By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
  1. Dan Loney

    Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 10, 2000
    Cincilluminati
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    Philippines

    American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

    By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
    I detest Plato. If someone had simply replied, "Why would you assume that, Socrates?", his collected works would fit onto a Post-It Note.

    However, the Socratic method – recognizable perhaps to some as catechism – can occasionally be used helpfully to focus thought. So let's try to focus on the question that has roiled Major League Soccer this week:

    The reason I am superior to Plato and Socrates is that, unlike them, I am humble. I will not attempt to claim that my reasoning necessarily speaks for anyone else, let alone the universe, let alone conceptual thought. Plato sucked. Where was I. Oh, yes. I'll ask questions, but I won't pretend you and I will have the same answers.

    This is how I see the issue: I think MLS can, and should, pre-emptively ban Nazis from their games.

    Can MLS ban Nazis from the stadium?

    Oh, citizen. They can ban anyone they please. Forget political speech, we've all read about people getting tossed for bringing banners saying "Fire the coach." They can't ban you for your race, your age, or your gender, but the fine print of every ticket we've ever bought tells us Major League Soccer can give us the bum's rush for next to any or no reason. MLS isn't exactly the only promoter that claims such rights, either. If you'd like to wear that "Snakes on a Plane" shirt you got at Goodwill, complete with famous catchphrase? You would do so entirely on the sufferance of The Man.

    In case you doubt this, here's a helpful Tweet from David Rudin.



    And, in case you still doubt it, for a few hot minutes in the 1990's, American flags were banned at Galaxy games. Allow me to explain. You see, the Rose Bowl had a fairly big general admission section. And while US fans had their feelings hurt by Mexico fans throwing debris at them – we wisely wore disposable raincoats for the occasion – the rivalry between Mexico and El Salvador, to pick an example not entirely at random, had literally an edge to it, shall we say. The easiest way to forestall discussions on team MVPs from becoming, shall we say, unreasonably frank? Lose the flags. And, since you couldn't single out those two flags, the rest of the world was brought along. Once the Galaxy moved into its own stadium, and security was able to focus on not so great an acreage, was national pride welcomed back.

    So what about this claim by NYCFC, via Christian Araos in the Guardian?

    The supporters section at Yankee Stadium is general admission so any of them can purchase a ticket and sit there. As long as they refrain from making any obvious gestures or shout any hateful slogans, there’s not much the club can do.

    NYC FC’s policy is to keep decisions to sanction fans private and the club did not publicize the fact that Antillon – whose tattoos include an SS symbol and the white supremacist phrase “Blood And Honor” in Spanish – was banned permanently after making an offensive gesture at an away game. In line with Garber’s beliefs, NYC FC do not ban fans based on their political beliefs but rather for transgressions directly linked to the club that take place inside or outside stadiums. Another man who attended the Proud Boys event with Antillon was not banned. Since he has no record of offense, he can still attend the club’s games and events

    I think this is about practicality rather than policy. NYCFC did run off Antillon, and I'll bet they wish they had made it public. Knowing MLS front offices as we do, I imagine some form of double secret probation is permanently in effect for dipsticks like this.

    But the NYCFC front office needs to get their heads right. Sure, there's no way to prevent Horst Wessell from buying a ticket with cash, attending the game while keeping his stupid opinions to himself, and then going home again to do the same thing next week. There's absolutely a way to keep Horst out of the bleedin' supporters section, thanks to our friend the video camera. I doubt there are two teams in the league right now who don't have some kind of way to track their supporters groups in-game, and I'm including the one that hasn't had an MLS home game yet.

    Fine, so MLS has the right to bounce anyone for any reason. Should they?

    Okay, since we're now voyaging into the stormy waters of Ought and Should, now is probably a good time to say that from here on in I'm speaking for my own opinion. Let's say I own a team in MLS, like the Loney Rangers or the Loney Wolves or something.

    So, not for any reason. But I'd have a pretty strong policy against politics and religion, and I'll tell you why. I'm trying to sell tickets, and here you are trying to get your cause free publicity.

