Good. Thanks. And sorry-- didn't realize that sort of dynamite was lying around here, or I wouldn't have made that particular crack either.
I have to say, teams like Chicago can learn from Cleveland's example. The Browns stuck to their board, made sound, smart choices, and remained patient resisting the temptation to reach for or trade up for a QB. As a result, they got Kizer, a prospect who IMO is at least on a similar level to Trubisky, in the 2nd round as opposed to 2nd overall. It allows them the possibility and flexibility of moving forward with Kizer without investing so much in him that they can't potentially draft Darnold or Rosen in the 1st next year. Smart draft management by the Browns, and they'll probably reap serious benefits from it.
So on another forum I got absolutely CHEWED OUT because I had the audacity, the sheer gall, to not rank Andrew Luck as a top ten QB. These people came at me like I just said something on the same level of stupid as "Brady is a system QB and any decent QB could do what he does in Belichick's system". So I ask you; am I being stupid by failing to rank Luck top ten? Am I living in crazy town when I do that? If so, I'd love to hear an argument for why that doesn't necessarily revolve around "Luck's supporting cast iz so awful he isn't accountable for when he plays bad". @Mengão86 @Harambe Alvinegro @taosjohn I feel like the Luck hype train as a prospect was so powerful it follows him years after his college career was long over. He's good, but so good that not placing him over guys like Carr, Newton, and Rivers is disrespectful? I don't think so.
Well let's see- I'd put him behind-- in no particular order--Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Rivers, Rothlisberger,, closely bunched with Cousins, Ryan, Carr, Newton, Stafford, and Eli. and I guess ahead of Smith and Flacco, and I have no real idea what to do with Palmer; so I guess I have more like a top sixteen or a top six, and he's in one and out of the other. If I squint and hold my breath I guess I can rank him ahead of Cousins, Carr, Stafford, Smith, Palmer, Ryan, and Flacco, so yeah, I'd have him in the top ten. And obviously my opinion is way ahead of yours-- my mom said so. So neener neener
I don't have an issue with it, but I was a huge Luck fan while he was in college and still am. I was really pissed that the Colts didn't lose an extra game that year because we would have been in position to take Luck rather than RGIII. I agree that he has fallen slightly below expectations on his own regard. But you can't ignore the supporting cast he has around him, minus the WRs. We've seen countless examples of what a good o-line and running game can do for you. A good defense can turn you into a winner. I think what happens with QB rankings is that other than being subjective, people "calculate" their rankings based off different factors, such as potential. Based off what Luck has done to date, he's a borderline top 10 QB -- I agree Rivers, Carr and Newton should be ahead of him in that regard. But if you look at what has to work with and what he can potentially do with a few upgrades, he easily enters the top 10 conversation IMO. His 2014 and 2016 seasons were pretty good.
Fair enough. I tried to make my rankings based mostly off a mix of past pedigree and current performance, not really trying to do a ton of projection. For the record this was my top ten: 1. Tom Brady 2. Aaron Rodgers 3. Ben Roethlisberger 4. Derek Carr 5. Drew Brees 6. Russell Wilson 7. Phillip Rivers 8. Matt Ryan 9. Cam Newton 10. Marcus Mariota Marcus made it in by the skin of his teeth over Luck and Stafford. Fair enough. But you wouldn't say I don't know football because I ranked Ryan, Carr, and Mariota over him, right?
Out of curiosity, what is the reasoning for having Mariota over either of those two? I think Ryan is only in the top 10 from last year alone, because other than that, he's been far more underwhelming with better weapons around him. For fantasy this year, I wouldn't even touch his inflated price because I have my doubts he comes close to last year's production.
Mariota is over Stafford and Luck because he's been a bit better at protecting the football primarily. While he has a great offensive line and running game, he doesn't have as many weapons compared to Luck and Stafford. I also think his mobility adds a bit more oomph to his game. Ryan is in the top ten in large part due to last year, yes. But you could make the argument that he's been top ten for a fair amount of his career, so it's not just last year. I'm not going to touch Ryan again either, I agree that's smart.
I have probably argued with an occasional conclusion of yours, but it wasn't because you don't pay attention and remember stuff. Nobody knows as much football as they think they do, and to borrow from baseball, it's what you learn after you know it all that counts. Your opinion is as valid as anybody's but mine, and your reasoning is as sound as anybody's but mine-- and most importantly mine doesn't get improved by demeaning yours. I suppose our correspondent in P&CE with the hammer and sickle has established that one actually can demean one's own to the point that it is dismissable: but ranking Luck below Mariota isn't even an intellectual venial sin that I can see, certainly not a mortal one. But really, don't you think Mariota needs a little more time to be sure he's the real thing? I mean Brees established last year that he isn't yet a puddin', but I'm not yet absolutely sure that Mariota's established that he's not a fake, nor Winston neither. Can you tell it's baseball season? Come to think of it Flynn and Blake both did some quarterbackin' too...
