Argentina : Copa America 2019 discussion

Discussion in 'Argentina: Selecciones Nacionales' started by Rattlehead, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    4-4-2 is fine but with Lo Celso in center alongside Pereyra, De Paul on left and Lautaro replacing Aguero. Messi would be roaming freely in final third, either behind or next to Lautaro.

    Crespo probably talk about their workrate , he probably means Messi and Aguero doesnt preasure opponents when they're not on the ball which is true. They're to passive and both of them have the luxury when playing for their club so they dont really need to do that but in national team, they just cant rely from their teammates all the time to win the ball.
     
  2. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Martino is an excellent manager, I think his biggest problem was that the team had plateau and he couldn't lift them. Still, losing two CA finals via penalties is very close to being seen as a legendary manager for the NT, had we won the shootouts.
     
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  3. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I feel the same way as you, not everything is yet lost especially as both Paraguay and Qatar are beatable. I would go with the following formation:

    Musso
    Casco - Foyth - Pezzella - Tagliafico
    Paredes - Lo Celso - Pereyra - De Paul
    Messi - Martinez

    Also, I think the time has come to look at the possibility of having Messi come off as a substitute. I'd like to see how Dybala and Martinez play together up front since the start of a match.
     
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  4. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member

    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    According to TyC, this is how Argentina trained

    -----------------------Armani
    Casco--Pezzella---Otamendi---Tagliafico
    -------Pereyra---Paredes----Lo Celso
    --------Messi---Martinez----De Paul
     
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  5. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
  6. pipinogol

    pipinogol Member

    May 20, 2016
    Club:
    Cary RailHawks U23
    This is the best team we could field right now. If confirmed, then well done Scaloni.
     
  7. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Can Pereyra hold the defensive end? Can Casco attack wide on the wing?
     
  8. tatoRMN

    tatoRMN Member

    Oct 21, 2008
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes
     
  9. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yes, although I'd prefer Lo Celso in the center ... but maybe he wants Parades to bang those long range few more times.
     
  10. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I'm sure they will interchange, both can -theoretically at least, it didn't show in the last game - be good distributors, with De Paul providing the width. I'm more concerned about the right side, and about having a midfielder who actually defends. In that lineup it will have to be Pereyra by default, because it's not the strongest point for either Lo Celso or Paredes.
     
  11. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    We dont have much option in that case. I'd rather take the risk than having another defensive performance like in the first game where its basically 4-5-1 with Aguero being 10 miles away from the rest. The team never really try to push forward in numbers, we just relying on Messi chipping the ball forward to Aguero who literally had no one playing close to him.

    We're basically inviting Colombia to attack us. If Lo Celso played more in the central position, he can connect more directly with Messi, and Messi can roaming free in final third.
     
  12. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Called it :D I think Martinez attacking from the right a la David Villa or a young Suarez at Ajax makes even more sense, as he is more energetic and will defend that side as well stopping the opposing fullbacks from advancing freely and doubling up on Argentina's fullbacks. Never actually watched Casco play, so I won't comment. But it's good Scaloni doesn't panic and change everything all over... 4 changes in personnel is a lot, but the general shape and intention is that of the start of the 2nd half vs Colombia.
     
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  13. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member

    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    well it looks like Lo Celso will most probably play in the center with Pereyra more right oriented. Good news imo as I think the type of runs Lo Celso makes is more suited in the middle of the pitch that will help linkup with Messi a lot easier.



    "The idea is for Lo Celso to play in another position that will make him more comfortable."
     
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  14. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
  15. DTCrackheads

    DTCrackheads Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Mar 9, 2019
    If you watch Brazil, when they lose the ball they have all 10 men pressing and chasing to get it back.

    We had 8 against Colombia (7.5 in the 1st half. ADM counts as a very ineffective 0.5).
     
  16. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #291 Rattlehead, Jun 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
    Today's MOTM = VAR

    Brazil's group looks pretty interesting now, while Brazil might only need draw Peru to stay at the top, Venezuela beating Bolivia and Brazil lose to Peru means they could ended up in 3rd.

    Still couldnt get any goal against Venezuela.
     
  17. SupaMario

    SupaMario Member+

    Aug 31, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CA Tigre
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    It is interesting. If we do get of our group, and if things hold up in Group A and we finish second, we’ll have to go through Peru then Brasil in the semis and whoever on the other side of the bracket. Rather than, go through, Uruguay then Chile and then Brasil in the final. It still premature but going on Brasil’s side of the bracket would be interesting.
     
  18. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yea, the first would be the better scenario but if Colombia losing once within their next 2 games, we might still top the group if we do win our next 2.

    I saw the extended highlights and Brazil basically pressing but their attack just looked so random. They reminds me of our recent youth sides, just trying to shoot shoot and shoot. Alves even tries to score from like 35 yards yet his shot was only as powerfull and a short pass.
     
  19. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Sometimes. This season he sometimes disappears during the match. In others he works like a demon all game long. Of course it will be a different situation playing for the seleccion.

