Argentine NT: News, Stats & Players [R]

Against Morocco I'd go with:

Andrada
Saravia-Pezzella-Kannemann-Tagliafico
Pereyra/Lanzini-Paredes-Lo Celso
Correa-Lautaro-Dybala

Key points:
*except Andrada and Saravia (cuz there isn't any other options) no more argentine league players that can only shit their pants
* SIMPLE 4-3-3, no more back 3 bullshit, just common sense
* No Mercado (finished) or Foyth/Lisandro Martínez (too raw) in the backline. We'll be playing away with a tougher opponent, no more stupid tryouts the copa is in 3 months!

 

I watched the game in it's entirety. Here are my thoughts: The 5-3-2 formation in the first half was a complete disaster. Why are we trying to attack with defensive wingers like Montiel and Tagliafico, only to be hit on counters? I hope Scaloni learned this, as I think he did because the formation quickly changed in the 2nd half to a 4-4-2 and then 4-2-4 as pressed harder.

Like I've said before, Paredes cannot be a 5 by himself. He needs help. I do like the guy in midfield as he can play a little defense, hold up the ball, and he can create from deep. I think he could partner well with a destroyer like Ascacibar or Battaglia to solidify the middle of the field.

Montiel was terrible. Poor touches and poor defense. I think this match solidified Saravia's spot at RB.

Mercado....goodbye. Why were you even playing?

Foyth needs a few more years.

Kannemann looks solid and experienced. He should start with Pazzella or Otamendi in Copa.

Lo Celso was one of our best players and I can't believe he didn't play in WC2018.

Messi was typical Messi. Good effort from him.

Lauturo missed a few good chances, but he also looked good. He is a solid back-up and I hope future star.

Pity Martinez has some nice crosses but there is no one even close to connecting with these. Need Icardi or some kind of poacher to connect with. Poor game from Pity and I don't care much for his style.

I have no idea why Pereyra is in the squad, nevermind why he gets playing time when his form has been so terrible in Watford. This should be De Paul's spot.

Matias Suarez was OK but we have many better options. Benedetto was horrible. Aguero has to replace these guys!

I would much rather see Dybala sub in for Lauturo and play as a #9, especially against a tired defense in the ~70th minute. This guy scored 19 goals at the age of 21 and 22 goals at the age of 23 for Juventus. Please let the guy be a striker!

Argentina DTs continue to make my head explode!!!!

One idea for a Copa line-up is a 4-2-2-2 or 4-1-2-1-2 diamond. We might have trouble defending wide with this. Saravia and Tagliafico have to use their speed to defend wide, and the CBs have height and strength to clear out the crosses. This could give us a solid CM to create when in possession and spring counter attacks forward when our 2 CDMs win the ball back. Paredes should play slightly in front of Ascacibar.

Musso
Saravia-Pazzella-Kannemann-Tagli
--------Ascacibar----Paredes
---Messi---------------------Lo Celso
Dybala/Aguero----------Icardi/Lauturo

 

Just a brief update on the Sub20s. The Sub 20’s last week lost to France 1-0 in a competitive match.


Today they trashed the Saudi’s 5-0.

 

Line ups for tomorrow.

Esteban Andrada; Gonzalo Montiel, Germán Pezzella, Walter Kannemann, Marcos Acuña, Roberto Pereyra, Leandro Paredes, Guido Rodríguez, Rodrigo De Paul, Paulo Dybala y Lautaro Martínez".

 

Tired of losing to the Germans and the French.

Benjamin Garre and Colidio scored against the Saudis.

 

I don’t think it is a big deal. I didn’t watch the game but it appears we outplayed them. We had some open opportunities and hit the post.

And we’ve got a great history v the French, so I don’t think you should be tired of losing to them since we really do not.

 

Well, that is true — we do have great history against them. I actually watched the 1978 World Cup game against them (2-1 for us).

2018 World Cup wounds are still open, I guess.

By the way, who is the #9 for our U20s? He missed a lot of chances.

 

That was Colidio. Gaich is another forward who missed a lot of chances during the qualifiers.

 

Catalonia just beat Venezuela 2-1.

I normally am an optimistic person, but it is getting depressing to see us having the same issues over and over again.