    That would go for causes I agree with, too. I wouldn’t take pro-choice or pro-life signs or ads. That's not what the fans are here for. That's not what the players are playing for. This isn't the Old Firm.

    But that banner in Seattle, for example, should have stayed. I don't want to sell tickets to people who will keep other people from coming. I don't want to sell tickets to racists, if only because they chase away other customers. There's that "right thing to do" going on, sure, but I'm trying to run a business here.

    So you'd confiscate a hammer and sickle flag, or an antifa flag?

    The former cheerfully, the latter with an explanation that since anarchism and socialism are technically political movements, this isn't the time or place. Again, this is me talking. You, as owner or investor/operator or general manager or whatever, have the right to drop-kick anyone and watch them bounce on their way out.

    And would you let Communists or antifa attend games?

    Sure. Why not?

    Why would you let violent people in the stadium?

    As long as they're not violent in the stadium. I wouldn't want to ban ex-convicts, for example. They've apparently served their debt to society, if they're walking around loose, and they of all people could probably use a good soccer game to cheer them up. I'll try not to let the Communists starve out the kulaks of Section 203 or wherever.

    Hey, the Soviet Union was –

    Not cool. Gotcha. And if they come to my games and act all Commie, that's different. But if they want to kick back and enjoy soccer, they're welcome.

    So you'd also let in Nazis, if they didn't do any Nazi things during the game?

    Oh, hell no. You get your picture online as one of those Proud Boy crapsacks, I'll put your face up in the office next to the people who try to pay for tickets with home-printed money.

    How do we know they're Nazis?

    Close enough for jazz, as the great Stan Freberg would have put it.

    So why is extreme right-wing worse than extreme left-wing?

    Oh, you don't really want my opinion - fine:



    That's pretty much it. People are born targets of this kind of ideology. Communism doesn't have what you'd call a great track record, either, and if you were to make the case that trying to establish Communism inevitably leads to authoritarianism, I'd listen politely. But you could make an equally fair case that whatever happens in practice, Stalin's Soviet Union was not what Marxism intended. A single-family monarchy in North Korea was not what Communism intended.

    The Third Reich was exactly what Nazism intended. There's not even a poor plausible cover for fascism. Violence is as much a part of fascism as potatoes are in potato chips.

    So wherever you would draw the line, if you're drawing it in a way that includes Nazis, you're making a series of wrongheaded mistakes.

    Several supporters groups, specifically Portland and Chicago, have already come to similar conclusions on moral grounds. We have to assume that Don Garber is looking at this topic from a legal and financial view - he must be worried about some lowlife suing the league for unjust discrimination or pre-crime from "Majority Report" or something.

    To which the response could, would and should be: So? Let them sue. Let them complain. Let them tell all the world that racists aren't allowed in Major League Soccer games. And let them spend whatever they can afford on legal fees. We're not talking about Rocco Commisso or Riccardo Silva here - at least, I hope not.

    And no, it won't keep every misguided, misbegotten miscreant out of the stands. If they hide their tattoos, skip the hand gestures, leave the banners and flags, and quietly blend in with other fans in general admission, it will be difficult to track them down and kick them out.

    That's fine. If we can't change their hearts, at least let's shut their mouths.




    __________

    So Eric Wynalda retold one of the stories his career at the USL site. Not that long a story short, Waldo missed an easy shot, made a joke about it in the locker room afterward, and one of the veterans threw a cleat at his face in rage.

    The moral of the story is that soccer is a deadly serious job without joy or fun or happiness:

    This may seem like a small thing to you. A forgettable moment in a long career. But for me, as a young player, that day taught me a lot about what it means to be a pro. It was humbling.

    Because here’s the truth: If you want to make it to the highest level, there’s no “Hey nice try, you’ll get ‘em next time.” There’s just success, and failure, and accountability.

    That’s it.