To summarize: McCloughan had an impact on Washington's draft after being fired... and probably helped two other teams draft better.— Michael Silver (@MikeSilver) May 2, 2017 Didn't need anyone from the media to bring this up as the draft was quite evident. A bunch of physical football players who love playing football (Allen, Anderson, Perine, Roullier) along with some gambles on injured players and physical specimens (Moreau and Davis). Anyways, I still wish we drafted some sort of physical freak on defense. We got a bunch of high motor types that might be lacking physically. Zach Brown is arguably the best athlete on our defense.
Lions are apparently in the hunt for Legarrette Blount with the Giants. I think Quinn kind of has to go big with this negotiation because he decided not to draft a RB, which IMO was dumb when he had Foreman sitting right there with his 3rd rounder when he decided to trade down. But that makes Blount or Michael or someone a necessity at this point because I don't trust Abdullah to stay healthy when carrying the full load, Riddick isn't a good runner, and Zenner/Washington are JAGs at best. This is also my "alternative draft" for the Lions posted for future reference, kind of "what would Sammer do at this pick" based on who I wanted in the moment: 1st: Rueben Foster 2nd: Raekwon McMillian 3rd: Screw the trade down and pick D'Onta Foreman 4th: George Kittle 5th: Malachi Dupre 6th: Jerod Evans 7th: Noah Brown
McShay's early 2018 mock draft 1. Cleveland Browns Sam Darnold, QB, USC* Watching WR JuJu Smith-Schuster in preparation for the 2017 draft, it was hard not to notice Darnold. He has the mental makeup, poise and arm strength you look for in an NFL quarterback. 2. San Francisco 49ers Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming* Allen is very physically gifted, but he needs to improve his decision-making and be a little more consistent with his footwork. He has good mobility and the arm strength to make any throw in the book. 3. New York Jets Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA* Rosen is coming off a shoulder injury that knocked him out of his team's final six games last season. He has raw talent but needs to improve his accuracy; he has a 59.7 career completion rate. 4. Cleveland Browns* Christian Wilkins, DL, Clemson* Wilkins finished second on Clemson with 13 tackles for loss in 2016, just behind Carlos Watkins, who had 13.5. Wilkins is very disruptive, racking up 10 pass breakups and five QB hurries last season. *Acquired in a trade with the Texans 5. Minnesota Vikings Calvin Ridley, WR, Alabama* The No. 1-ranked WR recruit in 2015, Ridley has accounted for 161 catches in his two seasons in Tuscaloosa. That's 28.4 percent of the team's total in that span. 6. Denver Broncos Malik Jefferson, LB, Texas* Jefferson has started 18 games in his first two seasons with Texas. He has 15.5 tackles for loss in his career and ranked third on the team with 42 solo tackles in 2016. 7. Indianapolis Colts Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State* Barkley had nearly 1,900 total yards in his true sophomore season at Penn State. His 22 total touchdowns ranked first among all Power 5 running backs last season. 8. Buffalo Bills Derwin James, S, Florida State* Listed at 6-foot-3 and 211 pounds, James has great size. He showed his potential as a true freshman by racking up a team-high 52 solo tackles, 9.5 tackles for loss, four pass breakups and two forced fumbles. James missed all but two games in 2016 after tearing his meniscus versus Charleston Southern. 9. New Orleans Saints Harold Landry, DE, Boston College Landry gets a lot of much-deserved pub for his FBS-leading 16.5 sacks, but don't overlook his seven forced fumbles, six QB hurries and 22 total tackles for loss. That's elite all-around production. His game against Florida State, in which he had four tackles for loss and a forced fumble, really stood out. 10. Miami Dolphins Minkah Fitzpatrick, DB, Alabama* Fitzpatrick has shown great ball production in his young career. As a true freshman, he had 11 pass breakups and two interceptions; last season, he led the Crimson Tide with six interceptions and added seven pass breakups. Defensive back looks like an early need for Miami. 11. Tampa Bay Buccaneers Arden Key, DE, LSU* I'm not completely sold on Key. He shows flashes on tape (12 sacks in 2016) but needs to be more consistent. Scouts will dig deep on why Key took a leave of absence from the team earlier this year. 12. Chicago Bears Tarvarus McFadden, CB, Florida State* Listed at 6-foot-2, 198 pounds, McFadden is another big Florida State DB. He tied for the FBS lead with eight interceptions in 2016, an impressive feat in his first season as a full-time starter. 13. Washington Redskins Christian Kirk, WR, Texas A&M* The Redskins could be in the market for a wide receiver after signing Terrelle Pryor Sr. to a one-year deal. Kirk can absolutely fly. He led the Aggies in catches for the second season in a row and added three punt-return TDs to his résumé in 2016. 