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Discussion in 'Cleveland' started by billy bright, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. billy bright

    billy bright New Member

    Dec 30, 2008
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Atleast the ownership has admitted it made a huge mistake. If your going to operate on a small budget, ur not going to draw any more fans. I doubt anybody will have enough cash to buy the team. They will never draw the fans. Cut the losses and go back to USL-2.
     
  2. Wolfff

    Wolfff New Member

    Jul 26, 2009
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It'd be cool if they dropped down to USL-2 and made it public....I'd buy stock in it that's for sure....A fan owned soccer team could do alright in Cleveland
     
  3. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Our attendance is actually a little bit better than it was last season. It's not good enough to survive, but it still is actually better. With an actual marketing budget, Cleveland could definitely support a USL1 or even MLS team.

    There are definitely people with cash who could be interested in buying the team. That's not the hard part. It's just convincing them them to buy the team. I'm cautiously optimistic the team will get sold.
     
  4. billy bright

    billy bright New Member

    Dec 30, 2008
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would actually consider buying a stake in the team, only if they moved to USL-2. In USL-2, most the costs of players salaries is reduced big time. Therefore, your overhead is reduced big time. But, I will never so it at USL-1. There is no viable stadium option to host USL-1. The city is too divided on east side vs. west side. So, the stadium has to be near I-77 and there is nothing that is suitable. So, going back down to USL-2 is the only way I get involved.

    Drew Carey said that he became part owner of seatlle instead of trying to put a team in Cleveland because he doesnt think it can survive. The Browns, Indians, and Cavs are rooted to deeply into our culture. He spent a great deal of research looking into it. As much as I would love to have an MLS team here, he is probabaly right. The Cavs would have to leave in order for it to have a chance.
     
  5. Wolfff

    Wolfff New Member

    Jul 26, 2009
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree completely with both the Fact that an MLS team couldn't survive and that we need to go back down to USL 2, especially if the team were to go public, which it should in my opinion.
     
  6. TheUltra

    TheUltra Member

    Mar 23, 2008
    2.4 Miles from home
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hopefully if ya pick up a new owner they'll put a little cash into the team for next season.

    As for the budget, I can't imagine your travel costs will go up now that portland and Vancouver are leaving the league. That pretty much makes USL a East/Central league, airfare would have to drop I'd imagine.

    I've never been to Krenzler but what was the rent situation like there? Also if USL wants more seats would temp stands be a possibility? Though the Pressbox bit would be tough to get around, unless Uncle Moneybags buys the team and "donates" one.
     
  7. clevelandstoker

    Aug 12, 2004
    Youngstown, OH
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Hopefully a private investor without connections to silly missionary objectives snatches up the team. A return to the second division wouldn't be bad, but I believe a properly run club - regardless of where it is located n the city - can be successful at the top flight.
     
  8. LordRobin

    LordRobin Member+

    Sep 1, 2006
    Akron, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just don't see how you get to 4,000 fans per game from the sub-1800 crowds they got last year. I just don't see it happening. To the Clevelander mentality, minor league is minor league. USL-1 isn't so much more exciting than USL-2 to more than double the demand for tickets. If that were possible, we'd be averaging closer to 3000 now, I would think.

    Maybe, maybe with an intense marketing campaign, including television, radio, and billboard advertising. But that's expensive, and even then, you're selling a minor league experience.

    I'm with the "move back to USL-2" crowd on this one, unless the team is sold to a rich investor who's cool with losing a good-sized chunk of change for at least 3-5 years.

    (Heh, just hit me. If we finish last and go back to USL-2, we'll have completed the entire promotion/relegation experience.)

    ------RM
     
  9. MLSinCleveland

    MLSinCleveland Member+

    Oct 12, 2006
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm with you on USL-2 being the only viable minor league in Cleveland, but I think the city's prior experience in big league soccer (MISL I and the pre-MLS NPSL) shows that an MLS team would work here. Here's how I see it:

    1,500 - acceptable in USL-2

    4,000 - acceptable in USL-1

    12,500 - acceptable in MLS

    we have the 1,500
    we have the additional 11,000 to make a go of MLS
    we don't have the additional 2,500 to make a go of USL-1

    I wonder if any of the buyers may be looking to pull a Portland/Vancouver/Montreal and buy City with an eye at the 20th spot in MLS.
     
