Still kinda amazed at the lack of security these people have. I mean if you know you are going to publish something that is going to incense some lunatics, shouldn't you take some steps to protect your property? http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/02/world/europe/france-magazine-burning/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
If I call you a dick and you punch me is that an attack on free speech? I hope they rebuild (I assume they had insurance) and they come back with more prints making fun of what ever they like. I also hope the police catches the criminals that set fire to the building.
Actually yes that would be an attack by me on you and for what? Calling me a name? You have the right to call me what you want. I of course have the right to call you something back. But I don't have the right to violence.
That may be so, but it does not give anyone the right to take violent actions like torching the place of buisness.
Absolutely agree but it's hardly the first time this has happened. If they find the perps...great, try them to the Nth degree of the law, just don't be surprised when you **** with the bull and get the horns.
How about if you keep poking me in the chest and I tell you that if you don't stop I'm gonna knock your block off....is this a free speech issue?
Physically poking someone in the chest is not speech. Satirical writing is. But to review before this thread goes down the rabbit hole: 1. Charlie Hebdo has the absolute right to publish what they did. 2. Charlie Hebdo are kinda dicks.
Yes, but when I sue you I will sue you for battery not for infringement on my free speech rights. I guess we can think of it as say the Drug Cartels that kill Journalist or Newspaper workers that write about them, I guess that a case can be made that they are censoring the newspapers with fear, so denying the media their free speech right. I guess that in my mind free speech questions were government vs. citizen, but I guess citizen vs. citizen can also be made into a free speech issue. So maybe you are right, this is a free speech issue.
I guess this would be the equivalent of me telling racist jokes about Bolivian people, that would make me a dick, but it would not give you the right to burn down my house.
I've already said it's wrong to resort to violence about 5 posts ago, I get it. What I'm saying is that it should not come as any shock to people this has happened. Look, I don't pretend to know what goes thru an Islamic fundamentalists mind. As a Christian I've seen things aimed at my beliefs over and over again that I find offensive and hurtful. My religion teaches me to forgive and love my enemies where as the Koran has been open to interpretation from different factions for eons. The majority of muslims are a peace loving family oriented people that want nothing more than to live quietly practicing their religion. Then there is the radical fringe that takes a passage or two out of the Koran and interprets it to say that any dishonor brought on the Prophet is punishable by death. Salman Rushdie and the Dutch newspaper editor can attest to this. I don't condone violence for one second, I'm just saying don't be surprised when these radicals that have been saying FOREVER that if you ridicule their religion will come after you...do.
Exactly, you have to expect that you invite these types of actions from these radicals, though my point here is that we should not accept it. Not saying anyone does, but we need to be vocal about how we will not accept fringe lunatics controlling what we can or can't say. It comes across almost as dealing with a bully, you can either back down and do what they demand, or you can stand up to them and keep fighting. I think ceezmad you hit upon another area of free speech under attack with the drug cartels. This is of a similar nature. We don't like what you say so we will kill/burn down your building cause of it. It isn't acceptable and there is no reason we should put up with it. Free speech is free speech and I don't care who is deprived of it, it is wrong to do so.
Isn't this what the war on terror is? Basically going after them.....with violence? I mean getting up on a soapbox and screaming "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore" doesn't do much unless you put some force behind it, right?
Right, Osama screaming kill Americans was ok (free speech), until he wanted to redecorate NYC and did not like the way them towers looked, that was not very cool.
Well not really. I would say the war on terror has its roots in 9/11 which was of course violence personified. To me this issue can be addressed by publications not backing down and continuing to do stories as they see fit.
And when that happens it is how we as a whole respond that matters. Frankly I feel we are failing miserably in Mexico. Not that I expect US troops to go in and fight, but it should be posted and reposted everywhere and everytime these hits take place. When the violence takes place, I would love if 100 new voices step up with comments and write about it. Not that I would object if someone also stepped up and took out these bastards on a permanent basis, but the best way to defeat these attacks on free speech is to respond more vigoursly each time they happen. I also think that if any publication does do a story that will enflame these radicals, they need to write a story where they tell the moderate muslims side and why they feel the way they do about these cartoons and other imagery of their prophet.
Bump. @argentine soccer fan @Ismitje Seems like the shooting thread after the Paris shootings tuned into a free speech debate, a very interesting debate but the mass shooting thread is probably not the best place for it. Man we move the comments from the new shootings thread to this free speech thread, maybe cahnge the title to just debate abut free speech or something. http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/time-for-yet-another-mass-shooting-thread.2015556/page-2
Don't people get arrested for this if (and yes it is very hard to prove) the state feels their speech can lead to others committing violence. I believe he means in Europe who complains, and well lots of people do complain. Many Muslims complain that there is a double standard in Europe, where antisemitism real or perceived is punished / persecuted more harshly than AntiIslam actions real or perceived.