I know we all are suffering to see us win — but realistically, do you guys think we have a chance this Copa?

 

For me, my answer would depend on who Scaloni chooses in the final squad and what the team strategy/tactics/approach is in the final friendlies in June before the Copa starts. Right now, there are too many unknown factors.

I do think that we have the players that can win us the Copa but let's hope.

 

.....

I don’t understand why people get so worked up after a single game. Our young team a few months ago hung with Brasil until a last second goal beat us. There are some problems that need to be fixed but it is a young team that has worked with each other on a limited basis.

My only problem is Scaloni needs to stop experimenting and play the same team over again. And this is why I said Messi should not return. He comes for a game, gets a mysterious injury and leaves the team. Either retire for good, or return for good and stop playing one game and then returning back to Barcelona. He’s throwing the team out of rhythm.

 

-He was already dealing with that injury since Feb. so it's not a mystery. He looked off in most games during the Feb-March period and a groin injury is a bitch. No point in aggravating it more and he's going to see the physiotherapist on Tuesday rather than train with the rest of the Barca players who were not selected for the internationals.

-It looks to me that Scaloni is still experimenting by playing a back 3 vs Venezuela and now a reported back 4 vs Morocco so I don't agree with him throwing the team out of rhythm.

 

It was already discussed that he was going to be playing one game from these friendlies. And if he’s dealing with an injury, he needs to skip some matches for FCB. The league is practically won. I don’t understand why he continues to play if he’s not at 100%.

 

Its phantom injury, nothing more. Its same pattern in every friendly tour. He skipped the match against Singapore for similar reasoning. Scoring 5 goals against them proof nothing for someone like him. Remenber friendly against Arab few years ago? Messi literally walked throughout the game and never accelerate. He knows how to preserve his energy as he gets older, cant blame him.

He had 2 goals 2 assists in CL , scored twice and setup one against Sevilla and hit his 4th hattrick of this season not long ago. Yea, thats a sign of ongoing injury...

I believe he'll rest for at least 2-3 games in remaining league games. I believe 3 more wins and La liga is done.

 

There is no reason to accelerate as much in friendlies. It would be a different story if he only walked in important games.

Having goals and assists doesn't always mean that they are injured free 100%. Most players, especially someone like Messi who gets tackled a lot, are injured most of the time during the season. I'm sure they take pain relief or just play through the pain.

However, I agree with you and Supamario that he should rest in some La Liga games. But I think he'll just play and walk/jog 90% of the games like he has done recently for games before the Champions League.

 

It's not Messi throwing the team out of rhythm. It is Scaloni who is doing this. Playing 3-4-2-1 and 4-4-2 with players like Blanco, Suarez, Benedetto, Pity, and Mercado is screwing up the team a lot more than Messi is!

Benedetto = 14 matches and 2 goals for Boca in the Primera this year! He looked even worse against Venezuela.

 

There needs to be continuity with the team. As I said, Scaloni needs to play the same team over and over again. But Messi returning after a 9-month hiatus, and playing one game and returning back home is a major problem. People think Messi can return and voila, problem solved. No, Messi is a major component when he is on the pitch and that is a problem, it is also a major problem when he isn't on the pitch when he supposed to be.

Messi should've thrown on his big boy pants after the World Cup and decided what he wanted to do. None of this pussyfooting taking a hiatus and returning. Either retire for good or return right away. Now, with only a few months before the CA, he decides to return and plays for a single match?

 

Unless he publicly gives a reason why he took the hiatus, we can't be 100% certain what the plan or the idea was for the hiatus. It's plausible that the plan was to reduce the dependency on Messi. We used to complain that every coach used Messi as THE system rather than a part of a system. With the new players, maybe the idea was to have a system in place and not rely on Messi that much so when he came back, every player knew what they had to do and not depend on Messi that much (For example, I loved how Lo Celso kept running with the ball rather than just passing to Messi like some other players did). Maybe that was the plan agreed between Scaloni and Messi and a hiatus was the logical move if what I said was true. But as I said, it's all speculation and there could be other explanations.

 

This isn't new. We would say the same thing about JRR, it was "You stop Riquelme, you stop Argentina."

