. it's like dfb half-assed the training for strikers. you should still have a good physique but not excessive because otherwise you end up like what happened to Burkardt. Who is now more ready for pro football. But players will work on that aspect as they grow older too. Arp for one physically is no where near being fully done. It's just time based thing, so many players look up pics of them at 18-21 vs 24+ huge difference. have to admit the more time passes by the more I'm doubting if most of those big/targetman will pan out, not talking about Academy players the ones in pro level+RL. Huge amount of them seem like 2BL barely 1BL level. Too much holes in their game. Or if they make 1BL for real, either through promoted team or after years and years in lower level.
Well Bayern and RB Leipzig still provide great training, so if they can’t pan out in those clubs, I m pretty sure the better prospects like Hartmann and Borkowski will emerge somewhere And kids choose these clubs because of many reasons: scholarships, academic, atmosphere (Mainz, Hertha, Koln do well in that department), family ... all these. And the facilities from Bayern n Leipzig are improving so it can be a reason Cakar and Makanda have holes in their games. If coaches feel like they have more cons than pros they won’t use them. I have a feeling that both may have to move on to other clubs after this season , especially Cakar . Still decent talent but he isn’t a modern type player Frankfurt and Gladbach have failed to attract top prospects from their area. I think Bayern, Mainz, Koln and Dortmund took the best but anyway When I was saying youngster need to be ready to compete. With veterans and foreigners , with players who has more experience (good. Or bad) , that’s a learning process and inevitable stage. Arp and Werner did it because they are competitive, even their squads were bad (well Frankfurt nowadays?) , they managed to outplay older, more experienced veterans and starting at younger ages. Not only because their teams sucked, but also because they are elite talents. We need to produce more elite talents. We thought Otto, Burkardt or Kruger played well enough . But that’s mostly fans perspectives because they scored. Coaches can praise or encourage them as much as they like in front of media, but there’s always somethings fans can’t see: players tactical ability, pressing, off the ball movement and technical details
also good reason as to why Germany has been shit at dev African descent strikers compared to England, France, Belgium etc, because vast majority isn't skills or complete game, its physicality edge at youth levels and that's it.
Leipzig also shoves money down kids's throat to make them come at the clubs. And a ton of questionable/illegal things too, lol. eh, players can't improve if they don't play, you know. Even Elite talents need experience and time, it doesn't click after 1 season. Havertz breakthrough season was the last one......his 3rd as a pro.
playing time is everything that is the only way to get better. It's why so many countries talk about the need for 18-20 years old to get high level experience. Playing RL or EPL2 (even more shit than RL since it's a youth league). None of that will help players. why because then coaches will be like the jump from RL to 2BL is huge, the jump from RL to 1BL is GIGANTIC, LMAO. And they'll waste so much time just to get high level experience to dev better. its why going to Eredivisie is a good move since they dev players well. Just imagine Ache, jumped from the Dutch Academies to Eredivisie. Another 2-3 minor German players jumped from Eredivisie Academies to 1st teams. And none are top talents, nevermind Elite.
"We thought Otto, Burkardt or Kruger played well enough . But that’s mostly fans perspectives because they scored. Coaches can praise or encourage them as much as they like in front of media, but there’s always somethings fans can’t see: players tactical ability, pressing, off the ball movement and technical details." scored? Kruger is more of an assister than scorer since he's playing LW/Striker and if Schalke didn't rate him, they wouldn't have a buyback. His Schalke contract expired in 2017, they renewed by 1 year just to get that buyback for him before he left. No Kruger and Aue's best start since 2004 (15 years) ends up in losses. He needs to refine his dribbling and enhance his hold up and he'll become even more dangerous. Burkardt was always going to be integrated this season and he was't going to be starter since that is Mateta (before his injury). Still even with Mateta out for now he's not going to start initially who knows about later. One cannot deny that when he came on for dfb cup, he was a very + spark to a struggling attack. Reality is that he did well in 4/4 1BL games last season, he just did not have the physicality which was a huge issue for him last season. It's why he had those solo training to upgrade himself. Otto, 2 sub appearances while the team was down and 2 comebacks, 1 win and 1 draw. And the coach even stated that it was the subs used that changed those 2 games, including a comeback draw vs last season 1BL Stuttgart. Otto involved in build up play while his back was to goal which led to the 1st goal scored. Heidenheim have refused to take any player on loan for over 3 seasons but made an exception for Otto. The coach and whole management want to dev him. So far 3 games played and 3 performances that very + dev. none of the perspective about praising them about playing well is about scoring anyways even from fans. these 3 are pretty much embarking on their 1st full real pro seasons in this 2019-2020 season. They still have a long way to go but the playing time will do them good. You used to be like strikers don't really breakthrough until like 23/24 (although a lot breakthrough at 21-22) and now essentially criticizing games for 19-20 years olds? Did you even watch any of them play this season? none of these players are anywhere near Senior NT but they are very useful for this upcoming U21 cycle. Always said that U21 is perfect that by the time players are done in U21 it should be just around the corner where they really breakthrough pro levels for real. and Olympics should also be very good experience. I hope that we don't call up any older strikers, let youngsters play instead.