    This story has bugged me for a while, but this is the first time I've read or heard it without the usual distracting lesson Wynalda has added to this story over the years, along the lines that promotion and relegation inspires and demands this kind of constant devotion to excellence. Well, that narrative isn't going to truck very well in USL for the foreseeable, so it's now a more generalized lesson about accountability.

    And now I know what's wrong with the story.

    Wynalda's team at the time was 1.FC Saarbrucken. They were, in fact, relegated that year, and have never returned to the Bundesliga. As it happened, Saarbrucken finished tied for fifteenth place, and were relegated on goal differential. So the goal that Wynalda missed was directly responsible for Saarbrucken dropping out of the Bundesliga.

    No, of course not. Saarbrucken finished dead last, four points from safety in an era where a win was two points. Had Wynalda scored the winning goal that afternoon or evening, whichever it was? Saarbrucken would have had six wins all season, instead of five.

    So when I hear this story, I don't picture a young American learning about professionalism. I see a borderline pro using a young player as a scapegoat.

    In 1993, being a loose cannon was his entire reputation, thanks to the 1990 World Cup red card against Czechoslovakia. Saarbrucken didn't bring this kid in for his steel nerves. Wynalda isn't telling a story about professionalism. He's telling a story about a club in badly over its head, talentless and desperate, cracking under pressure.

    Oh, interesting bit of trivia. Saarbrucken's leading scorer that season? Currently coaching the Las Vegas Lights. Maybe Wynalda's veteran teammate should have been throwing his shoes elsewhere. And hopefully one of Coach Wynalda's lessons in professionalism will be something about not throwing cleats at your leading scorer's eyeball.
     
?

Who would you ban from your team? Select as many as you like

  1. Nazis

    27 vote(s)
    77.1%
  2. Scientologists

    12 vote(s)
    34.3%
  3. Commies

    5 vote(s)
    14.3%
  4. Other team's fans

    5 vote(s)
    14.3%
  5. Whigs

    10 vote(s)
    28.6%
  6. Bieber fans

    18 vote(s)
    51.4%
  7. Juggalos

    10 vote(s)
    28.6%
  8. Parrotheads

    9 vote(s)
    25.7%
  9. Soccer comedy writers

    12 vote(s)
    34.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.

Comments

Discussion in 'Articles' started by Dan Loney, Mar 9, 2019.

    1. gunnerfan7

      gunnerfan7 Member+

      SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
      United States
      Jul 22, 2012
      Pleasanton, California
      Club:
      Arsenal FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      To be fair, nobody said they had to be funny. They just have to try.
       
    2. AndyMead

      AndyMead Homo Sapien

      Nov 2, 1999
      Seat 12A
      Club:
      Sporting Kansas City

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      How the hell is what I said splitting hairs? I mean literally WTactualF?
       
    3. gunnerfan7

      gunnerfan7 Member+

      SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
      United States
      Jul 22, 2012
      Pleasanton, California
      Club:
      Arsenal FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      I suppose I should've said that I'm splitting hairs, but I think it's disingenuous to divorce the ideas of Marx and Engels from Lenin and Stalin. As I said, it's usually followed by an excuse for totalitarian regimes of widespread cruelty.

      To Lenin's credit, he didn't want Stalin, a Georgian thug, to gain power. But Lenin and Stalin both committed atrocities attempting to carry out the utopic ideas of Marx and Engels. You can't completely divorce the two pairs, particularly when a dozen or so countries, from Zimbabwe to China, have tried to do the same.
       
    4. Beau Dure

      Beau Dure Member+

      May 31, 2000
      Vienna, VA

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      I feel like that's like blaming Adam Smith for Qatar and Saudi Arabia.
       
    5. gunnerfan7

      gunnerfan7 Member+

      SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
      United States
      Jul 22, 2012
      Pleasanton, California
      Club:
      Arsenal FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      The execution of Marx's 10 tasks (to do immediately following victory over the Capitalists) necessarily creates a totalitarian state as a step on the path to Communist utopia. As I said, the issue is that nobody's ever gotten past that step. But some keep trying, and in the trying, commit atrocities. Easy to do when you cannot see others as individual humans, remove religious institutions that indicate the intrinsic value of human lives, and completely re-structure your entire society based on group identity.