My point is that Messi is a big component of the team. These young players have not had any real experience playing alongside him. They have to find mannerisms and the right rhythm.

People always come out after a loss to complain. Scaloni has done some good. He's basically called up everybody that everybody wanted a year ago. Yet they will want him dead after a bad result. Nobody is excusing him for his blunders but not everything is based on the manager. The players need to step up as well. Perhaps, somebody like Paredes isn't as good as we thought. Not everything should fall on the manager's shoulders. The players need to take some responsibility as well.

But people would rather bitch and moan. We cannot simply think magic will happen overnight, especially with a team that has hardly ever played together. And whoever the manager is, Scaloni, Gallardo, Poch, Simeone, Papá Noel, Easter Bunny and whomever, people will still find a reason to complain after a negative result.

 

Which mean he basically just preserving energy cause he knows he could still win 3-4 thropies this year and he certainly wants to play in Copa but not in friendlies.

SM is right, he basically he should just skip the Venezuela match altogether cause it could have been a valuable 90 minutes for Dybala who finally found his goalscoring touch in NT last time he played. Instead... Scolani put Messi there just for the sake to have Messi on his team. Off course he wont bring his A game in match like this & simply contain playing at jogging pace.

Messi still run pass defenders, scored with his weaker foot, hit a perfect freekick & powerfull volley, what kind of injury that still allowed a player to do all those things... maybe a tiny scratch somewhere on this thigh...

 

Nothing against Boca, but their player always get to play major tournament for whatever reason.. Tevez (despite his awfull scoring record in NT) keeps returning for many years ,Palacio, Palermo , and now Benedatto....

Armani had been hit & miss in NT and he's bad at stopping penalty which makes his contribution even worst. There's big possibility of a shootout in Copa or conceiding penalties during the game. Giving away a penalty has been somewhat a tradition for us.

 

This is why I think Messi came back during the March friendlies so that during the Fall 2018 friendlies the other players can find their feet, show their worth and be comfortable in the international stage without Messi. Maybe the idea was that Messi would be integrated with the group in March so that the young players have the experience to play alongside him once they played some games in the national team. It's just unfortunate that Messi, with Di Maria, Otamendi and Pity, are dealing with injuries.

I think Scaloni has done a good job with calling the players that we wanted and trying out new players. The only problem I had with him was the back 3 vs Venezuela, but it seemed that he realized that the back 4 is better if the reported line up vs Morocco is true.

 

If I had a choice, I would have tried to find a system where Messi and Dybala can play together as I think Dybala is the third best Argentinian player behind Messi and Aguero imo. But it looks to me that in Scaloni's system, he prefers Messi over Dybala and Messi was one of the best attacking players on that night vs Venezuela even with the injury and not playing at his full A game.

Messi can do all those things that you mentioned in the last paragraph while nursing an injury. But in a game that had no consequence, you would want to not further damage that injury and not take risks. I think he wanted to integrate with the rest of the team rather than just stay at Barcelona for the whole friendlies.

There are multiple reports saying that he is nursing the injury.

He missed part of the training on Thursday.

And the fact that he is going to see the physiotherapist instead of training with the other Barca players this week. For me, it doesn't sound like a guy who's fit 100%.

 

Well, if its in fact a real injury then he really should rest in Barca next game since the second place is 10 points behind. If its a major injury, I highly doubt his medical team would allow him to play against Venezuela, let alone to play the whole 90+ minutes.

Messi actually came into 2016 Copa while still nursing an injury, he started from the bench in second game with only 20 minutes left and still got a hattrick.

I think its too late right now for Scolani to try having Dybala alongside Messi. After Masche's done, we havent found a new destroyer in midfield who can run tirelessly so I'd rather settle with 4-4-2 rather than having 3 defenders who'll get beaten easily against a pacey team. None of our midfields are showing enough mobility to cover the back 3.

 

Yep, I hope he rest in the next league game (other Barca fans are saying it too). Marca newspaper is saying that he is a doubt for the next league game. We'll see what happens. I think this injury is not a major one but could be a major one if not handled correctly.

I also agree that the 442/4231, for now, would best fit best the team. Keep it simple and I think that is Scaloni's philosophy from what I've seen of him. Let's see what happens vs Morocco.