Argentina v Peru, WCQ, 10-5-2017

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by SupaMario, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. jaimito11

    jaimito11 Member

    Jul 11, 2016
    Club:
    CA Independiente
    Yep. But Ecuador is a better team and is also playing at home. I don't think they would consider a draw at home a good result, especially with nothing to lose, but who knows?

    By the way this is one of the few times where I'll be cheering for Brazil:laugh:
     
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  2. wangballer

    wangballer Member

    Oct 11, 2016
    I just don't fcking understand why can't Dybala can't be put on the right side of the 4-2-3-1. Sure its not his favoured position, but the mere quality of him is enough for Dybala to be a much better option than all the others. Its not like Argentina has a good natural winger there. Literally no conviction from the right side whether it was Di Maria or the other guy. At least with Dybala you know he is going to be taking defenders on
     
  3. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    What a terrible performance, and Messi once again choking on those free kicks. Even if Chile loses to Brazil, Paraguay will beat Venezuela in Asuncion which means that only a win sends us to the WC.

    A true test of the mettle of these players. Hope the lineup goes like this:

    Romero
    Mercado - Fazio - Otamendi
    Mascherano - Paredes
    Messi - Rigoni
    Dybala - Icardi
     
  4. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Brazil will not let anyone win at their home, but the fact is ,we must score and win no matter what. Just scores for once and I dont care if we park the bus afterward and play counter attack.

    We havent score in more than 360 minutes, excluding own goal.
     
  5. soccerr9

    soccerr9 Member+

    Jun 6, 2005
    You are right. Argentina have missed opportunities with Messi, Higuain, Aguero, Di Maria, Dybala, Icardi, and now with Benedetto, Papu, and Rigoni. Throw in Lavezzi and Tevez since both weren't super clinical in their Argentina history either.

    It seems like a combination of bad luck and an organization that has no continuity. Argentina are always chopping and changing. They have had to deal with 7 coaching changes in 10 years, new players seamlessly every call up, and some pretty awful fortune.

    As for this match, they played well and created chances. Poor luck and finishing cost them. With that said, with 25 minutes left and needing a goal, it's a travesty that Higuain is in Italy while Icardi and Dybala are on the bench. This isn't to blame Benedetto, Papu, or Rigoni but Sampaoli is asking too much of them. They have never played together and yet are expected to deal with immense pressure. How will they feel if Sampaoli drops all of them for the next match? What if Dybala and Icardi aren't ready to be saviors? You simply can't overhaul the attack every match and expect them to not only deal with an entire country putting pressure on them, but also be on the same page as each other and be clinical.
     
  6. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Failure in countless final & QF from each tournament since 1994 definetely add more and More preasure on Argentine players. Its not a rocket science. You could tell from their attitude and confidence when they play for the NT.

    The only time in recent years where these guys were all scoring was during Sabella's time. Other than that, they just struggled and had little confidence even when presented with easy chances.
     
  7. soccerr9

    soccerr9 Member+

    Jun 6, 2005
    A coach that can't fit in Dybala and Messi together because they are too similar is one that has limited ideas. To sub in Rigoni as the impact sub instead of Dybala is insane. Dybala might not be a big game player yet, but he simply has to play over Rigoni. The criticism that he doesn't play well with Messi is way overblown. That is BS. Dybala isn't as influential, but he still creates chances whenever he and Messi are on the field together. Plus, how are they supposed to learn to play together if they don't start together with any sort of continuity? Again, the players are put in a horrible position. They will again be put under immense pressure to win at all costs away to Ecuador. If they don't, the players will get killed and another coach will be fired. That is the problem with Argentina.

    With Colombia playing Peru, Chile v Brazil, my hope at this rate is that Argentina can manage to tie on the road with Chile losing. Imagine a situation where Chile, Argentina, and Peru end up even at 26 points with +1 GD? If Peru beats Colombia then Colombia would be the ones on 26 points. It's crazy how tight it is.
     
  8. soccerr9

    soccerr9 Member+

    Jun 6, 2005
    The pressure comes when we fans kill the players for losing finals. In that respect, the players simply have been unlucky. We need to accept that. Whether it was against Germany or Chile, Argentina have had f#$@#%#@ awful luck. They may even be cursed.

    However, how the organization reacts to each loss has cost Argentina a bit too especially now. They get so close to winning a WC or CA only to blow the whole thing up immediately afterwards. The coach is fired with the players criticized and dropped. Are there any doubts that if Argentina fail to qualify that Sampaoli won't get fired?

    What a rational organization should do is build off their prior success even if a championship isn't won. No, Argentina mess with something that has worked to a great extent only to make the situation so bad that they are now fighting to qualify with a team that has had 4 games to gel under a new coach. Good luck with that.
     
  9. wangballer

    wangballer Member

    Oct 11, 2016
    While its easy to piss on the players and all don't forget the root of the problem is the fact Bauza (l o l) was the coach in the first place. As much as we are frustrated by Benedetto he still has been miles better than that dude Pratto. With Benedetto he at least offers good movement.

    Its never good the play the "what if" game, but honestly if Icardi was the starting striker since copa 2016, Messi and co likely looking at their first championship and none of this mess.
     
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  10. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    we missed Cueva and Carrillo badly today
     
  11. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    No doubt about it, Bauza was the reason why we're in this situation. The preasure became immense when Sampa took over since we're in 5th position with only 4 games remaining and he only had 2 friendlies before that.

