Americanistas Crisis Center

You have won the battle but not the war

we still have a better chance of qualifying to La Liguilla than you cabras


# Equipo JJ JG JE JP GF GC DIF PTS
1 Tigres 17 11 3 3 35 17 18 36
2 Pumas 17 10 4 3 31 21 10 34
3 Pachuca 17 8 6 3 25 18 7 30
4 Tecos 17 9 3 5 27 22 5 30
5 Santos 17 7 6 4 37 26 11 27
6 Atlante 17 7 6 4 28 19 9 27
7 Necaxa 17 6 8 3 21 17 4 26
8 América 17 7 4 6 30 24 6 25
9 Toluca 17 7 3 7 26 21 5 24
10 Cruz Azul 17 6 6 5 23 25 -2 24
11 Morelia 17 7 3 7 23 26 -3 24
12 Chivas 17 7 2 8 27 27 0 23
13 Monterrey 17 5 7 5 29 27 2 22
14 Irapuato 17 6 4 7 23 30 -7 22
15 Veracruz 17 6 3 8 30 36 -6 21
16 Jaguares 17 5 4 8 20 33 -13 19
17 Atlas 17 5 3 9 28 30 -2 18
18 Puebla 17 4 5 8 21 26 -5 17
19 San Luis 17 2 5 10 19 32 -13 11
20 Gallos Blancos 17 1 3 13 16 42 -26 6

Hope you have a nice offseason

 

Re: You have won the battle but not the war

But i can smack both, Pollos & Cabras... And Conejos too

 

Re: You have won the battle but not the war

It will make it that much sweeter when you guys blow it. Boy the view from 4th place sure is sweet.

 

My Counselor

My counselor...................



I didn't pass the metrosexual quiz.
VS.......Can your sister take me shopping after she gets off of me?

 

luagh it up..

i just find it ironic that Chivas is in worst shape and you thinkyou jst won the championship..

here is some food for the mind VS

even if Chivas wins both of thier games... it is not guaranteed that they will qualify for at least a reclassification game. On the other hand, if America wins they are assured that.

It doesnt surprise me the amount of feeble minds that plague MFL fans and some of the press.

Point 1. Toluca is a good team but is having a mediocre season at best, but one game against America that they win.. they are considered the best team?

Point 2. An America-Tigres game that was one side througout the whole match and a bad call which if you look at the replay was hard to determine if it was because of the richocet, but a legit goal that wasnt counted.. and people cry corruption and favortism towards America. Even Tigres pres said that if it was a close game I might be mad but we didnt do anything to win the game. A clear offsides with no type of richochets or anything and the press hardly says a word.

Point 3. America-Chivas is not the superclasico you chivas fans like to think it is. Not when both teams are measured differently. America can lose 6-0 and the press has a field day and probabaly will for months.. but a Chivas team can lose 7-1.. is talked about for a day or 2 and not really given a lot of press.. Why is that? America losins 2 games at home is disastrous but a Chivas losing 5 games at home is not considered disastrous?


I concur with many soccer analyst in Mexico that this clasico is diminishing.

I think it was impaled that said in another thread that is is losing value... it is.. but not because of what he claims (boring games).. its because both teams are measured by 2 completely different standards..

in all fairness, i reall dont care who we beat or lose to, as long as America makes it to the liguilla. I think its time other teams do that as well... rather than have as thier number one priority to beat America.. just to save a season or save a job.

But.. regardless if Chivas makes it to the playoffs, thier season is a sucesss... they beat America..

It s funny and thats why i think there are too many feeble minds..

you have one team that is measured in championships and wins & the rest are measured in beating that one team...

when there is another team that is measured by our same standards.. then there will be a "real" super clasico. until then, we are just respecting grandpas clasico.

congrats on saving your season you deserve it

 

Rafa

America, However.........has been competitive for quite some time and they will continue to be competitive as long as Televisa plays treasurer.

Remember........we are not out of La Liguilla and anything can happen.

 

LOL, The top 2 teams in Mexico won't make the Liguilla. In my opinion that is an embarrasment to their fans.