Yes elite talents need games to improve But first u need to be elite talents to start early. Like Havertz, Werner, Sane, Arp and co. Yes their squads weren’t good but they still managed to outplay the veterans and more experienced players Young players need to be ready for that, against veterans (good or bad) or foreign players, they have to stay competitive And we need to produce more Moukoko, Gedikli, Sane, Arp or Havertz... these players will make pro early. No doubt Because they are just way to outstanding to begin with, more pros than cons, so clubs start them early. Of coz team is shit but that’s not the entire point , they have too much talent not to play them Havertz’s first season , first match. I could already tell he’s an elite player
but even then I would never put down the importance of scoring in games. The more a player scores the more they will get chances/playing time including most important which is starting in matches. Plenty of examples of players who keep scoring as sub who later on get starts when the starter struggles. at the end of the day, it's all about results for these clubs. Dev players is nice and all but they still want players who contribute to the score as well. look at Burkardt if he can't score all season, will Mainz keep him around in 2020 or loan him out? If he was mostly a bench player getting dev they might still keep him around. But otherwise debatable..... Otto and Kruger should try to get as close as possible to 10+ goals in 2BL or at worse 10+ goals/assists. Kruger should easily get 10+ goals/assist in 2BL, after 2 games he's already at 3 goals/assists in 2 games. For now Otto is behind due to not starting any league games, 2 subs=1 goal, still 32 games to go for both players. why would 1BL clubs want players with like 4-5 goals for example? The impression I get about lyoha is that Funkel wanted him to have scored more like 10+ goals in 2BL, even though he got 10 goals/assist in 30 games played (with a lot of sub appearances), he only scored 4. Young players in 2BL to really attract attention from 1BL they gotta perform in 2BL. Serra vast majority of his goals were headers, so understandable that there was less concrete interest in him. but seriously if one looks up 2BL, it's not frequent to see young players scoring 10+ goals in that league. All the more reason why clubs would show interest if one did.
Well playing time is important for a player’s development when his skill level reaches a certain stage U can’t put me in and play 50 games a season n expect me to become Mbappe or Sancho A player need to be somewhat ready and elite in some areas Coaches calculate pros and cons. Elite talents because they bring more pros than cons; average talents can’t make the breakthrough easily because if they can’t press well or buildup well , maybe they bring a lot more cons than pros Moukoko will be a pro, starting early; Havertz, Sane, Arp and Werner are some others. Then they can talk about match practice improving their games. First u need to show great talent to start with. Let’s take Makanda as an example, of coz pro matches will make him improve. BUT why would a coach play him at pro level if he wasn’t even doing great at U19 ? U need to show talent early. Even Luca Netz and Gedikli will make it early too because talent is too obvious I remember Nagelsmann praised Otto but also said his pressing was a concern for his system. So even he scored, maybe fans don’t realise his shortages in pressing, in off the ball movement n build-ups So they didn’t play him. I rate him highly but I heard the Adidas scout Christopher Krauss said he needs more time to work on his game before he’s ready for 1BL I’m not criticising them. I m saying they weren’t ready for various reasons They scored a tons at youth level but at pro there are better scorers in their teams. It’s more than just scoring n assisting in that case, how to get ready to fit in to the system is essential
Strikers have a late development cycle nowadays. Maybe 22/23 in first team then their prime last longer nowadays But to play in first team directly (!), u need to show elite talent early. Like Werner, Havertz or Arp... maybe later Moukoko, Gedikli and Burkardt (this season?) If Moukoko can play well like he is : one v one, great pressing, Great off the ball and great scoring . Of coz Dortmund would leave a space for him or 1st team in 2 years , n even at youth team they won’t buy any striker because it’s only going to be Moukoko’s backup. Havertz, Moukoko or whoever like Werner or Sane, can deal with such competition easily even there are other options in the team. That makes them great We just need to produce these talents more , if we want teams to promote youngster to first team directly. Some might not be Havertz, Werner or Moukoko, it’s fine. But they might need to prove themselves in 2BL for 1-2 seasons then 1BL , it’s a longer route for non-elites The point is , we need to produce more elite talents like we did 10 years ago