An Alternative Hypothesis

Discussion in 'Elections' started by American Brummie, Nov 9, 2016.

  1. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    You realize population change in America isn't a zero sum game right?

    http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2016/05/cleveland_population_slows_fin.html

    http://www.city-data.com/city/Cincinnati-Ohio.html

    https://www.google.com/#safe=active&q=Detroit Population 2012

    Amazingly, one's vote in a city doesn't actually count when they don't live in that city.

    Do you now understand that the the midwest is getting smaller, older, and whiter?

    And are you just going to ignore the fact that Maria Cantwell got more votes in rural counties in 2012 than Hillary got in 2016? Unless Cantwell only recently obtained a vagina, that raises a doubt in your theory
     
  2. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    It doesn't actually take much time, when you also pay attention to social movements.
     
  3. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Between 2010 and 2015, the census estimates that 35,000 fewer people live in Cuyahoga. So you might have found half those voters, assuming they're all Democrats, all voted for Obam.a. Where are the other half?
     
  4. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    College students and millennials who voted for Harambe? College students and millennials who felt no desire to vote Democratic and didn't want to vote trump either? Going to the bathroom? Having sex?

    Whatever the reason, they didn't hate woman.
     
  5. appoo

    appoo Member+

    Jul 30, 2001
    USA
    Anyways, your entitled to your opinion. Maybe you have to go through this like it's the 5 stages of grief. I'm done with this nonsensical debate, I'll let others debate you.
     
  6. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But these college students and millennials did show up in Florida. In North Carolina. In California. In Nevada. Even in Washington.
     
  7. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Could any of this be related to the effetive GOP campaign to frame her as corrupt? A narrative that was reinforced by her own primary competition and ultimately confirmed by her own actions?

    Could any of this be the ghosts of Iraq, Lybia, Ukraine and Syria rearing their ugly heads? Could any of this be her fake plastic public persona?

    As long as we're looking for missing Obama votes we can try opening some of these other doors. This country is not a monolith. These variables are going to play out differently in different parts of the country.
     
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  8. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    As noted, turnout in Summit County (Akron) was almost 71%. Urban Dems sure seemed to come out.
     
  9. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    The "idiot" you're referring to is not quite a doctrinaire Dem, to be fair.
     
  10. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    Why do people keep spelling it "Lybia"?

    I mean, you're a keystroke-slip away from a real faux-pas.
     
  11. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    I grabbed her by the Lybia.
     
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  12. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But why do they play better in certain parts of the country. Why are Ohioans more receptive to GOP attempts to frame her as corrupt when Nevadans, Georgians, and Washingtonians weren't?
     
  13. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    It must be deep in the subconscious for some people.
     
  14. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    #89 Dr. Wankler, Nov 10, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2016
    It's statistically less likely to occur than mistyping Hillary Clitnon...
     
  15. Boloni86

    Boloni86 Member+

    Jun 7, 2000
    Baltimore
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Gibraltar
    Disclaimer : I'm pulling this put of my ***. But there's probably different factors at play in different states. Nevada has the Hispanic variable that is not as influential in rust belt. Washington state is one of the most desirable places to live in the country so maybe the population there is more successful and content with status quo. Georgia is probably a combination of both those factors ... uptick in Hispanic and other minority populations and uptick in successful professional class.
     
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  16. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    See, these are differing hypotheses and we can have a civil conversation about it.
     
  17. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    I'm not prepared to say why the Rust Belt was so different from the rest of the country, but it's interesting that late deciders in the Rust Belt (and Florida) broke for Trump at much higher margins than elsewhere.

     
  18. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    The late surge in the Rust Belt, IMO, had a lot to do with this ad. It doesn't matter that the narrative is tinged with the kind of conspiracy theories that remind some of the Elders of Zion, or the kind of ideas peddled by Lyndon La Rouche, the theories about the so-called Trilateral Commission, or whatever. The ad was beamed to folks who for the most part aren't even aware of that historical context to the narrative, and the scapegoats weren't the "Jews" even if they included Jews (and even if Trump wasn't above giving some of those Jews a more prominent glaze). The scapegoats were instead the establishment in the US, tied to some alleged global network tied to international financial interests and 'big corporations' all working to rob the average Joe of his union job and taking his/her work to places it is done cheaper or bringing in cheaper workers here to do that job.

    For the record, while I adamantly believe in the fact that AIPAC and the pro Israeli lobby has inordinate influence on American foreign policy, this particular strand of conspiracy theory isn't something that I believe in at all. But the way the story was told in ad can easily influence the blue collar workers it was beamed to flip.



    P.S.
    Florida, on the other hand, was flipped by a somewhat opposite tactic. There, Trump went out of his way to paint himself the champion of Israel and the guy who would stand up to Iran. While Trump, besides being a pig, is also quite a con man, with little clear indication of what he intends to do now that he has won the big prize, I have to admit that I underestimated him too. The guy knows how to make a sales pitch.
     
  19. DoyleG

    DoyleG Member+

    CanPL
    Canada
    Jan 11, 2002
    YEG-->YYJ-->YWG-->YYB
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The thing is that the Dems basically run WA on most levels now after this election. At the state level, they managed to get back control of the state senate and the Dems now have control of the Lt. Gov office (the new guy is of Iranian background, and has been blind since he was 8). The GOP were guaranteed once congressional seat thanks the the jungle primary system (similar happened in another district where a Bernie supporter got elected).

    Murray had no trouble getting re-elected, and she's rode in on Bill's coat tails. Cantwell has been Senator for 15 years and has little to battle for. If one gets about 65% in King Co, they only need a basic majority in the rest of the Puget Sound to ensure that they are elected. The only County that Hillary won east of the Cascades was Whitman (WSU Country).

    The bigger talk in this election were the local initiatives such as ST3 (Transit funding in King Co.) and state initiatives on increased min wage (likely to pass) and a proposed carbon tax (odds on defeat).
     
  20. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So are you saying that Democrats can't do to working class voters what Republicans do to blacks and hispanics? I couldn't agree more.
     
  21. roadkit

    roadkit Greetings from the Fringe of Obscurity

    Jul 2, 2003
    Fornax Cluster
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You can't discount the impact of celebrity endorsers on this election. The Chachi Effect is real:
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    His final law bomb.
     
  23. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Well, the Comey leak effect, maybe? And the "It's rigged! They couldn't possibly have read all those emails" argument worked on one person I know.

    I believe I mentioned the guy I know who went to the first Trump rally and rejected him on the grounds that we are NOT, under any circumstances, bringing back coal mining to NE PA: He voted for Trump. He thought the email thing was proof that the Clinton machine rigged this thing.

    He's a retired math professor, and at one time was the chair of his university's Math and Computer Science department.
     
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  24. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Or they see her hypocrisy in staying married to a man who has also been accused of having a horrible attitude/history with women.
     
  25. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Why are we talking about Melania? She's not yet a public figure.
     
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