 

Weak post RDl. If the clasico is measure by both teams being champions then you are right it is not a clasico.

To what extent is the measurement of a clasico is rather subjective. It is different for some people than it is for others.

For those who respect it because of nostalgia and remembering those family gathering as a kid, i respect that.

But football speaking, it is not a clasico.

Dont intepret something i never implied. Never did I say they both had to be champions. THe point is both are measured differently. Its a weak post because of your misinterpretation. Boca went almost 12 years without winning a title, but the fact remained that both teams were still measured by the same account

Whether is it a clasico that originated from social-economical or athletic reasons, the current America-Chivas "clasico" has lost value

I mean between Chivas and America they have what two champions in the last 13 years.

Boca went 12 years without being champions during the early 80s and into the early 90s.

Clearley both the teams are underachievers and don't give me this that America has made the playoffs more often.

Its real easy to look at stats and see this

League Titles:
Guadalajara 10 [8]
América 9 [6]
Cruz Azul 8 [6]
Toluca 7 [4]
León 5 [5]

Cup Titles:
León 5 [4]
América 5 [3]
Puebla 4 [2]
Atlas 4 [1]
Necaxa 3 [0]
Guadalajara 2 [5]

Its real easy for some one that does not know alot about the MFL or its history to say, "Not one team had dominated the league because they are so close."

You may say dont say anything about America having the most wins or cups or liguilla appearances or have led the standings the most. WHY? Is it that black and white to you?

The greatest MFL team EVER was the 82/83 America squad. THey were head above the rest. but did not win the liguilla.

LEts get this straight. THe liguilla has its discrepencies and at times falsely determines the champion. The liguilla is a nice tournament full of passion But it is nothing more than a money maker. In essence its like a World Cup Tournament. Put the liguilla in Argentina (which they have thought about doing) and i guarantee that Boca and River wont have as many titles to thier name. You may see Lanus, Racing, etc with a title here and there ala Morelia, Pachuca, Santos. And what you will see is Lanus and Racing with a bit more money to spend because of the liguilla. But i am certain that team like Boca, River would finish most of the time 1st in the table.

Now, dont go misinterpret and say that the Liguilla is WC. The point I am saying is that it has more discrepencies than we like to believe. And sure its awsome when your team wins it. But.. I respect consistancy a hell of a lot more than one good day in the sun.

In Mexico, many members of the press dont accept Turkey being the 3rd best team in the world (according to the WC). WHY? They want to believe that place belongs to the Argentinas ,Italys, etc. WHY?

Its those same "come*#*#*#*#*#*#s" and "rascaculos" that will take merit away from Turkey because they got there by defualt, but will praise a team like Morelia, Santos, Toluca, Pachuca who got in by defualt? DOnt you see the hipocrasy there? Its like saying, Turkey got there because other good teams were eliminated and most importantly are not consistant. But will say although America is consistatly in 1st place or fighting for 1st place, Santos is the 2nd best team because they reached the finals.

I respect consistancy a lot more than i do a good day in the sun. If by some miracle Mexico ever did win the WC finals, i know many people wouldnt accept it.. and that would be fine. hell, I would even acknowledge that they were not the best team in the world. If they started to do it more conistantly or were always a contender.. then maybe



Bills went to 4 super bowls and their losers Braves have won like 12 straight division titles but they only won one World Series.

I find that a weak arguement.

Do you know how hard it is to remain consistant through a long period of time?? especially in baseball.

I dont care too much for one hit wonders like Marlins, Diamondbacks, Angels, etc. I would rather watch the braves or the bills (in thier respective time) because week in and week out they played great. It didnt suprise me that Baseball added a wildcard.

Like I said before Chivas and America both suck.

The Colombian league in a way is like the Mexican. The have a final round to determine the league champ. But why do many consider America de Cali the best in Colombia even though they dont have the most titles?

You can say 13 years or what ever else you want to say... but there is a reason they love to hate America and there is a reason why they measure America on other things.

 

I got to agree. I defintely looked like a superclasico to the fans of America.

