Arena’s book

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by superdave, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    TOAzer and adam tash repped this.
  2. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It seems like you may may be talking of someone specifically but not clear.

    Even better. Call Williams and Jones in. Play who looks better in camp and if somebody not getting the job done you have the other as a potential spark.

    Good catch on the cup games. Age and time in the cycle matter as well. WCQ in 16 is different than friendlies in 17. It is philosophy of accelerating the players into the pool and having the coach decide first hand based on them training with the other players whether they can contribute. It isn’t hindsight, but after the fact proves both could have been useful in the second half of 2017 (aka those last 4 qualifiers).

    Yes, the consistent standard is a player with high potential that could be of use to the team within a year. Nobody said anything about putting them in the 23. You just need to call them into camp to assess them and get them integrated so they can play when they are ready. Maybe it is the first game like Pulisic or it is six months. We often have more than 23 in camp and no reason a few shouldn’t be kids when we are calling in such average players. JK did call in CCV in 2016 without any games (he probably would have done better than Gonzalez). Your algorithm is too complicated. Would our midfield have been better with McKennie or JGo than Nagbe is the only question needed to be asked. McKennie could have already been in camp and gotten minutes in a friendly. The bar for consistency isn’t that high as Nagbe has consistently shown he isn’t. From watching JGo shortly thereafter, I think we would have been much better off with staying at home and distributing and giving Bradley more freedom. Any reasonable coach could have seen that in a couple of practices.

    What tier league is MLS? This framework sounds much better than the very simplest 1st division stuff that usually gets used.
     
  3. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    "But after the fact" is literally arguing from hindsight. It's saying these things happened, therefore before they happened, because they happened, x decision should have been made.

    People who are good at making projections understand that they are often wrong and the lower the quantity and quality of information that those projections are based on the greater the uncertainty. Your amorphous standard requires an evaluator who makes great projections. It would result in a large pool of potentially useful players many of whom won't turn out to be useful in that timeframe, or maybe ever. What is the standard used to sort through that pool? How do you balance that pool with players who are actually useful today? This threadbare standard is actually just an invitation to arbitrariness.

    This is a complicated issue requiring the consideration of more than one thing. Maybe that's why managers are so handsomely rewarded.

    I'm generally in favor of calling guys in to have in-person looks (and thus gather high quality, useful information). Even then you are not going to know how a player responds to real competition or how consistent they are, that risk can't be priced without information from their club team or after multiple caps. I also favor in-person looks against direct competition because I don't think most evaluators are good enough to compare across environments or make reasonable projections. Something to remember about call ups is that club teams have to agree to release the player if they aren't in the main roster.

    I was cool with Wes getting a look, if Schalke agreed to it, in September. I was in favor of calling him up in October, but he got injured. JGo was in the see-how-he-trains category in October. It's unfortunate that they didn't break through in time to get real playing time in crucial games.

    MLS is a third tier league.
     
  4. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    It is after the fact for the general public, but if they are getting paid big bucks, they shouldn’t miss/be late on players. One of the national team’s coach/staff highest priority should be tracking young players and getting them involved before they prove they could start for us.

    I don’t see what the risk of calling players in and think the risk is substantially bigger of not doing so.

    The easiest solution to all this is having a full time u23(ish) team that meets concurrently for a good portion of the windows. This enables being aggressive about calling players in and giving a chance to start integrating ones that show well. Ifmthat cant hang then they are sent back down.
     
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  5. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a good idea if FIFA rules allow that many players to be called up during a window and have the extra credit of having a good U23 bunch ready for Olympic qualifying. Maybe even alternate domestic and U23's in Europe. Anyone how many players can be called up?
     
  6. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    After the Panama match, when asked about the next game, Bruce said basically: I don't give two $hits about a team we can beat in our sleep and I have no idea who plays for them or who their coach is. I'm Bruce Arena!

    Now read Juergen Klopp's comments after a breathtaking victory over Roma in the Champions League semifinal in Liverpool:

    "We will fight with all we have for that result again. It's much better than I could have expected before the game. But now in the moment I, of course, feel the two goals we conceded.

    "To be 100 percent honest, I'm already in the Stoke game [on Saturday]. I'm much more interested in the Stoke game at the moment."

    Stoke is in a relegation battle. the second worst team in the league. Liverpool is hovering between second and third in the table. To provide some context.

    That's a real damn ball coach.
     
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  7. HouseHead78

    HouseHead78 Member+

    Oct 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think anyone thinks that Arena is as good a coach as Klopp. But if you're going to quote one coach verbatim and use your own characterization of the other's words you're gonna seem a little biased.
     
  8. Sam Hamwich

    Sam Hamwich Member+

    Jul 11, 2006
    #108 Sam Hamwich, Apr 25, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
    Seen?

    I can't find the comments. We have plenty of his commentary, but not that little nugget that I can find.
     
  9. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    You're saying that if a young player who will be good enough to help in 1 year is not called up to the national team for a vital competitive game after playing a handful of club minutes then the coach has failed. That otherwise they have missed/are late on a player.

    The risk of a non-callup is that a dual-national will switch. That can be mitigated by developing a relationship and laying out a plan for integration.

    Club teams don't like releasing first-team players for these things.
     
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  10. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    How much of an advancement did he get for this? I kinda wonder if there's a big enough market for this?
     

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