Lainez: 5G, 3A in 2805 minutes. There's no guarantee any player will produce, so its all conjecture over whose better or which player European teams would think is better, but a player who puts up those numbers in an average league is not worth 14M.
Good lord. Ok, I admit it. I'm the ringleader of a secret society, the dark cabal of BS, Ordo Templi BigSoccerentis, where under black cloaks and moonlight and while worshiping Pagan symbolism, we plan how to derail kids careers on internet forums if they've threatened to steal the spotlight from our top secret list of prospects whose YNT internet status must be protected.
You can only get this kind of entertainment from Carleton's and Pulisic's threads... May I say coincidence?
Continued partying not essential. Notice that discussion about Carleton is now on the U20 roster thread. What we need now is some discussion on the YNT-eligible MLS thread.
Who even THINKS like this?? I'm trying to think of who my "personal favorites" are in this or any other age group... I have no freaking clue... What does that even mean? Likable on a personal level? Like their game / style? Think they will have the best careers? National team impact? Most upside? Is the US somehow limited in how many American kids can succeed? Does anything said here by random internet folks have any impact whatsoever on how any professional soccer player performs / develops in real life? Is "the spotlight" even a good thing? And if anything, maybe Carleton needs less of a spotlight on him so he can focus on what's important for his development... In terms of having personal favorites and thinking about these freaking kids as a "zero sum game" (that's what I'm getting from the quote above) where some must be built up while others are torn down, could there perhaps be a bit of projection happening here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection Good lord....
Not sure why I am adding to this thread as it perpetuates the issue but here goes: The problem with the Carlton supporters is they over state his talent and ability at this point. Statements like "he has all the talent in the world, and most talented youth player ever" and comparing him with Pulisic are extremely premature. As a result postesr come on here and try to bring the evaluation back to reality, causing the fans to go another round with them. Carlton is a good player with a promising future, if he gets playing time at At United this year. He made a mistake by going to Atl in my book but that can be debated. As for his recent play, he hasn't played enough in the MLS to make any decisions about his talent at that level. Some like to point to the MLS all star rookie game but they must have been watching a different game than I was. He had a few good dribbles and one dynamic move in the corner that his fans gushed over but for long stretches of the game he was non-existent ( so much so the announcers questioned why he wasn't more involved in the game) and he lost it quite a bit. As an attacking player its OK if he loses it in the attacking third trying to be dynamic, but his turnover ration is pretty high for now. That should get better as he ages. Will be a good story to follow this Spring.
All due respect, but you don't even know how to spell his name. Makes me wonder how much you have actually watched him play. Do you have anything to back up the statement that his turnover ratio is high? That has not been a problem in his 350 or so minutes in MLS. In the homegrown game, he played the first 45 minutes. That was an exhibition game where he mostly dazzled -- you could pick out just about any player in the world in any game they have ever played and say that they "disappeared" for stretched. It's unrealistic to expect any player at any level to dominate a game for it's entirety. He is a different player than Pulisic. He relies more on technique and creativity than athleticism and directness. That said, I don't understand why some are offended by the notion that he has the same type of ceiling as Pulisic. He is an immensely talented player, and he has produced consistently for a number of years over different levels of the spectrum. To say that he has Pulisic-like potential is not crazy. We should be producing that sort of quality on a somewhat regular basis now. There are statements that you make like when you mention "his fans..." This begs the question: Aren't you a fan of his, too. Aren't we all rooting for this kid? Why do people who see a high level of potential get labeled basically as fanboys? He's not made it yet. Nobody is saying that he is the savior of the national team. What some, like me, are saying is that he could easily make a quick ascension ala Pulisic, McKennie, and Adams. It seems that so many here get offended by this level of optimism, when, in fact, there is plenty of reason and evidence to back it up.
Frank de Boer with some comments on how he sees the academy playing into his vision. Frank de Boer outlines his vision for the partnership with @atlutd2 and the @AcademyATLUTD.#UniteAndConquer pic.twitter.com/Yuvn0rFFC9— Bally Sports South (@BallySportsSO) January 14, 2019
Yup. We should keep in mind that last season was he was 18 year old last season. How many attacking players younger than Andrew Carleton saw consistent time in the league? I think the answer is one. Alphonso Davies of Vancouver. Between MLS, USOC, and USL..............Andrew Carleton did play ~1500 minutes. So its not like he was rotting. Andrew Carleton signed his contract with ATL in June of 2016. So he signed his deal before the first team had ever played a game. He didn't know what the culture of the club was going to be. He didn't know that they were going to sign a whole bunch of high-profile foreign players to eat his potential minutes. Tata wasn't even hired yet. He should probably have waited, but he presumably caught up in the excitement of the new club. This isn't like FCD or RSL where kids and parents have more of an education and understanding of what they can expect should they sign on the dotted line. It was a complete unknown for Andrew.................... I don't think anybody is saying Carleton is the second coming of Pulisic. All I can say is that when Andrew got on the field for ATL, he showed he was capable of playing at an MLS level. Given consistent playing time can he grow into more than that? Maybe. We don't know. He has to be given the chance first.