I give it the respect it deserves, but has it lost face value? Yeah.

Nobody here has questioned the clasico.

Thats not entirely true, many members of the press and fans themselves question it.

Even if you were to take a poll that includes every MFL fan in the world and the poll came out where 70% in favor of it being a clasico... dont you think that 30% is way too many? And reent polls by different media sources have performed then are they are not even close to being unanimous. hat does that say.

Its basically because one is the most popular team in the country (chivas) and one is the most powerful and richest with the backing of Televisa.

this whole business about being the richest and having the most money is not true anymore in the sense that no other team can compete. Look at some other clubs and see who backs them up.. and they are backed up by richer corporations than Grupo Televisa. You will see the Salinas, the slims, the femsas, etc

 

Re: rdl

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36 hours later....



It's NOT a Clasico
It's NOT a Clasico
It's NOT a Clasico
it is Nooooooot
a Classssicooooo !!!

 

The short season argument doesn't matter because that is how the league is set up. Look at it this way the short season is a welfare system for the small clubs like RDL says then the Pre- libertadores is welfare for the big clubs.

Look at the 82/83 Season. look at the advantge America had. They were a scoring machine. Puebla won the liguilla. I sure as hell wouldnt want Puebla representing in the Copa Libertadores.

So if America or Toluca are benefited because of points, its beacuse they have been consistant the past couple years.

DOnt get me wrong, America has won the Liguilla becuase of the discrepencies the Liguilla has, but how many times have they led? How many times were they in the hunt?

When the liguilla just had the best 4 teams duking it out, those were some LIGUILLAS. You had the best of the best in there. But when you have the number 12 get in there... sure it makes a nice story but at what and who's exepense?

Since if America fails to make the playoff for the second straight season no way in hell do they deserve a shot to play in the Copa Libertadores.

So lets say America misses the playoffs 2 years in a row, and we have Cruz Azul or what ever team with lesser points in the liguilla? Does that team who does not have the merit deserve a shot because of a discrepency?

THe fact that a Cruz Azul can get in with 24 points and you have an America with 29 and Santos with 30 points says something. Things have to change.

Im all for Billy Alavarez's proposal of going back to the longer season. But FMF looks at dollar bills first and then worries about performance.

Allright you and Various changed my mind America and Chivas don't suck.

I really dont care if you think they suck or not, but just showing you something to have a better base your judgement




Season 1959-60
1.- Guadalajara 26 17 4 5 52 37 1.41 38
2.- America 26 14 6 6 38 29 1.31 34
3.- Atlas 26 11 9 6 43 33 1.30 31
4.- Leon 26 12 6 8 51 36 1.42 30

Season 1960-61
1.- Guadalajara 26 17 5 4 53 29 1.83 39
2.- Oro 26 14 4 8 37 24 1.54 32
3.- Atlas 26 11 7 8 38 31 1.26 29
4.- Necaxa 26 9 11 6 35 34 1.03 29

Season 1961-62
1.- Guadalajara 26 20 1 5 58 17 3.41 41
2.- America 26 14 6 6 51 31 1.65 34
3.- Toluca 26 15 4 7 58 37 1.57 34
4.- Oro 26 13 5 8 41 32 1.28 31

Season 1962-63
1.- Oro 26 15 6 5 55 35 1.57 36
2.- Guadalajara 26 12 11 3 39 25 1.56 35
3.- America 26 11 9 6 42 24 1.75 31
4.- Atlas 26 11 9 6 38 31 1.23 31

Season 1963-64
1.- Guadalajara 26 16 5 5 43 25 1.72 37
2.- America 26 11 11 4 46 24 1.92 33
3.- Monterrey 26 12 8 6 40 26 1.54 32
4.- Irapuato 26 12 8 6 40 35 1.14 32

Season 1964-65
1.- Guadalajara 30 15 10 5 47 29 1.62 40
2.- Oro 30 16 6 8 60 40 1.50 38
3.- Monterrey 30 17 3 10 45 27 1.67 37
4.- America 30 10 14 6 36 23 1.57 34

