Craven the Lifestyle: Antonee Robinson at Fulham

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by bballshawn, Nov 27, 2014.

  1. autobus39

    autobus39 Member+

    Jun 28, 2006
    Scranton, PA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1159273975131910145 is not a valid tweet id


     
  2. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Eighteen Alpha and freisland repped this.
  3. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Wigan's right side is bad. Robinson may be nothing extraordinary, but Byrne and Kipre are poor. 3-0 to Preston.
     
  4. bshredder

    bshredder BigSoccer Supporter

    Feb 23, 1999
    Club:
    Millwall FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK then.. as Jens Cajuste is a US citizen who is not eligible for the USMNT. It appears as if Alfredo Morales doesn't meet the criteria as well.

    Can someone tell me how Antonee Robinson is eligibe for the USMNT?

    Here is the rule which has been in place for well over a decade.

    upload_2019-8-14_12-23-55.png
     
  5. KicksNgiggles

    KicksNgiggles Member

    Aug 18, 2016
    BHM
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you have some free time and look into this or is there a scandal afoot?
     
  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Stop writing these!

    Go look into Mexican players please!!!!
     
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  7. NCFan

    NCFan Member

    Dec 11, 2014
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Agreed. What could possibly compel any US fan into trying to expel as many brown dual nationals as possible from the national team? It’s not cool.
     
  8. Casper

    Casper Member+

    Mar 30, 2001
    New York
    If US Soccer dropped the ball on this, I don't even know what to say. I guess I just hope we don't get suspended, or there's an answer we don't know about?
     
  9. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's one way to interpret what he wrote. Another way to interpret it is to check on Mexican NT players who naturalized from other countries.
     
  10. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    ********ing up something this simple, this badly, would be quintessential US Soccer.
     
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  11. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's fine. I can't speak for @DHC1, but I doubt he meant for you to dig up info to try and get rid of any Mexican-Americans.
     
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  12. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Wow. Morales played one game in the 2015 Gold Cup. Since we didn't finish in the top three, I guess we wouldn't lose anything, no?
     
  13. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you seriously this dumb?
     
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  14. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    They tried to write the rules in a fair way and there are very few who don't qualify under at least one of those provisions, since most countries don't go back further than grandparents to grant citizenship. It's more problematic with naturalized players (and in this case, naturalized parents) who may move around or not easily qualify for citizenship.

    The old rule used to be, "Got a passport? You're in."
     
  15. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    I guess, though it's pretty quirky. For instance, under those rules, Kik Pierie is US eligible, but younger bros Stijn and Take would not be.

    And, obviously, any number of USMNTers of old would not have made the cut.

    Wonder what they do about the countries-formerly-known-as-Yugoslavia, or other geographic changes. Guess I'll have to look close at the rules.
     
  16. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Does Freddy Adu or Gedion Zelalem qualify with that rule?
     
  17. Sebsasour

    Sebsasour Member+

    New Mexico United
    May 26, 2012
    Albuquerque NM
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gedion Zelalem needed a waiver which he got just before the U20 World Cup in 2015
     
  18. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was under the rule that required someone receiving a new citizenship to live 5 years in the country after turning 18. There are a lot of waivers for that one for players who haven't reached 23 yet.
     
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  19. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In the Morales thread, I found a ruling from CAS that says that Para. 6 only applies to those 7 countries that have more than one citizenship (US, UK, China, etc.) It shouldn't apply to those countries that were part of Yugoslavia.

    The Pieries aren't a good example because Stijn & Take aren't US citizens anyway. A better example is Desevio Payne. His father naturalized to the US & his mother is Dutch. His younger brothers are US citizens, but not eligible under that paragraph.
     
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  20. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Freddy was living in the US, so he would qualify, though his eligibility came from the naturalization provision, not the one above. He started playing for the US in 2002; the updated provisions came into effect in 2004.
     
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  21. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Yes - I should have added "if his folks had become US citizens while in Boston." Payne is the actual version of that. And a few former US players.

    But as far as the rest - I believe you and BS might be reading it wrong? (not sure, but it's possible - see below)

    https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/fif...players-who-have/1hndiedxd2d4h1jfved27pg4go#1

    Article 6 applies ONLY to the 7 countries where there are "territory" teams (as well as or instead of "national" teams ie. Scotland vs. "Great Britain", American Samoa vs. USMNT.) THOSE are the 7 cases where a player or their parent/grandparent must live "on" the territory. (ie. you couldn't play for American Samoa if you only visited, not lived for 2 continuous years.)

    The next article (7) applies only to players who "assume a new nationality in order to play for a national team." It's not clear to me if this still is in reference to only the 7 countries with "multiple territory teams" or not, but I think maybe it is? (Why else us "territory" rather than "country" in the sentence?) Maybe Para 7 only applies to the 7 exceptions listed. ie. a naturalized citizen of the US could not choose to appear for American Samoa without living there 5 years, but still can play for the USMNT? Fifa lawyers will know better.

    Assuming a new nationality
    Article 7deals with players who assume a new nationality in order to play for a national team and it uses the mostly the same criteria as Article 6.1, with only item (d) differing. In Article 7, the condition in item (d) says that a player will be eligible to play for a representative team if he has "lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant association."

    Seems the question is did Robinson "assume a new nationality in order to play" for the USMNT.
     
  22. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think that's how FIFA reads naturalization (I have yet to find a good definition of the term from FIFA), but Robinson was born a US citizen. Not sure how that would be considered a "new" nationality. The rules definitely aren't as clear as they could be, but I think Article 6 applies (absent some cross USA agreement with the other "American" FAs).

    Article 7 has been used against all countries, not just the 7. Remember, the rules were put into place to stop Qatar just naturalizing Brazilians (much like the Qatari handball team).
     
  23. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    I for sure am no expert, but that article suggest 6 only applies to players with multiple options within their own "country" (the "7").

    Anyway, I don't really know enough to wade into this debate (yet here I am!), but it seems a less-than-clear policy as I read the articles on it. Perhaps Fifa has a better idea what they are referring to. I think it's mostly citizenship-shopping - which guys like Robinson clearly are not doing (just country shopping.) Perhaps they grant waivers for those situations.
     
  24. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, it primarily applies to that... a player with options of Guam or the US, but Antonee doesn't have connection to any of the FAs. How do the federations decide the "none of the above" category? A written agreement could take care of that (and maybe it has), but if you don't have an approved rule, seems you are stuck with the rules of 6.1.
     
  25. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Yeah. I don't know enough to know. And there is this "general principal" as well, which seems to apply to the Robinson's of the world...

    Principle of national team eligibility
    The general principle, in Article 5.1, states: "Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the association of that country."
     

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