      Capitalism is far from blameless, but I feel it's more to blame for the "company towns" of the 19th century, child labor, and the like. Besides which, you'd have to blame all of Western civilization and the poverty reduction of Asia/Africa on Smith too. Decent trade.
       
    6. Beau Dure

      Beau Dure Member+

      May 31, 2000
      Vienna, VA

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      And you'd have to blame the quality of life through much of Western Europe on socialist ideas like universal health care.

      I'll grant that Marx wanted the state to be firmly central (actually, now that I think about it, it's vaguely Socratic), but he was an idealist who wanted to do so on behalf of people he considered (rightly, in many cases) to be oppressed.

      Religion is a big part of the USA's suspicion of anything vaguely socialist. Communism is indeed disdainful of religion, to put it mildly. In socialist countries, religion is not dead.

      The "godless communist" argument has faded a bit since the Cold War, so instead, the argument is that universal health care will turn us into Venezuela.

      Meanwhile, the economy is growing rapidly in Vietnam.
       
    7. gunnerfan7

      gunnerfan7 Member+

      SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
      United States
      Jul 22, 2012
      Pleasanton, California
      Club:
      Arsenal FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      Most "communist" countries are capitalist countries in communist clothing. A massive government apparatus looms over the culture and economy, but for the most part, you're still just supposed to make money however you can, just like in capitalist countries. Vietnam certainly likes the idea (https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-03-12/it-turns-out-communist-vietnam-loves-capitalism-more-us-does).

      The ones that are truly command economies get shafted at regular intervals as market conditions change, as Venezuela illustrates (can't import all of your food and tie your entire economy to oil prices because if they go down...).

      I guess I really don't ascribe "socialism" to "communism", because I think of "socialism" as the redistribution of wealth (to whatever degree), which has happened just about everywhere since always. Now it's just expanded into a wider array of goods and services from whatever original tribute/tax it used to be. As someone born after the fall of the USSR, I don't see it as a byword for "communism", and more as a byword for either an expensive/expansive government program, or Federal/State control over a previously private-sector industry.

      Which, to be fair, I'm not sure about, because I'm not sure if my idea of "capitalism" is actually true either. I got into some big argument with a guy on another board about it, because he was arguing that capitalism implies a set of social-political systems... except he could never define what those were.
       
    8. zaqualung

      zaqualung Member+

      Jun 17, 2015
      San Francisco
      Club:
      Liverpool FC

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      First off, Lenin and Stalin didn't intend the same thing as many so glibly put it. Even a cursory knowledge of Lenin's last days and his stated worries about Stalin would show this. Lenin created a monster, but how much of a monster he wished for as necessity is up for debate. I personally doubt (had he lived another 15 or so years that he would have wished to murder Sergei Kirov or Bukharin, Zinoviev, Kamenev, et al ....) and maybe the Soviet Union would have been a much nicer place than it turned into, who knows? I doubt it would have been as serene as Switzerland or New Zealand or Ireland but you'd probably have been happier there in 1938 than you would have been as a black man in Mississippi or Alabama....

      Lenin was a murderous swine, sure - but so was Ronnie Reagan - it tends to go with the territory of political iconoclast. So, all that said, as regards what people actually stand for, rather than painting in such broad strokes it might be easier to identify movements that are at the present actively engaged in the pursuit of totalitarian brutality and murder. This would certainly start with Nazis, who already identify themselves that way. So, for the extreme right, self identification is the issue. Nazi salutes and swastikas and the rest of that kind of hostile parading banned - fine, I say. What is not okay is for the equation to be made that this is balanced out by the kind of people who would wear a plough and sickle or a Che-Guevara shirt. These things by definition do not stand for violence. On the extreme left I don't see too many people in civilized countries advocating for communism or Maoism or Pol-Potism. If they are then they are right up there with Nazis - however identification of these sort of people is tricky, particularly as what you do see and hear a lot of in the US, are people vainly attempting to equate socialism to communism for the trough-feed of the easily led and the pursuit of nefarious purposes, all the while conveniently forgetting that NEVER in any democratic, non-third world, country has a socialist government ever come to power and not voluntarily relinquished it at the end of their elected term of office. This despite the mendaciously opposite ramblings of the great buffoon during his state of the union address this year. And that, folks, unpalatable as it might be to Fox News, etc., is a FACT.