Season 1965-66
1.- America 30 18 6 6 56 28 2.00 42
2.- Atlas 30 17 6 7 55 31 1.77 40
2.- Guadalajara 30 17 6 7 47 33 1.42 40
4.- Monterrey 30 13 7 10 41 37 1.11 33

Season 1966-67
1.- Toluca 30 17 7 6 48 24 2.00 41
2.- America 30 14 11 5 46 29 1.59 39
3.- Guadalajara 30 13 9 8 36 28 1.29 35
4.- Necaxa 30 11 12 7 48 36 1.33 34

Season 1967-68
1.- Toluca 30 18 8 4 56 28 2.00 44
2.- U.N.A.M. 30 16 8 6 46 31 1.48 40
3.- Veracruz 30 15 9 6 46 28 1.64 39
4.- Necaxa 30 14 8 8 38 28 1.35 36

Season 1968-69
1.- Cruz Azul 30 18 8 4 49 26 1.88 44
2.- Guadalajara 30 14 10 6 45 30 1.50 38
3.- Toluca 30 13 8 9 43 30 1.43 34
4.- U.N.A.M. 30 13 8 9 50 42 1.19 34

Season 1969-70
1.- Guadalajara 30 18 9 3 54 24 2.25 45
2.- Cruz Azul 30 14 11 5 40 19 2.11 39
3.- Veracruz 30 16 7 7 47 36 1.31 39
4.- Toluca 30 13 7 10 46 35 1.31 33

Mexico 1970
1.- Toluca 14 7 3 4 21 12 1.75 17
2.- Torreon 14 5 7 2 22 16 1.38 17
3.- Pachuca 14 6 4 4 15 9 1.67 16
4.- Monterrey 14 5 6 3 16 21 0.76 16

Season 1970-71
1.- America 34 17 10 7 56 33 1.70 44
2.- Toluca 34 14 15 5 38 21 1.81 43
3.- Monterrey 34 15 10 9 46 37 1.24 40
4.- Jalisco 34 12 14 8 35 29 1.21 38

Season 1971-72
1.- Cruz Azul 34 22 7 5 65 36 1.81 51
2.- America 34 20 8 6 70 35 2.00 48
3.- Monterrey 34 14 12 8 41 37 1.11 40
4.- Jalisco 34 15 9 10 57 48 1.19 39

Season 1972-73
1.- Cruz Azul 34 19 8 7 60 37 1.62 46
2.- Leon 34 18 8 8 59 34 1.74 44
3.- Atlas 34 18 8 8 63 38 1.66 44
4.- America 34 13 16 5 52 33 1.58 42

Season 1973-74
1.- Cruz Azul 34 18 13 3 69 35 1.97 49
2.- Monterrey 34 22 4 8 65 36 1.81 48
3.- Atl. Español 34 15 11 8 66 47 1.40 41
4.- Puebla 34 13 14 7 57 40 1.42 40

Season 1974-75
1.- Leon 38 21 9 8 70 50 1.40 51
2.- Toluca 38 19 12 7 54 32 1.69 50
3.- Cruz Azul 38 17 15 6 71 43 1.65 49
4.- Atl. Español 38 20 7 11 62 39 1.59 47

Season 1975-76
1.- America 38 23 7 8 62 40 1.55 53
2.- U.N.A.M. 38 18 13 7 67 40 1.68 49
3.- Leon 38 17 12 9 57 38 1.50 46
4.- Cruz Azul 38 15 14 9 60 38 1.58 44

Season 1976-77
1.- U.N.A.M. 38 19 12 7 67 43 1.56 50
2.- America 38 16 18 4 56 38 1.47 50
3.- U. de Guad. 38 18 10 10 53 39 1.36 46
4.- Cruz Azul 38 17 12 9 51 38 1.34 46

Season 1977-78
1.- America 38 19 13 6 55 38 1.45 51
2.- U.N.A.M. 38 20 8 10 81 53 1.53 48
3.- Toluca 38 20 7 11 55 37 1.49 47
4.- U.A.G. 38 17 12 9 73 46 1.59 46