Have seen him play enough to get a feel for his game, all spelling errors aside. Talent evaluation is subjective and mine is based on what I have seen. He loses the ball too much. Again, that may change. Also don't see anything that makes believe he has Pulisic level talent yet. Mainly think its too early to see all the hype we see around Andrew. To be fair to him, he is only getting started and will have a chance to prove himself hopefully this year. In a year I may agree he is a highly talented player with tons of upside. Right now the jury is still out. Not a fan and don't dislike him either. For the sake of the National Team I hope he turns into something and I become a fan.
This thread has turned into an absolute disaster. It's now nothing more than fan boys vs. haters. Bottom line is, none of us know how this will all play out. There are so many variables in play, no one can possibly know how those variables will forge his course. One thing is true. Talent alone will not cut it in todays environment. Mentality and professionalism is at least half of the final product. Good luck to AC - he definitely has some talent, lets hope he can match up all the other characteristics of a great player with that talent.
Lol there is no one on BS that hates an talented American youth player. get outta here with that. the only disaster is those who aren't realistic or those who gravitate to certain players and NEVER alter the views.
Very encouraging. "I think this is one of the aspects for why they chose me because I have had the relationship at Ajax with the academy. The also want me to have that here. Of course the first team and the performance of the first team is the most important thing but I will not hesitate when I can let a young player debut because I think he's up to it. When you are young and you are ready I'm not hesitating to put you in the first team. I did it with Ajax, I did it with Crystal Palace, and because at the end see, you know, what's the projection of that guy and you need minutes to really know that player when he comes in the first team but also he needs that experience, and I will give them that when they are ready".
This seems to imply he was there. Appears all #atlutd players reported for training camp. Haven’t seen PASS, though— Doug Roberson (@DougRobersonAJC) January 15, 2019
Wow. It's beyond belief to say that Lainez isn't way ahead of AC at this point. However, it doesn't mean that it will always be that way. If AC lights it up this year and is MLS Best XI, one can make an argument vs. a benchwarmer at Betis but probably not if Lainez is playing well there. But the fact is is that AC hasn't secured a starting spot in MLS, let alone light it up as a Best XI so he's way behind Lainez. If it changes, it changes and and then you and USS97531 can deservedly crow about how you knew it all along but right now, it's just belief in an unproven prospect while there are similarly aged players who have broken through.
I do think that Lainez is a top level player. He seems to be Mexico's best youth product by a mile. But I still believe that Carleton's potential is higher than his. To say that either Lainez or Carleton is "way ahead" of the other is silly at this point in their careers. Neither has done much of anything, and judging this move to Real Betis brilliant seems optimistic given that he hasn't even played for them yet. For Carleton's part, he still hasn't even gotten his chance yet. He has progressed very quickly at every step of his development, and he showed great signs that he can carry that form over to MLS. There will be some actual huge developments here in the next weeks and months, so we will see. The only comparison that makes any sense regarding these guys is with their potential. At this point in their careers, Carleton playing with Atlanta in MLS is not necessarily a lower level than Lainez playing at Betis in La Liga. We'll see how each of them plays and what their roles are on their respective teams, but even then we will still be a long ways from being able to draw any real conclusions about what they are fully capable of.
You don’t think that Lainez’s performance with America outweighs AC’s with Atlanta? FFS - it’s one thing to believe in a player’s potential and another to just ignore all the facts. Lainez earned significantly more minutes than AC at a better club than ATL and earned a sizable transfer to Betis. On the other hand, AC’s professional career to date has been nothing close to this. It doesn’t he can’t catch up and even surpass Lainez but simply acknowledges that he’s significantly behind right now. For some reason, you just can’t see this.
Carleton hasn't even gotten his chance yet. My thought is that when he gets his chance, he will shine. That is what everything that I have seen suggests. You are holding things Carleton either because of unrealistic expectations or because of illogical comparisons. Saying one is "far behind" the other right now is like saying that a runner that gets a one hundred yard head start in a marathon is "far ahead." It just doesn't make any sense when you put some perspective on it.
It’s not a hundred yards in your analogy, the difference in actual preofessional performance is at least a half mile lead after the first three miles and you’re saying “they’re practically tied.” They’re not; Lainez is demonstrably ahead right now but it is reasonably early in the race. Note: I’ve said nothing about the ceiling for either player (which appears to be your point even though you can’t admit that they’ve not advanced at the same rate).
I see Atlanta United signed a 19 yo midfielder, from Watford, yesterday. Any ideas how this affects AC?