      Or did Francois Mitterand roll out a gulag program in France during his long tenure, but manage to hide it from the public (as Stalin did for awhile....)..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
       
      2in10 and AndyMead repped this.
    9. zaqualung

      zaqualung Member+

      Jun 17, 2015
      San Francisco
      Club:
      Liverpool FC

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      Not difficult at all, in my opinion. While the actions of some antifa people may be reprehensible, paramilitary is a misnomer. Paramilitaries (any that I've seen) carry guns, just for starters.
      Whether people like it or not, being willing to become a vandal and get engaged in violent demonstrations is not the same thing as joining an organization dedicated to the idea of killing those deemed to be inferior or enemy people.
       
    10. zaqualung

      zaqualung Member+

      Jun 17, 2015
      San Francisco
      Club:
      Liverpool FC
      #35 zaqualung, Mar 22, 2019
      Last edited: Mar 22, 2019

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      Capitalism isn't a rigid or exact system. So, it would be a silly argument trying to define it. The problems with capitalism are lack of regulation and hidden controls of power. (For example, no one now disputes the opposite of this: that 10-12 hour workdays for 11 years olds in Manchester Mills was not exploitation but rather honest free trade in practice. Nor that Rockefeller, Carneige and a few other selectmen-not-selected should get to have the final secret say over what gets done and where.) Once you regulate these things effectively then the largesse created by the benefits of trade are more available to benefit everyone, except the 1-2% of people who (understandably, even though illegally) do not want this to happen.....
      However, the perspectives of democratic socialism (the only really workable and acceptable system for everyone) have long been the target of a slickly manipulable slander industry in the USA.
       
      2in10 and Beau Dure repped this.
    11. gunnerfan7

      gunnerfan7 Member+

      SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
      United States
      Jul 22, 2012
      Pleasanton, California
      Club:
      Arsenal FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      Mao murdered way more people than Hitler or Stalin. As Bill Burr says, "those are some Hall of Fame numbers!". There's less of a visceral reaction towards it, but it's hardly arguable. The continued excuse-making for evil people and evil ideas, simply because they're not as publicized and recognizably "bad" as Hitler, is how the USSR can trick the Western intellectual class into thinking that gulags don't exist, or that group identity is a superior worldview.

      But that's perhaps a separate issue. I think what this whole thing boils down to is, when there is a sporting event, you're cramming lots of strangers of all ages into a small space. If you are displaying imagery that is provocative, the team/venue has a responsibility to try to reduce the risk of incidents. Normally, you don't ban blue/red clothing. But you might if you're dealing with Bloods/Crips gang violence. Nazi imagery is powerful and disruptive, so ban it. If there's a similarly-visceral reaction to the hammer/sickle, ban that too. My only wish is that we curtail speech for safety reasons in this specific and limited instance, not because you're upset that it exists.
       
    12. zaqualung

      zaqualung Member+

      Jun 17, 2015
      San Francisco
      Club:
      Liverpool FC
      #38 zaqualung, Mar 22, 2019
      Last edited: Mar 22, 2019

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      I wouldn't argue it. And I dislike all three of them about equally. (But I would say this. Mao's murders numbers get a drastic rise from a famine taht became unstoppable and that the state then used as another form of coercive authority to stamp upon its people) but it wasn't generated as an idea to beget the end result it got, not in the same way that Hitler and Stalin formulated their ideas about murder.....
      Put that another way, if you gifted Hitler or Stalin China then I think you'd get the same or better numbers!
       