Season 1978-79
1.- Cruz Azul 38 19 13 6 70 32 2.19 51
2.- U.A.N.L. 38 17 14 7 58 46 1.26 48
3.- Toluca 38 19 7 12 59 43 1.37 45
4.- U.N.A.M. 38 17 11 10 77 57 1.35 45

Season 1979-80
1.- America 38 23 11 4 71 37 1.92 57
2.- Cruz Azul 38 20 15 3 67 34 1.97 55
3.- Atlante 38 20 9 9 70 40 1.75 49
4.- U.N.A.M. 38 17 12 9 68 55 1.24 46

Season 1980-81
1.- U.A.G. 38 19 13 6 70 49 1.43 51
2.- U.N.A.M. 38 19 11 8 79 53 1.49 49
3.- Guadalajara 38 15 13 10 53 41 1.29 43
4.- Cruz Azul 38 14 14 10 45 36 1.25 42

Season 1981-82
1.- Atlante 38 21 11 6 62 31 2.00 53
2.- America 38 16 13 9 54 31 1.74 45
3.- Zacatepec 38 14 17 7 44 29 1.52 45
4. U.A.N.L. 38 16 12 10 58 43 1.35 44

Season 1982-83
1.- America 38 26 9 3 69 27 2.56 61
2.- Atlante 38 18 11 9 66 46 1.43 47
3.- Puebla 38 15 15 8 53 39 1.36 45
4.- Toluca 38 17 10 11 62 43 1.44 44

Season 1983-84
1.- America 38 18 15 5 54 30 1.80 51
2.- U.N.A.M. 38 17 14 7 65 40 1.62 48
3.- Atlante 38 17 13 8 61 43 1.42 47
4.- Guadalajara 38 15 16 7 56 40 1.40 46

Season 1984-85
1.- U.N.A.M. 38 25 5 8 71 38 +33 55
2.- U. de Guad 38 16 15 7 60 44 +16 47
3.- America 38 17 12 9 53 40 +13 46
4.- Guadalajara 38 16 13 9 49 30 +19 45

Season 1985-86
1.- Puebla 8 5 3 0 21 8 +13 13
2.- America 8 5 2 1 17 8 +9 12
3- Atlante 8 4 3 1 11 7 +4 11
4.- Cruz Azul 8 4 3 1 7 4 +3 11

Mexico-86
1.- Monterrey 18 13 3 2 43 18 +25 29
2.- Tampico/Madero 18 11 2 5 45 25 +20 24
3.- America 18 5 11 2 21 14 +7 21
4.- Cruz Azul 18 8 5 5 24 18 +6 21

Season 1986-87
1.- Guadalajara 40 21 13 6 63 28 +35 55
2.- Cruz Azul 40 19 16 5 53 32 +21 54
3.- America 40 18 16 6 60 33 +27 52
4.- Atletico Morelia 40 18 11 11 52 47 +5 47

Season 1987-88
1.- America 38 24 7 7 86 39 +47 55
2.- U. de Guad 38 20 10 8 77 48 +29 50
3.- Guadalajara 38 17 12 9 54 35 +19 46
4.- U.A.G. 38 18 10 10 59 41 +18 46

Season 1988-89
1.- Puebla 38 20 13 5 73 31 +42 53
2.- TampicoMadero 38 20 7 11 87 56 +31 47
3.- Guadalajara 38 19 9 10 66 43 +23 47
4.- America 38 17 9 12 58 39 +19 43

Season 1989-90
1.- America 38 16 16 6 70 45 +25 48
2.- U.N.A.M. 38 15 16 7 58 38 +20 46
3.- Puebla 38 17 12 9 57 42 +15 46
4.- Monterrey 38 15 12 11 57 51 +6 42

Season 1990-91
1.- U.N.A.M. 38 25 5 8 67 30 +37 55
2.- Monterrey 38 19 9 10 62 42 +20 47
3.- Cruz Azul 38 15 15 8 47 38 +9 45
4.- America 38 15 13 10 61 53 +8 43