14. Philadelphia Eagles Bo Scarbrough, RB, Alabama* If Scarbrough stays healthy, he could be a top-15 pick. He was the best player on the field against Washington and Clemson (before getting hurt) in the College Football Playoff. At 6-foot-2 and 228 pounds, Scarbrough is a load to bring down. 15. Jacksonville Jaguars Derrick Nnadi, DT, Florida State At 312 pounds, Nnadi is a disruptive force along the interior D-line who totaled 10.5 tackles for loss last season. He was particularly impressive against Clemson, with one sack, two total tackles for loss and one pass breakup. 16. Cincinnati Bengals Maurice Hurst, DT, Michigan Hurst has started just four games at Michigan, but I love what I've seen on tape so far. He was frequently Michigan's best defensive lineman during the games I studied. And remember: That group just had three D-linemen selected in the 2017 draft. 17. Los Angeles Rams Josh Sweat, DE/OLB, Florida State* An edge rusher with lots of intriguing tools, Sweat struggled early last season with a knee injury, but he finished with 4.5 sacks in his final three games. He should have a big year. 18. Los Angeles Chargers Da'Shawn Hand, DT, Alabama A highly ranked recruit in 2014, Hand should get more playing time in 2017, after Alabama lost four players from its dominant front seven to the NFL draft. 19. Detroit Lions Bradley Chubb, DE, North Carolina State Chubb's 21.5 tackles for loss last season (including 10 sacks) tied for sixth nationally last season. He also had seven QB hurries. 20. New York Giants Clelin Ferrell, DE, Clemson* At 6-foot-5 and 265 pounds, Ferrell has ideal size, and he made an immediate impact for the Tigers in his first season on the field. His 12.5 tackles for loss tied for third overall on Clemson's defense. 21. Baltimore Ravens Antonio Callaway, WR, Florida* Callaway comes with character concerns -- he was accused of sexual assault and admitted to using drugs -- but he's freakishly talented. I'm interested to see how he handles himself both on and off the field this season. 22. Buffalo Bills* Tyquan Lewis, DE, Ohio State Lewis (6-foot-4, 265 pounds) has been a consistent performer for the Buckeyes, leading the team with eight sacks in each of the past two seasons. *Acquired in a trade with the Chiefs 23. Arizona Cardinals Mike McGlinchey, OT, Notre Dame The Cardinals will probably be in the QB market, but I'm not comfortable putting a name here that I'll regret three weeks from now, when I actually have time to watch the tape (as was the case with Mitch Leidner last year). McGlinchey had a chance to be a first-rounder this season, but he opted to return to school. 24. Atlanta Falcons Courtland Sutton, WR, SMU* Listed at 6-foot-4, 210 pounds, Sutton has ideal size. He has averaged nearly 17 yards per catch and scored 19 touchdowns the past two seasons. 25. Tennessee Titans Cameron Smith, ILB, USC* As a true freshman in 2015, Smith led the Trojans in solo tackles despite missing the final four games of the season because of a knee injury. He bounced back from the injury in 2016, showing more playmaking ability, including seven tackles for loss and again leading the team in solo takedowns with 45. 26. Carolina Panthers Sam Hubbard, DE, Ohio State* Hubbard, who is 6-foot-5, 265 pounds, was disruptive in his first season as a full-time starter, posting eight tackles for loss and four QB hurries. 27. Oakland Raiders Derrius Guice, RB, LSU* Guice popped while filling in for an injured Leonard Fournette last season, averaging 7.58 yards per carry (the third-highest among FBS running backs with at least 175 carries). He scored a TD once every 12 carries. 28. Dallas Cowboys Vita Vea, DT, Washington* At 332 pounds, Vea is a massive body to move in the middle of the defensive line. He flashed some pass-rushing potential last season, with five sacks. 29. Green Bay Packers Deon Cain, WR, Clemson* Listed at 6-foot-1 and 210 pounds, Cain is a true big-play threat. He averaged 19 yards per catch last season for the Tigers. He should see more targets in 2017 with Mike Williams no longer in town. 30. Pittsburgh Steelers Iman Marshall, CB, USC* Marshall has showed a promising skill set, starting 25 of 27 possible games in two seasons at USC. He has six interceptions and 17 pass breakups in that time. 31. Seattle Seahawks Orlando Brown, OT, Oklahoma* Brown is the son of Orlando Brown, who played nine NFL seasons and died in 2011. Like his dad, Brown is a mammoth left tackle prospect, listed at 6-foot-8, 360 pounds. He has started all 26 games for the Sooners the past two seasons. 32. New England Patriots Da'Ron Payne, DL, Alabama At 6-foot-2 and 319 pounds, Payne should get more work in the middle of Alabama's defensive line now that Dalvin Tomlinson is no longer in town. @Catracho_Azul why is McShay hating on your boy Guice? He put 2 RBs ahead of him and way outside the top 5.....