    13. gunnerfan7

      gunnerfan7 Member+

      SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
      United States
      Jul 22, 2012
      Pleasanton, California
      Club:
      Arsenal FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      If I had confidence that the government could do these things well, universal healthcare, universal education, and other dreams would be far more palatable. People's expectations of government vs. private vs. individual responsibilities change, so who knows?
       
    14. gunnerfan7

      gunnerfan7 Member+

      SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
      United States
      Jul 22, 2012
      Pleasanton, California
      Club:
      Arsenal FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      I actually think you, paradoxically, might have gotten less. Stalin and Hitler were obsessed with ethnic identity.

      Stalin just so happened to target the Ukranian kulaks. He just so happened to starve and kill more the Lithuanians, Estonians, and (infamously) the Tartars. Sure, he purged the Russians too, but it somehow hit the other ethnic groups far harder...

      And of course, Hitler targeted all sorts of people of various ethnicities, as well as the mentally infirm, etc.

      I wonder if China's 99 percent Han Chinese ethnic makeup would've meant that Hitler/Stalin would've simply installed a police state and killed political opponents.
       
    15. zaqualung

      zaqualung Member+

      Jun 17, 2015
      San Francisco
      Club:
      Liverpool FC

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      a separate issue?? That was the 1930s and 40s and into th e50s ffs .... Intellectuals woke up to this at around the same time they were waking up to the menace inherent in Eisenhower's message....

      70 years later we live in a world of different tools for propaganda, one that may be even more dangerous because people think they are already soo damn smart....
       
    16. zaqualung

      zaqualung Member+

      Jun 17, 2015
      San Francisco
      Club:
      Liverpool FC

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      They've done it well enough wherever it's been tried in the developed world. Only one place contains an active opposition to the idea. (For spurious reasons.)

      If you are going to have that kind of argument then I'd wonder what would have made either of them ethnically Han Chinese??? ;)
       
    17. gunnerfan7

      gunnerfan7 Member+

      SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
      United States
      Jul 22, 2012
      Pleasanton, California
      Club:
      Arsenal FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      Yes, with much more effective government apparatuses. Particularly, "top-down" systems of political power, as opposed to the triplicate difficulties from local, State, and Federal overlapping jurisdictions.

      Because it's not just that many people are resistant to the idea here. The execution will necessarily be different because people (I would say wisely) don't trust the Federal government to execute its promises well.

      And, as an aside, let's not moralize too much here. What matters is the execution, not the model. There's nothing inherently more "morally right" about government providing services compared to the individual/private sectors.
       
    18. gunnerfan7

      gunnerfan7 Member+

      SJ Earthquakes/Arsenal
      United States
      Jul 22, 2012
      Pleasanton, California
      Club:
      Arsenal FC
      Nat'l Team:
      United States

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      First of all, your timeline is off by about 2-3 decades.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

      In his own time, Aleksander Solzynitzen (IDK how to spell it) was called out as a fraud by people unwilling to accept the reality that was the USSR. His first book a decade earlier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Day_in_the_Life_of_Ivan_Denisovich) didn't convince people enough. I read a book on an American turned-Soviet-spy, and it detailed the intellectual Left's reluctance to catch up to the truth.
       
    19. (They call him) RMc

      Jun 1, 2013
      Club:
      Celtic FC

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      Lenin was a murderous swine, sure - but so was Ronnie Reagan

      BigSoccer! Come for the idiotic soccer commentary, stay for the idiotic political commentary...!
       
      SierraSpartan repped this.
    20. Dan Loney

      Dan Loney BigSoccer Supporter

      Mar 10, 2000
      Cincilluminati
      Club:
      Los Angeles Sol
      Nat'l Team:
      Philippines

      American Soccer - Disallowed Boys and Booty Call

      By Dan Loney on Mar 9, 2019 at 1:59 AM
      Oh, trust me, nobody is saying I'm funny
       
      AndyMead repped this.

Share This Page