  10. MLSinCleveland

    MLSinCleveland Member+

    Oct 12, 2006
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I seem to remember an enclosed press box being one of the legitimate non-negotiables for a USL-1 stadium.
     
  11. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd have to think that anyone who would buy the team would have the intentions of keeping them in USL1. It just wouldn't make sense to me for someone without the money to operate at USL1 would buy the team.

    The Crunch average anywhere from 3,600-8,200. I'd have to think that outdoor soccer could draw just as well. And again, I think anyone who would buy the team would have to have the money to properly advertise.
     
  12. Wolfff

    Wolfff New Member

    Jul 26, 2009
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure we could get another 11,000 and if we could where would we play anyway? the Browns Stadium? :p
    I'd be all for it minus having to pay 50+ dollars for a ticket verses $5, like for next Thursdays game
     
  13. LordRobin

    LordRobin Member+

    Sep 1, 2006
    Akron, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn't be so sure of that. First off, the Crunch were playing at the top level of their sport. Secondly (and more importantly), they had the memories of the Force to play off, eventually just changing their name.

    Finally, indoor soccer fans aren't necessarily outdoor soccer fans. Go to the indoor board and you'll see. Indoor fans often see the traditional game as boring.

    ------RM
     
  14. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Personlly, I just don't see how Cleveland (or NE Ohio for that matter) could support an MLS franchise. Do guys really think we could get 10,000 out for each match? I just don't see it.
     
  15. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS might be a stretch, but I think Cleveland could be a strong USL1 city. I don't think it would be unreasonable to get somewhere between 4k-6k for games.

    @Wolfff, I don't think we'll be playing at Browns Stadium unless a certain someone bought the team. But then again, the USL Sounders played a couple of seasons at Qwest and I don't think tickets were that expensive.
     
  16. LordRobin

    LordRobin Member+

    Sep 1, 2006
    Akron, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just out of idle curiosity, how friendly is Browns Stadium for soccer? I've never been there. Qwest has an intimate lower bowl with seats close to the field -- essentially it's built like a 25,000-seat SSS with a large upper deck placed on top. Is Browns Stadium like that or more like Giants Stadium, where the lower bowl is far too big for soccer?

    ------RM
     
  17. TheUltra

    TheUltra Member

    Mar 23, 2008
    2.4 Miles from home
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know they've had soccer games in Browns Stadium before, The dimensions fit a field rather well.
     
  18. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Browns Stadium is designed for international soccer. The field is the exact sime size as Qwest, but we have a better pitch.

    I've been to two games at Browns Stadium, Celtc vs. Boca back in '03 and then USA-Venezuela in 06. The lower bowl is about the exact same as Qwest. Soccer works very well there.
     
  19. City Dave

    City Dave Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Cleveland, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What in the world would the Cavs leaving have to do with an MLS franchise? There seasons barely overlap at all. I also am not a strong believer in the idea that teams from different sports compete with each other. I'm sure there is some effect, but there are far more important things. I mean, when the Browns left did it cause an increase in ticket sales to the Indians?

    No way. Buyers with a half million to spend for a USL team and buyers with the 50+ million that would be necessary for MLS are two completely different groups of people. Not to mention that MLS will require a stadium deal. The Wolsteins have given up on the MLS for now. And people with that kind of cash don't just generally pop out of the woodwork.

    And I'm not convinced that we have that 12k anyways.

    I hate this. If we were just going to yo-yo we should have never gone up. I'd rather ride the bottom of the league in USL1 for the next several years than have to turn tail and go back down to the USL2. And the worst thing is... those scum from Pittsburgh will have been proved right.


    Also, as far as the field size at Browns Stadium, soccer can be played there but, like many stadiums in the US, it's too small for a World Cup match.
     
  20. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    How big does a field have to be to host international soccer? I just wonder because browns stadium is a contender to host wc games when we get one and the website says this: "Field has been designed to accommodate international soccer as well, with dimensions of 69 yards by 114 yards."
     
  21. City Dave

    City Dave Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Cleveland, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, Browns Stadium cannot host World Cup Finals matches. Qualifiers, yes.

