Arsenal vs Chelsea (EPL) 3 Jan 2018

Never make a rugby post. There's too much Stoke City here as it is.

 

There’s nothing more beautiful in sports than the All Blacks eschewing rhe kicking game and playing wirh the ball-in-hand, wirh speed, power and pace on the wings.


Even Wenger could learn something from paying wirh pace and power and the split second decision making it requires.

Ok maybe not the ball-in-hand though

 

.....or perhaps, (in my somewhat-feeble attempt to go further back in my knowledge of Arsenal history besides just the Invincibles) the Tony Adams or Steve Bould in waiting, both who obviously prospered under Arsene Wenger in route to our 2 EPL title/FA Cup doubles in 1997-98 and 2001-02.

 

The statistics suggest that the defensive problems are a matter of personnel rather than tactics. Over the last three seasons that Koscielny and Metersacker were both healthy enough to form regular partnership in the center of the defense (2013/14 to 2015/16) Arsenal allowed fewer goals than any other team in the league. They allowed 111 goals over the three seasons, only Chelsea at 112 goals allowed was close. You can train all you want, but a defense has to play together on a regular basis to be effective, especially against big teams.

So while I agree with DaPrince 84, that Pep has a better understanding of how wing backs should be used to help the midfielders, I'm going to reject the suggestion that the Arsene/Bould team don't know how to coach a defense. But this doesn't absolve Arsene of all responsibility. He's responsible for buying the defenders that are currently struggling.

For example, Mustafi may work as a replacement for Koscielny, but even if Kos were healthy, I don't think they would ever form an elite pairing, their games are to similar. When Kos first arrived he was making some of the same over commitment mistakes that Mustafi is making now. Eventually Kos learned what he could and couldn't commit to in the PL and during most of his learning process he had the big German to cover behind him. That's the kind of player (hopefully with a little better turn of pace) that Mustafi needs to be paired with.

 

I double checked and my numbers were off a little, but it doesn't change the overall point of my post. Arsenal actually allowed 113 goals over the three seasons I cited, but Chelsea allowed 121. The next best teams were United with 115 goals allowed and City with 116.

 

how good was the Arsenal attack those seasons tho?

I think we had to sit deep for Mert too.

We sit very high now for this current group.

It is definitely a personnel issue because Mustafi is a charlatan who should be sold and Holding and Chambers are too young to be trusted. But Wenger doesn't help them out at all.

 

I think people forget how badly we got destroyed in some games where Mertesacker and Koscielny played.

Arsenal defend very, very well when they have to defend. For all the talk about set piece defending in the Almunia era, we've defended set pieces quite well over the past five years. The problem is that we can't defend transitions at all, and you have to bring the back line up when passing around in the final third.

 

thats been the problem

and it all changed for Wenger when Mourinho came into the league and that was his innovation. He knew the game was won on transitions and Wenger never adjusted.

Shoot, United beat us this season because of transitions, or quick changes in possessions.

 

Arsenal were 4th, 3rd, and 4th in goals scored in the three seasons I cited.

Clearly Arsenal had to sit deep with Mert, but as documented by goals allowed they were the best in the premier league over the three years in question.

Yes, Kos and Mert did get destroyed in some games, but it doesn't change the fact that over a three year period, when both were healthy, they were the most consistent pairing in the EPL.

Arsenal's problems with transitions is largely down to two factors, give always in the defensive third and Xhaka's lack of quickness. These problems are generally attributable to personnel, not defensive tactics.

So for those on this thread who want to blame Arsene for his lack of defensive nous (I'm not sure that includes either of you), I would suggest, instead that the fault is with his evaluation of the players he brings into the club and puts on the field.

 

Not sure that this is fair. The Invincibles were transcendent in transition.

 

Fair. But edge cases matter when you're trying to win titles.

Only thing I would add to this is that players are frequently in weird positions when giving the ball away in attack, and that's led to a few counters that have led to goals or almost goals. And that is a tactical issue.

 

Man City aside, the very best teams have had both.

 

Mertesacker was so underrated. If he was an Italian they would have put up statues of him. Instead he plays for a team and in a country where the only comment on him is "lack of pace".

 

Weirdly he’s been injured most of our 3 at the back era which suits him most

Remember in 2009 when Utd pounded us in the cl with quick counters? We have never been able to defend them since 04

 

That game was the most devastating game I've ever watched. We had a real chance to get to the final, the crowd was louder than it's ever been, and 15 minutes later Gibbs had fallen over and Almunia did his thing and it was all over. What a deflating day.

 

Its very much fair

The Invincibles were great in transitioning to attack. We never talk about transitioning to defense except that Sol and Kolo were speed merchants and Vieira.

Teams were absolutely shook to commit bodies forward against us.

Mourinho took that template and made it the basis of his tactical approach and got even bigger, stronger, and faster players who can bring it forward on the ball. He also had his teams sit very deep and defend heavy before they broke out.

The 90s Premiership used to have crazy games and scorelines. Goals per game was always at least 2.5.

It dropped during those few years in the mid aughts to under 2.5.

Its back up now though because teams cannot defend, but Guardiola is gonna change things again.

15 minutes?

Didnt the first goal come in at like 2 minutes.

I have never seen a stadium deflated like that. I don't think I have ever been more deflated as an Arsenal fan because I crazily thought we had a chance.

 

Just looked it up. Park at 8 min and that mother********ing Ronaldo free kick at 11 min. God Almunia sucked

 

True story. Every word.

 

Let’s also remember that kolo was very average but quick

Sol Campbell is an underrated all time great

 

That's a bit of a stretch. The simple fact is that Arsenal aren't good enough. Can you name anyone other than Sanchez and Ozil that would walk into the starting lineup of any of the team's above them?