Post-match: Atlanta United FC - San Jose Earthquakes (Saturday, 9/21) postgame thread [R]

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by Goodsport, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    Yeah, many of us were super pissed that David Accam didn’t get red carded for skating on Espinoza’s Achilles’ tendon but Espinoza just got the same punishment for basically the same type of foul. Difference being he had picked up a very dumb yellow card already.
     
  2. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #52 falvo, Sep 22, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
    I personally think the refs are subconsciously influenced and even intimidated by the league and favor what they feel are top teams. This is why certain calls and fouls are overlooked for some and called on others. First it was NY and LA and now it’s Seattle and Atlanta.
     
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  3. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    You're not allowed to touch Tom Brady.

     
  4. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    The announcers were saying so during the LAFC game. Not that they know anything
     
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  5. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My guess is that every sports league commissioner in this country would like to see a marquee match-up in their final(s). Now to suggest that they somehow influence the match officials to make sure this happens is just crazy talk.
     
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  6. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #56 falvo, Sep 22, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
    No its not. Pundits, owners GM's , coaches and players have been saying this in Europe for over 100 years. Entire news publications , radio and TV shows are devoted for this type of questionable officiating. Many refs were even bribed , banned and fined for that sort of corruption through the years.

    Of course referees are influenced or intimidated by big time players and teams. I’ve seen refs grace big time players for cursing in their face while others are shown direct red cards for using the same words. The way an official calls or approaches a certain game has to change a game. Maybe they may overlook or interpret a call for some players and teams differently than others. That has been going on for as long as the game has been played. Trying to prove it though, is another story.
     
  7. NedZ

    NedZ Member+

    May 19, 2001
    Los Gatos
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Espinoza's first yellow was entirely on him and was a flat out stupid and unnecessary move. If you break a rule and hand someone a knife, don't be surprised if they use it on you.

    It is the sequence of the second yellow which confuses me, but the refs here can explain it to me.

    Did the foul take place in the Atlanta penalty area?

    It looked like Espinoza hit the Atlanta players foot or ankle with his boot. I would understand if that were called as a foul, and if the ref thought so, he should have called the foul, given Atlanta a free kick, and thus ended the play. However, the ref did not do so.

    So either that was not a foul, or the ref made an error.

    The Atlanta player went down, but then kept playing the ball, and moved his legs around to block Espinoza's access to the ball (and Espinoza may have kicked the back of the Atlanta player's calf). Just as a player can be called for an indirect kick foul for dangerous play when he tries to head a ball by diving near another player's foot (thus endangering himself), shouldn't the ref have called a dangerous play foul here on the Atlanta player and thus ended the play?

    If so, then the ref made an error by not calling that foul. (If the players were in the penalty box at the time, I assume it would have been an indirect free kick for the Quakes, not a PK). However, the ref might shy away from making such a call because he didn't want to give the Quakes what he saw as an unfair advantage free kick in the area after not calling a foul for Espinoza's contact with the back of the Atlanta player's foot which brought him to the ground.

    If that were the ref's reasoning, then the ref's first error of not calling an initial foul leads him to not calling a dangerous play which he should have called, and thus a second error, each of which would have stopped play before Espinoza earned his second yellow card.

    If the ref thought that the initial contact with the Atlanta player could have been a foul, but played advantage after the player was on the ground to see if he could control the ball on the ground, it seems to me that the player failed to control the ball once he was struck in the back of the calf before Espinoza stepped on him. Therefore, if the advantage didn't materialize, wouldn't the play revert to the initial contact which brought the player down and give a free kick to Atlanta? And, in doing so, mean the play was dead before the yellow card ever occurred?

    (Note that I am not excusing Espinoza if he did stomp on the Atlanta player, and I assume VAR must have discussed that with Penso. I am just trying to understand if the ref allowed an escalation to the point of the yellow which should have been defused earlier).
     
  8. alexiskool1991

    alexiskool1991 Member+

    May 9, 2011
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    ^^ Ratings talk. Better to hype and hope for that than a potential RSL vs NE final
     
  9. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    We don't have to go to Europe or back 100 years. LA made the Super Bowl last year on a conveniently blown call.

    Maybe not every game is fixed, but some of them obviously are.
     
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  10. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Or in regards to MLS, at least since April 1996 when Alan Rothenberg, the outgoing president of US Soccer, referred to San Jose as "that rinky-dink town up north."