Season 1991-92
1.- Atlante 38 19 12 7 65 47 +18 50
2.- Necaxa 38 16 14 8 67 46 +21 46
3.- Guadalajara 38 13 19 6 41 31 +10 45
4.- Leon 38 15 15 8 47 38 +9 45

Season 1992-93
1.- Necaxa 38 23 8 7 76 43 +33 54
2.- Leon 38 17 13 8 64 38 +26 47
3.- America 38 18 11 9 51 46 +5 47
4.- Monterrey 38 15 15 8 51 39 +12 45

Season 1993-94
1.- U.A.G. 38 17 17 4 49 26 +23 51
2.- Cruz Azul 38 18 12 8 62 33 +29 48
3.- Toluca 38 18 10 10 54 32 +22 46
4.- Santos 38 16 13 9 58 56 +2 45

Season 1994-95
1.- Guadalajara 36 22 8 6 70 35 +35 52
2.- America 36 19 13 4 88 46 +42 51
3.- Cruz Azul 36 20 8 8 91 45 +46 48
4.- Necaxa 36 16 14 6 69 38 +31 46

Season 1995-96
1.- Cruz Azul 34 14 14 6 61 38 +23 56
2.- Necaxa 34 15 10 9 58 41 +17 55
3.- Atlas 34 14 11 9 51 45 +6 53
4.- Atletico Celaya 34 14 10 10 49 46 +3 52

After this season, the shorter seasons were implemented. Since the inauguration of the shorter season, not one champion has led the standings. When the liguilla was implemneted in 1970, many times the liguilla champ led the standings.

Look at America, Cruz Azul, Pumas in the period shown above.

 

Season 1982-83
1.- America 38 26 9 3 69 27 2.56 61
2.- Atlante 38 18 11 9 66 46 1.43 47
3.- Puebla 38 15 15 8 53 39 1.36 45
4.- Toluca 38 17 10 11 62 43 1.44 44

26 wins
9 ties
3 losses
69 goals in favor
27 goals against
61 points

Puebla are considered league champs with 45 points

if that is not welfare, i dont know what is.

It has happened in the past that a team has more than 7-10 points over another team, and that team is out of the liguilla?

Isnt the regular season suppose to determine who the best is in the league?

The liguilla is basically a cup, with Mexico's best clubs.. and sometimes the best are not represented in the liguilla

Leon, Atlante, and Necaxa come to mind in the early 90's as smaller clubs that won the league without the short seasons taking effect.

Aside from not having the best team sometimes, the biggest drawback the shorter season has is that TOO many club owners/GMs have knee jerk reactions when a team is doing bad because time is of the essence. They dont have enough time to fully prepare. Is it a coincidence that the number of prefabricated goals has decreased since the shorter season was implented? The give and goes, back door passes, etc all those plays that generated goals have gone down. That is why those smaller clubs won because they had time to work. the 93 Tecos team was a fun team to watch and im not a big fan of vucetich.

(OFF TOPIC: could it be that the shorter season is the reason (or part of) we are not finding the no. 9 and 10 Lavolpe is asking for? Could it be that they dont have enough time?)

Billy Alvarez is currently drawing up a proposal to go back to the traditional format. He called the current format obsolete. And there is some truth to it. When the shorter season was finalized, we didnt have pre/pre, pre, and Libertadores to worry about.

I dont think the MFL will ever go back to the longer season because it is not financially beneficial to many club owners. The teams that have pushed for it will get the same treatment the FMF gets in Concacaf meetings, the minnows out vote us.

Can a shorter season work? YES it can if done properly. Reduction of clubs in the top flight, eliminate reclassification games, keep the current format of relegation, reduce (not eliminate) the number of friendlies (at least make it worth your while and schedule against top clubs from South and Europe and not teams inferior than your). I know I have been against the current relegation format, but there is no reason for a club owner to panic when relegation is not done in the tradiitional way. The current format gives you leeway, but for some odd reason.. some small clubs dont take advantage of it.