    As for Scaloni I am amazed by what he is doing. I already mentioned long before the tournament as Gaucho has pointed out as well that he was being Sampaoli like by constantly changing line ups.

    I cannot understand why Lo Celso played where he did and more so due to the other donkeys in midfield.

    If we have Foyth at the back at the very least we can counter quickly with accurate passes from the back to Messi out wide or de Paul. I do think were are in a real mess given the constant failures of teams of all levels on the international stage.

    Once again the AFA which is utterly useless needs to review the domestic structure, youth coaching and skills training and talent spotting and producing players who are mentally tough and quick thinking.

    Recent teams look brittle and the age group sides offer little encouragement with little footballing IQ. We cannot go on like this thinking because we are Argentina success will come along, superstars will pop up out from everywhere.

    We have not produced a world class defender and keeper in years. Why ? And at the moment once Aguero goes can El Toro be a world class striker ? And where are the playmakers that can control a match ? The sad thing is looking at teams of yesteryear you had to look at the players we left out and their quality. We had an embarrassment of riches. The way things are going the player pool is shrinking of decent enough players.

    There are many structural issues to deal with. Perhaps at the end of the day we should expect little. The sad thing is when we did lose the match I sort of expected it. It was not a shock although it had the same effect of a wave of depression once again.
     
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  20. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    He only realized this after the match. Why not before ? Is he mad ? Clueless ? Or both ? Anyone with an iota of common sense can understand this. I posted my formation and know what I want to see and how we play we three main axes of playmaking. One in attack midfield, Messi by himself alone and a defender like Foyth who can counter the press and also get into midfield with comfort.
     
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  21. Albiceleste2010

    Albiceleste2010 Member+

    Watford
    Argentina
    Jun 5, 2010
    Watford
    Club:
    Watford FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Like all the people in charge of the various seleccion teams you just have to wonder what goes in their minds ? Is someone else pulling the strings ? Are they just useless ?

    I wonder do they even keep tabs on all possible players for the seleccion and actually know what sort of form they are in and keep in mind the relative balance of the leagues they play in. These two donkeys play in a league which is mediocre and yet players like Santi are overlooked. If not Santi then Foyth is a class above in the same role.

    Escalante despite some people slagging him off has had a very solid season in La Liga and is more than capable of standing up to any physical challenge. Or how about Nicolas Dominguez at Velez or even Caseres ? These two are just as bad as Biglia if not worse.
     
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  22. DTCrackheads

    DTCrackheads Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Mar 9, 2019
    I would much rather have Santi and Escalante over the 2 Guidos.

    I feel like the team selection was biased towards domestic league and South/Central American league players. Maybe due to play style suiting this tournament? Maybe due to corruption trying to promote these leagues and not bow down to European football.

    We will never know.
     
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  23. DTCrackheads

    DTCrackheads Member

    Barcelona
    Argentina
    Mar 9, 2019
    The biggest question is: will Armani finally save a shot on goal tonight?

    I can't believe he is our starting keeper lol.
     
  24. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yeah, Matias Suarez coming in instead of Lautaro was just silly. He hardly able to trouble Nicaragua and Lautaro only need few minutes to get a brace. Lo Celso played mostly in center against NIcaragua, supplying the ball for Messi and he was able to roam near opponent box where he's most effective.

    Weak or strong opponent, its a friendly game which served as warm up for Copa.
    What Scolani did against Colombia was totally the opposite of what's already works well in previous game.

    Lo Celso as a winger, Messi playing as midfielder again while Aguero was replaced by 30+ year old who only had 1 game in NT .

    Armani does scares me but then again, Romero scares me aswell since 2010 but for whatever reason he was superb in 2012-2016. However, there's no sign Armani performance is going to that direction, but its not entirely his fault... just look at the state of our defense since 2017, you cant compare it to Tata and Sabella's era when there's Mascherano still in his prime commanding the defence plus the likes of Garay, Demichellis and Zabaleta.

    When your defence is shit, you can have best goalie on the planet and still conceiding many. Italy couldnt contain Spain's attack in 2012 final (down to 10 men) and Buffon conceided 4 goals. Buffon actually conceided alot in Champions league since Juventus has always been weak mentallity in this tournament.

    Neuer conceided goals against S Korea and Mexico and couldnt have been more if those teams actually has a better forwards.

    You cant always blame it purely on goalkeeper, especially if you watch our disasterous defence in WC 2018.
     
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  25. soul24rage

    soul24rage Member

    Jun 13, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I think more the former as of him being a bit mad. Although he should have recognized the problem much earlier (we even had the same problem building up play with Paredes and Rodriguez in the Nicaragua game), I'm glad he isn't that clueless unlike Sampaoli and we still have time with 2 group games. I think in hindsight, maybe the loss vs Colombia will be a blessing in disguise to enforce the changes that are necessary although it shouldn't have come to that point. Will see how the team does vs Paraguay.

    If you don't mind me asking, how do you feel with Pereyra potentially playing as a rightish CM? Of the few games that I watched Watford, I usually see him playing on the left side for Watford.
     
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