Firstly, who the heck does a mock draft this early? Secondly, I presume McShay is "hating" on Guice because Guice has yet to demonstrate workhorse capabilities as a change-of-pace guy behind Fournette. FWIW, IIRC Alabama players said that they'd rather face Fournette than Guice.
A bunch of "experts" do them nowadays. It's basically an indicator of where players stand as of now more so than where they will be drafted after the end of the season. I'm just poking some fun at Catracho because of his obsession (and overhype) of Guice.
Just seems strange to make a mock of guys next year when the rookies this year haven't played a down of pro football. I haven't seen Guice in real action yet, but his highlight reel looks very impressive. If Catracho, an LSU fan, and Alabama's defence tells me he's the real deal, I can roll with it.
Another mock with Guice going late in the first round, behind 2 RBs. https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/05/02/nfl-mock-draft-top-2018-college-prospects Guice going to your Lions here at #13. Looks like Barkley is regarded as the best RB heading into the season.. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/...e-first-round-including-two-right-at-the-top/
Too early to tell. Idk who he'll test or what the scouts will nitpick with him finally being the starter. For what it's worth, I like Barkley, but my boy Guice gonna make Southside proud.
I never imagined Jay Cutler would remain in football if he retires, much less become a commentator. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but I've set the bar low.
Wade Phillips writes in his new book about an awkward interview he had in Washington three years ago https://t.co/6VtadMwAlC— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) May 5, 2017 Wade kinda ripped Jay here....
I wouldn't hate the pick from what I've heard of Guice. I'm not particularly high on the Lions this year though, so we could be in play for Barkley too.
@Harambe Alvinegro, couple of thoughts: 1. Imma disagree with you on Mahomes to KC. I think Reid and KC is a great fit for Mahomes; he'll sit for a year or two and then come into a situation with Reid who will develop him and his arm will make full use of the potential explosiveness of Hill and Kelce and possibly Maclin. Maybe I'm too high on Mahomes, but I just think he can make plays, and I think he's walking into a great team to be if you're a QB. I don't think the Lynch comparison is sound; I think Mahomes can attack downfield a lot more than Lynch, who saw a lot of bubble screens and short passes. Mahomes' Air Raid was not a good system, but it did test his arm and he did throw downfield a lot. It's probably a bad hill to die on, given the terrible record of the Air Raid, but I just like this kid. 2. I didn't like the Tabor pick, and I know you don't, but I'm just wondering... Josh Norman isn't particularly athletic either and he isn't great in man coverage either, but he creates turnovers, he's quick, he has size, he's physical and he reads the game very well. I see a lot of those same traits in Tabor, and so I'm wondering if you see the comparison, and where Norman could be a model for Teez going forward to potentially be successful?
Does josh Norman run a 4.6? He's stronger than tabor too. Josh Norman reads and baits qbs then closes with quickness and physicality can tabor do it idk. We really won't know anything until preseason but I'd just assume he's average at most plus corners take longer to develop regardless. Why sign Eric berry and pay people like Tamba Ali , derrick Johnson , and Justin Houston kings ransoms to pretty much punt on 2 first rd draft picks ? Alex smith eating like 15-17 mil against the cap and you still give away two draft picks. Which shows they know it will be a long developmental process. So why not rebuild ?? And why get thirsty for a qb in a weak qb class ? Chiefs are going nowhere , btw you see Paxton lynch last year ? Mahomes will probably look like that if he plays this year.
And I made my feelings about Detroits draft pretty well known. there drafts are always vanilla to me. Plus who knows how high an emphasis they place on character and interviews. We've seen some weird things from that organization before. Not the way I would have sailed that ship on draft night.