    From the thread about the 2018/22 World Cup bid:
    105m is nearly 115 yds and 68m is just over 74 yds. And that's just the playing area, notice the parts I bolded above. Unfortunately, if the US gets to host a World Cup Cleveland will not be a venue unless the owners want to shell out several million dollars for renovations that would definitely result in a reduction in capacity.

    In '94 FIFA gave the US a bunch of exemptions because they wanted the cup to be held here. That most likely won't happen again, especially considering that there are several venues in the US that already meet the larger size requirements without modification.

    Here's a comparison with MLS fields from a couple of years ago to see where Browns Stadium would fit in. These are in yards.

    ---------------
    Columbus Crew
    Stadium: Columbus Crew Stadium
    Field Dimensions/Pitch size: 115x75 yards
    http://columbus.crew.mlsnet.com/MLS/coc/stadium/

    LA Galaxy/Chivas USA
    Stadium: Home Depot Center
    Field Dimensions/Pitch size: 120x75 yards
    http://la.galaxy.mlsnet.com/MLS/lag/...ntent=teaminfo

    FC Dallas
    Pizza Hut Park
    Field Dimensions/Pitch Size: 117x74 yards
    http://fc.dallas.mlsnet.com/MLS/fcd/fans/fan_guide/

    Chicago Fire
    Stadium: Toyota Park
    Field Dimensions/Pitch Size: 120x75 yards
    http://www.suntimes.com/output/fire/cst-spt-fire11.html

    Colorado Rapids
    Stadium: INVESCO Field at Mile High
    Field Dimensions/Pitch size: 116x74 yards

    Red Bull New York
    Stadium: Giants Stadium
    Field Dimensions/Pitch Size: 106x70 yards

    New England Revolution
    Stadium: Gillette stadium
    Field Dimensions/Pitch size: 115x75 yards

    DC United
    Stadium: RFK
    Field Dimensions/Pitch size: 110x72 yards

    Houston Dynamo
    Stadium: Robertson Stadium
    Field Dimensions/Pitch size: 115x70 yards

    As you can see Browns Stadium can accommodate a FIFA regulation field, but it would be on the smaller side.

    From the laws:

    The length of the touch line must be greater than the length of the goal line.
    Length (touch line): minimum 90 m (100 yds)
    maximum 120 m (130 yds)
    Width (goal line): minimum 45 m (50 yds)
    maximum 90 m (100 yds)

    International Matches have more strict requirements, and Finals have a set size like I quoted above.
    Length: minimum 100 m (110 yds)
    maximum 110 m (120 yds)
    Width: minimum 64 m (70 yds)
    maximum 75 m (80 yds)

    Cleveland may not even meet this, but they've probably squeezed it in, or gotten away with it for the matches they hosted.
     
  22. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gotcha, I was confused by the dimension requirements
     
  23. billy bright

    billy bright New Member

    Dec 30, 2008
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One of the main reasons the indians sold out every game was because the Browns were not there. That has been said and proven over and over again. And yes, the different sports do compete against each other. Cleveland/Akron isnt that big. Only so much money to be spent. People have to choose, right now, it is the Browns and cavs. The indians might not draw 1 million next season.

    Also, Seattle has been very successful in attendance in large part ebcause the Sonics left and the fans have attached themselves to the new team. Drew Carey as mentioned that a few times.
     
  24. CCSUltra

    CCSUltra Member+

    Nov 18, 2008
    Cleveland
    Club:
    Hertha BSC Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    MLS COULD succeed in Cleveland. Would it be hard? It might be a little difficult, but it if marketed correctly, it would succeed. Seattle has done a tremendous job marketing the team. DC has done well in a city with MLB, NFL, NBA, and NHL. And DC has a terrible stadium.

    Cleveland/Akron is big enough to support MLB/NFL/NBA/MLS. We're one of the biggest media markets in the nation (#17 if I remember correctly). It's not the biggest market, but it can work.
     
  25. Jamooky

    Jamooky Member+

    Mar 24, 2006
    Cleveland, OH USA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just don't think there are enough soccer fans in NE Ohio to sustain 10,000+ a home game. I don't even think we could gernerate 8,000+. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
     

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