    He said that taught him a lesson to not make jokes; that come back to haunt you, He later said it was a rally-type trying to boost ticket sales for the Galaxy's 1996 home opener. The Clash had just sold out their opener the weekend before, and I was trying to play off the north-south rivalry.
     
  11. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    You can get carded for a violent act after a play is over.
     
  12. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    Bias, revenge and grand conspiracy theories might explain why we lost this game (not really though) but they don’t explain why we’ve been a small team for over 20 years now.

    We lost this game because Espinoza got a well deserved red and things went downhill from there.

    Matias has every right to be furious, he’s done a masterful job with what he’s been handed, but what he’s been handed hasn’t been enough. I credit our players and coaching for getting this far but we clearly need to add players. Danny isn’t the answer up top and at some point Wondo won’t be able to do it all. We have to build our own luck and win on skill and strength. Dominate the game and the attack (as this team has shown they can do) give the ref less chance to influence the game even though it seems so unlikely that these refs are actually corrupt and conspiring to gift these games to our opponents every week.
     
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  13. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Being a small team for that long of period, has to influence somebody's perception. Its inevitable. Of course a ref can be influenced to change or not call a foul. Its human nature.
     
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  14. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You need to read that book by the NBA ref who went to jail or else watch the film “Dirty Games”. Every sports businessman wants the top market teams in the championship because it really grows their league’s fan base. It appears many make sure their officials know the stakes.
     
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  15. mjlee22

    mjlee22 Quake & Landon fan

    Nov 24, 2003
    near Palo Alto, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Almeyda really practiced Bushido, he wouldn’t be blowing up on the sideline.

    His blowups are not winning us games. No excuses. He’s gotta change. Tata also was very unhappy with officiating his first year, I think he got ejected once.
     
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  16. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    If entire teams and players can be bribed for match fixing, its pretty naïve to believe referees can't. This has been going on since games were taking place at the Roman Colosseum.
     
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  17. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    By the way, to all of you that are furious at Penso you should really be pissed off at Espinoza. This isn’t the first time he’s got himself ejected early in a game. I went to the Cincinnati game at Avaya and he picked up 2 lame yellow cards by the 55th minute. I was so ticked off because the Quakes were playing beautifully flowing soccer and I knew they would have to spend the rest of the game trying to waste time. Espinoza earned both yellow cards that day just like he stupidly did against Atlanta. If the Quake’s players play dumb soccer they have to own it....
     
  18. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt, I say just go out and dominate the game and accept that this is indeed human nature. Do they blow calls, of course, sometimes they go your way, sometimes they go against you. I’d still rather rely on their on the field decision making than VAR and I don’t see the refs as the main problem here really, we need some better players.
     
  19. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I am. And the two things are not mutually exclusive.

    Espinoza had nothing to do with ejecting Wondo and Matias, for example.
     
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  20. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    Do we know what they were so upset about? It’s been suggested it was the Espinoza sending off that got Matias so worked up.
     
  21. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #71 falvo, Sep 22, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
    Oh of course. Better players will always win in the end. Not calling a pk or giving out unmerited red and yellow cards though for mid table clubs will definitely change games outcomes. That’s all on the referee and their calls can also change the course for an entire season.
     
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  22. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    for me, yesterday’s sending off was merited, things fell apart from there...I can’t put that on ref.
     
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  23. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    My son heard that Wondo was angry when Shea was grabbed by the neck and thrown into the side, no call.

    I wouldn't make excuses for the referee. Maybe just an off day, but his calls and no-calls affected the outcome, as NedZ detailed. Imagine if that Espi second yellow had instead been a PK for us.
     
  24. TyffaneeSue

    TyffaneeSue moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 15, 2003
    Upstairs
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    During the Portland-Loons game this afternoon, Ozzie screamed an obscenity at the AR, apparently upset about a throw-in call. Twice, and on the broadcast it sounded very loud. How many of OUR players would get tossed for doing that?
     
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  25. nivla

    nivla Member+

    Jan 17, 2003
    Milpitas
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You spend big, you get the calls. That's MLS (and probably any league in the world too). Has it ever changed?
    How many times Atlanta or any of the "top" teams' players just drop on the ground covering their faces and expecting the ref to call the fouls? Why? Because they know their teams will have some advantages.

    I am not saying it is right nor fair but it is expected from Day 1.
     
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