    Off course the roots of all this would be AFA itself. They didnt even pay Tata and not even pay the security! , hence we ended up with Bauza for the 3/4 of the qualifier. Its 2010 situation all over again. Need to win the very last game.
     
  12. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #187 Rattlehead, Oct 6, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
    Luck did play a huge role but Higuain misses in those 3 finals had nothing to do with luck. It has been same pattern and the only time he misses those chances would be in the final. The same with Aguero, he keep shooting to the sky and slip on the grass over and over but will hit the net and never goes down when playing for City. Confidence level is totally difference when these guys play for their clubs.

    It took Sabella only 2 games and we quickly took off and had a distinctive playing style throughout 2014 qualfier.
     
  13. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    We can talk strategy and tactics till we are blue in the face, we just need to score more goals than Ecuador on Tuesday. That’s, it.
     
  14. Progott

    Progott Member

    Nov 3, 2007
    What's up with that guys from the local league btw?
    Gomez, Benedetto, Gago, Rigoni (is that somekind of pasta or what?).
    I don't want to offend anyone, but the argentine is pretty shit. How can you play with guys from that league and leave Icardi, Dybala or Higuain on the bench. I'm sure Higuain would've scored against Peru.

    Dybala is the only player beside Messi who can create something. You just NEED Dybala and Messi on the pitch to be more unpredictable!
     
  15. afar

    afar Member+

    Apr 26, 2007
    Ecuador has lost against Brazil, Colombia, and Peru at home, and drawn against Paraguay.

    But conditioning will go a long way, playing at the thin air at 9000 ft, so Dybala and Icardi being rested should help.

    At this point, I think we will see Biglia no matter what.

    Keep the defensive back 4. Play Biglia, Paredes, and Enzo Perez in the mid.

    Front 3 of Messi, Dybala, and Icardi.

    Sampaoli needs to tell Messi to shoot more at goal. All of our players need to shoot more.

    Don't know what the mood is in the locker room, but Sampaoli says they are confident.
     
  16. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yea I like it more when Messi shoot and winning fouls, Dybala should do the same. Those aeiral crosses lead to nothing in last many games.

    When tou try to shoot and dribble, you'd win FK or even PK. The players just cant settle on one way of attacking , they've been trying to create something from the wing for eternity.

    Messi won few FK on his own and its in quite dangerous area. We dont even have anyone outside Messi and Masche who can make penetrating pass, and this team cant play short passing game either. If we just continue to pass the ball sideways over and over, expect another goaless game for us.
     
  17. RiverGaucho

    RiverGaucho Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Buenos Aires
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  18. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    At least there was some comedy, Gago comes in playing for Argentina in ages and three minutes later injures himself on this second touch on the ball. Maybe this is fate helping against Ecuador.
     
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  19. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Gomez plays in Serie A (he has for the last 7 years) and Rigoni is in Zenit (Russia).

    Gago, for as fragile as his bitch ass is, only played for 20 seconds, so your judgement of his game makes no sense.

    As for Benedetto... well, I think we can all agree and say he's not NT material. He should have never been called up in the first place, and most of us knew that. Higuain must've been laughing his ass off at all the haters these last few WCQ rounds. Maybe now his goal scoring ratio in the NT will be appreciated a little more.
     
  20. locoxriver

    locoxriver Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 22, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    And I insist.... el 9 era Alario lpm!!! :mad:
     
  21. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Aguero also has 30+ goals in NT, so he should start all the time too?. If pipita can solve the scoring problem, we wouldnt be in 5th place when Sampa came in. Higuain scored just once in this qualifier and you miss his contribution? If he could have scores today and in previous rounds , why didnt he score in first 12 qualifier matches?
     
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  22. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    People were asking for icardi not freaking bende
     
  23. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    So we are actually in a worst place since Sampaoli took over? Have yet to win in qualifiers under him.
     
  24. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #199 Rattlehead, Oct 6, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
    The problem is, we're already in 5th place when he took over. He only have two options, using similar squads as previous coach but with different tactic or... pick a new names but it will takes some time to gel. He choose the later and some players clearly not good enough for NT while the likes of Icardi and Dybala only played together with Messi for 1 and a half game. Its not easy to fix a sinking ship within few matches.



    Icardi almost scored 3 times in first half against Venezuela, 2 which were well saved by the GK. The equalizer also came from his preasure. In this case, you could say the player wasnt scoring because of bad luck. In comparison, Benedetto wasnt scoring against Peru because he's simply not good enough and that's it.

    I wonder if its actually Sampa's plan that here saved Dybala and Icardi for Ecuador's game? it could be.
     
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  25. HollywoodHayat

    HollywoodHayat Member+

    Feb 11, 2013
    Both Dybala & Icardi will not change much if Mascherano will be forced to turn into a playmaker because of the other jokes around him.

    This is crazy but I would drop both Banega & Biglia. Start a 4-3-1-2 with Paredes at DM, Enzo at RCM and DiMaria at LCM then have Messi as a #10 and Dybala/Icardi up front.

    Arg are not blessed with great wingers which is why we keep seeing new tryouts every game from Acosta to Salvio to Rigoni to Gomez. No need for all of this just play a traditional scheme with Acuna supporting the attack and make the Ecuadorians defend multiple midfielders pushing from deep instead of allowing their defenders the ability to predict your movement.
     
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