The recent coronation of Boca had me thinking how inconsistent Latin American leagues are with respect to their league structure and format. Personally, I do not see why they just did not use either of the 2 most adopted tie breaking systems at the end of the regular season (goal differential or head-to-head results), rather than creating a 3 team tournament where the 3 teams still ended up with the same amount of points. However, this thread really isn't about conspiracy theories regarding TyC/Fox and their protectionism of Argentina's big five. My purpose for starting this thread is to clarify league structure and format, with emphasis on Metropolitano/Nacional. I know Metropolitano (BA and Greater BA ONLY) and Nacional (Everyone) were tournaments that were played between 1967 thru 1985. From my understanding is that Metropolitano was played in the first half of the year and then the top teams from Metropolitano would play in the Nacional tournament. Question 1. With the British heavily influencing the Argentine sporting culture, why didn't the pioneers of Argentine football adopt a European footballing calender where seasons start in the Fall and end the following year toward the start of summer? Question 2. How many times did the format change throughout the Met/Nac years? Question 3. What did the Metropolitano clubs, who did not advance into the Nacional tournament, do after the Metropolitano tournament? Question 4. The Nacional teams that were waiting for the Metropolitano tournament to end, what did they do in the time being? Was there a league for them?
The matter with the triangular is that while for good or bad it was written how it was supposed to be played many decades ago, part of the media said it wasn't serious and that it should be changed(yeah because changing things on the run is far more serious...), but yes the possibility of there being a triangular for a tie breaker was floating for over 1 month, but no one bothered to check what was marked by AFA as a triangular, instead they didn't seem to know until right before the triangular started... Regarding the Metropolitanos and Nacionales, in reality Metropolitanos were played all year long and Nacionales were parallel with the best of each region, the matter is that the Metropolitanos kept very much the same shape through the years and the Nacionales changed very much every year, probably because the amount of the other regional tournaments other than the Metropolitanos also very much changed every year. Also regarding the Metropolitanos, yes Buenos Aires and GBA, but also included the main 2 of La Plata, 4 from Rosario, the main 2 from Santa Fe, and at some point included the 4 main from Cordoba too(neither of those would count as being in the "metropolitan area"). By 1985 there was an "ultra-complex" Nacional played by 40 teams(There were no regional championships that year), used as a revamp for the 2 top divisions(The top 20 to the new First Division and the bottom 20 to the second Division, the birth of the "Nacional B"), which also included the adoption of the western european calendar, contrary to the pre-1967 era in which they used the calendar year for the season. Since 1985 to this day from the Third Division(Primera B Metropolitana/Torneo Argentino A) and below, it reamins branched, and why some clubs are in one branch or the other could be very well debated, in my opinion if there was to be a major change it should start there, rather than in the First Division, changing the format of the "triangular", which if anything would be a minor change, after all there was one after like 40 years. For about 2 or 3 years, it seems that there have been will to revert back from the Apertura/Clausura to have a single championship on the season, nowadays the First Division is the only one left with that, the others did have Apertura and Clausura too but it didn't last long because it didn't seem to have any purpose. And to answer your questions. 1- If by season you mean our fall and our sping, initially they did but ultimately when they revamped the 1st and 2nd division they saw it was more convinent to adopt to the western european calendar, probably because of the majority of the tranfers and player departures being held in the european off-season. 2- The metropolitanos didn't really change that much most of the time they were double-round robin, there being between 18 and 20 participants(giving the total of 38 matches), for some reason the last Metropolitan had 19. Nacionales very much changed because of the other regional tournaments. 3- The Metropolitano clubs that didn't advance well, couldn't do much other than keep playing the Metropolitano through the year, to attempt to qualify to the Nacional of the following year and to avoid relegation(When San Lorenzo and Racing got relegated they got relegated to the 2nd division of the Metropolitano, there were 4 divisions). 4- The other Nacional clubs well yes, the ones that didn't belong to the Metropolitano had their regional league, although these changed pretty much every year. In the meantime, Grondona seems to be angry about all the complaints because of the triangular and that they will try to find out a better tie breaking system if they need to use it again, however the main focus now is in the possibility of reverting back the old way and there being a single championship no more Apertura or Clausura. http://www.ole.clarin.com/notas/2008/12/24/futbollocal/01828377.html
I was aware that a similar situation had occurred a couple decades ago. I still just do not understand the mentality behind it. Was Metropolitano still played even after the top teams advances to the Nacional? I do not mean your fall and spring. I am referring to calender years. Your tournaments would span the calender year, where as the european seasons would start in one year and end the following year. If I am not mistaken, the AFA did not change that until the late 80s/eary 90s. But how could the GBE-base clubs continue to play Metropolitano if the top clubs advance to the Nacional tournament? I know there were instances where Boca, River, Racing won the Metropolitano and Nacional tournament in the same calender year. Did those clubs stay at a standstill while the Boca, Rivers, San Lorenzos played Metropolitano with the other teams from the provinces?
Me neither, i am not aware if there was any complaints or anything back then, at that time Vélez won their first title, got to see if Tigre would've won this time what would be the case although Tigre was the one pushing for the thing to be kept this way for now instead of changing it on the run. Probably there would've been no complaints if San Lorenzo would've won because they're seeing it that the draw was fixed in Boca's favor. Yes, they were parallel. Right, they changed the calendar usage in 1985, the Nacional that year finished in September, no Metropolitanos nor the other regionals were played, right away the season 85/86 started. Between 1931 and 1984 they used the year long calendar. It was complicated, because of schedule congestion and of course, those that played the Libertadores had it far worse, although back then the Libertadores there were fewer matches in a longer time span compared to what it is now. For example in 1984, Independiente won the Libertadores, but in the Nacional reached the quarter finals and in the Metropolitano finished 14th(out of 19), that year Ferro won the Nacional defeating River in the final and Argentinos Juniors won the Metropolitano.
perhaps I was misinformed, but I was under the impression that Metropolitano was played first and then Nacional. I was also under the impression that relegation was played parallel with the Nacional tournament. What is not clear to me is what would the mid tier clubs do throughout the Nacional tournament. 6-8 clubs from metropolitano would advance to the nacional. 2-4 clubs would fight relegation. what about the others? I do not think they had it far worse. A lot fewer matches and the champion had a direct bye right into the semifinals. The reigning champ had that privilege for more than 20 years.
Yes there were clubs that had nothing to play for... Although that more or less changed when they introduced the average, however once they introduced them these tournaments didn't last too long. I guess, maybe it depended on the club and how far they made it.
Ok... I can't explain why the reply got repeated that much. Anyway some sources indicate that there is no going back, or actually there is, starting in the season 2009/10 there will be no more Aperturas and Clausuras, back to the old way, so for now they'd concentrate in certain modifications on the rules in case of the need of tie breakers and such.
*bump* And again and again and again... Guess what will be in discussion between the clubs of first division again... Yes bringing back the long tournaments, either on 2011/12 or 2012/13. The difference now, the relegation averages would be brought into discussion too.