It was once mentioned in one of my recertification clinics that as ARs, at least as noticed in my area, we weren't doing a good job of correctly establishing the "place where the infringement" occurred, meaning instead of setting the free kick from where the infringement occurred we were continually establishing the kick at the second-to-last defender since that's where we were stationed at the time of the call. I've tried to be aware of that comment over the course of my last season, but the vast vast majority of my offside calls are within a yard or three, nothing too long. During today's clinic, however, while listening to a presentation on ARs, I started thinking of something because of one of the bullet points that stated that the AR shouldn't move until he's put his flag down (don't be walking around with it up in the air). What are the proper AR mechanics, starting from the referee's acknowledgment (assuming all other mechanics are correct), for an offside infraction where the player deemed to be offside is a good five, ten, or more yards past the second-to-last defender? I should have asked at the clinic, but I didn't.
You'd have to check in your locality to be sure of the mechanics. I've been told to keep the flag vertical until the referee acknowledges it or until the situation changes such that the offside doesn't matter any more (e.g. defense recovers the ball and play goes out the other way). Only after the ref stops play do you lower your flag to 45* up, horizontal, or 45* down to indicate far/mid/near part of the field. At that time you would also move laterally to where the the offside player was positioned at the time his teammate last touched the ball. Yes, sometimes that could be a fair distance away from your position. We might also note that the AR could be moving while waiting for involvement in play, and he would then have to remember the correct place for the restart. It's not a big enough deal to worry about the exact blade of grass. The kick is at least 50 yards from the goal, and it's an indirect anyway. Plus or minus a few yards, or even a few tens of yards, isn't going to make that much of a difference.
When the whole clarification of when to flag came out a year ago, this very question was asked in recert clinics, as well as instructor clinics. The situation was desicribed to be: - stay with 2LD - ball goes through and you don't pop the flag yet, but now you have to run with the ball, thereby leaving the 2ld line and the position of the restart. - attacker "becomes involved" and you pop the flag, potentially 20-30+ yards from where the infraction was. - pop the flag, wait for whistle. - drop flag, run back up field to the infraction spot, - do the 45 deg up/down/straight out indication. What I am not sure of is where the "infraction point is", was it the 2ld line or where the attacker was at the time, which are usually very close, but maybe not all the time. I also saw an AR get ripped on an assessment when he stayed at the 2ld line and watched the play head down the field, then popped the flag as the "involvement" happened, problem was the ball/attacker/defender where 20 yds downfield from him, he had stayed at where the restart would be. He got ripped because what if he hadn't called it, now he's way out of position.
If you are 20-30 yards away from where that player was in an offside position you probably waited too long to make a decision. Once that player moves to the ball he is involved. He doesn't need to touch the ball only become involved. That would be when he first moves to the ball. Not a whole lot has changed in the way we judge offside with the new directives. The ball must be placed where that offside player was judged to be in offside position when last touched by his team mate.
For the most part the position on this particular restart is trivial and as you say, it's not proper mechanics to run with the flag up. So... I just hold my spot and signal. I suppose if there was a 30 yard change or something I would tell the referee, but that hasn't really happened - and besides I don't think the infringing team gains any terrific advantage by some extra yards in their defensive end when knocking the ball up. Keeping it simple here seems the most prudent thing of all, micro-managing restart positions in the defesnive half (particularly for the offside call when players are used to just accepting the AR's position as the spot of the restart) will probably cause confusion which is to be avoided at all costs.
This doesn't help. If you are even with the 2LD and an attacker is 20-30 yards offside, the attacker moving toward the ball does not necessarily mean he is involved. He may be getting into position to be onside when his onside teammate gets to the ball! OR he may get involved before getting onside! The latest directives encourages us to wait until the latter occurs before raising the flag! As indicated in previous posts, getting the call right is more important than being in the right position to point to the restart. Particularly if that position interferes with the former.
What doesn't help. I think that you are adding something else to the posted question. I think that we are intelligent enough to see whether or not a player is running back onside and not playing the ball when he is 20-30 yards away from you. We do not need to wait until something happens or an offside player plays or touches the ball. We are to wait when there are other attackers who may have a chance to play the ball or if the ball is going to played by the keeper unchallenged. But we don't wait for every offside call as you imply. This was the confusion in the WC and showed by what Referees did afterward and needed clarification.
I don't think he meant running back onside. I think he meant running upfield, staying a little behind the ball, so he will be onside if one of his onside teammates gets to the ball.
This is true in most rec and amateur games. However, doing upper level select games, you may have two or three players running on to a through ball, of which only one may have been in an offside position when the ball was last touched by his mate (I had that situation more than once this weekend during tournament). In that case you would find yourself delaying the flag, following the play, and waiting to see what happens. If/when the infraction does occur, you could have a lengthy trek back to where the infraction initiated.
Yes but not what was asked originally. I covered similar in another post. Following the play is also different than following the offside player all the way down 30 yards before deciding he was involved and the needing to run back to the spot. Following the players breaking through means that you are still even with 2nd to last defender and the moving with the ball and players. Pretty much normal. Then flagging if needed when and if that offside player becomes involved before that ball is played again.
Well techincally the ball must be placed where the infraction occurred. That is where the offside player broke law 11 not when he started in an offside position. But I think this stuff gets rather picky in the grand scheme of the game. Just make the call and be done with it, forget back treking as far as I'm concerned.
Where he was offside when the ball was last touched or played to him by a team mate is where he started in offside. That would be the correct location of the free kick. Where else do you believe he infringed Law 11?
If this was true, you could have kicks for the offside infraction occuring in the attacking half of the field.
So? If that is where he is when you choose to raise the flag/blow the whistle, then so be it. While it may be true that we should be giving the kick where the player was when the ball was played by his teammate, IMO, logically you should give it where the player is when the AR decides he is when his participation begins. We must have debated this before in the past, no?
OH jeeze here we go again... How does one come to be offside? It is not an offence in itself to be in an offside position. A player is in an offside position if: • he is nearer to his opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second last opponent A player is not in an offside position if: • he is in his own half of the fi eld of play or • he is level with the second last opponent or • he is level with the last two opponents When is the offside law broken? A player in an offside position is only penalised if, at the moment the ball touches or is played by one of his team, he is, in the opinion of the referee, involved in active play by: • interfering with play or • interfering with an opponent or • gaining an advantage by being in that position How do we punish a breach of Law 11? For any offside offence, the referee awards an indirect free kick to the opposing team to be taken from the place where the infringement occurred. * (see page 3) Soooo.... what does this men? Hmmm. Well I suppose it means you award an IFK from the point at which law 11 was violated (see above). If that violation occurs in a player's own half it would seem that is where the free kick should go. But again... it doesn't need to be made this COMPLICATED! Just put the flag up and give the kick and leave it alone...
What are you talking about? You're dumb if you don't know about Winning 11 - 10. (Just kidding about the dumb thing, but you really are missing out) It's only the greatest soccer game to ever be made. Respek. Boo yah kah shaw.
i know! but i'm one of those evil people who can't play a soccer game without arsenal and smicer and galatasaray and the english south midlands league i'm so ashamed.....
Arsenal is in #10. The entire EPL of last year is. I don't know about the south midlands league though.
I know PS2 for sure (but thats only out in Japan... my friend bought a copy and got the english conversion thing though) but when it's released in the West you should be good.