"American Professional Soccer": take notice, ignore, or laugh?

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by LordRobin, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    FYP
    The problem is more basic than you think.
     
  2. asroma1982

    asroma1982 Member

    Sep 1, 2016
    Club:
    AS Roma
    i mean mls mentality is do we have to win a games it is not like we going to get relegated, and do we have to go for first place because that means nothing we can just go for 6th place that leads to playoffs. i mean games mean nothing in mls it is always the next year for some teams.
     
  3. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    The point is that this thread is not about MLS. It's about another league.

    (But for the record, MLS players do try to improve on sixth place. They want playoff byes and the Supporters Shield.)
     
  4. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  5. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So you're saying professional players don't try?

    Also, again, this is not a thread about MLS.

    I'm sure players play really hard in the UPSL, which (supposedly) has pro/rel. Go watch them.
     
  6. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    My indoor soccer league had pro/rel. We tried to convince them not to promote us to the upper division.
     
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  7. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  8. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    msilverstein47 repped this.
  9. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    Len, msilverstein47 and Roger Allaway repped this.
  10. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    so I just called the Lancaster folks and they seem to believe that the league agreed to postpone the match...so the mystery continues...lol
     
  11. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1921-1933
    Then it died, was revived, eventually self-destructing trying to complete with NASL.
     
  12. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. asroma1982

    asroma1982 Member

    Sep 1, 2016
    Club:
    AS Roma
    what i am saying games don't matter. reason why nfl is big in ratings is because games matter. then look at nba and baseball 82 and 162 not all games matter and ratings drop if mls would promote relegation and promotion i bet ratings and popularity would go up for mls and that means that american soccer ratings would go up
     
  14. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and I would take that bet and your money
     
  15. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, that isn't the reason.

    The societal reasons for gridiron football's ascension to the top of American sport space are many and varied, but the games "mattering" (whatever TF THAT means, given nearly half the teams make the playofffs and they would like to add more) is not high on that list. That is a superficial understanding you are utilizing to try to make your absurd point. Which, again, IS ABOUT MLS IN A THREAD ABOUT THE ASL.

    Again....those sports' relative popularity as compared to the NFL has a lot to do with a lot of things, but your perception of how much each individual game "matters" is not among them.


    Yes, we would add all the hyphens and posers who claim that's what is keeping them from watching now.




    Just kidding, you would all find some other ********ing reason not to watch.
     
  16. mike the mas

    mike the mas Member

    Feb 19, 2017
    I don'k know about that kenn. I think there is something to how much the games matter. I'm not saying pro/rel is a magic answer, but I think scarcity of games in very relevant in the desire to watch and attend games. Also significantly less NFL teams(38%) make the postseason that NHL or NBA(53%). Also seeds matter in the NFL, in the Stanley cup playoffs, weather you make it as the division winner or wild card get you a maximum of one extra home game. In the nfl a week 27 game between two team already qualified for the playoffs can still have a huge impact on the season. There is a huge prize in moving from the 5/6 seed to the 3/4 seed or from the 3/4 seed to 1/2. and in college football every single game matters for bragging right for the whole year.
     
  17. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But my point is those sports are not where they are in the hierarchy by virtue of the percentage of "meaningful" games or the percentage of teams that make the playoffs in a given league. That's not why gridiron football is on top of American sport space. That's not why baseball - which once was - has been second for some 50 years. That's not why the NHL and NBA are where they are. It's just not.

    The societal reasons for the rearrangement of the sport space - from the days when it was college football, boxing and horse racing that were the big deals to today - are many and varied, and "meaningful games" are way down the list.

    Do we think any baseball game in April could possibly be "meaningful?" Yet people attend them, right? Baseball is the second-most attended sport in the country, on average. How many "meaningful" AAA games are there? Yet people go see the Sacramento River Cats and the Louisville Bats play.

    College football brings emotion and tradition into the equation. While "every game matters" in college football because your second loss pretty much takes you out of the running, there are still a lot of non-competitive college football games (power conference schools paying smaller schools to come get beat up in a non-conference schedule). Yet people go.

    How "meaningful" the individual game is or series of individual games are simply aren't what drives interest in a sport.
     
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  18. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, even in the NFL, there are a lot of dead rubber games at the end of the season between teams that have been eliminated from the playoffs. People show up for those anyway. Last season the Cleveland Browns, the worst team in the league, had 60k show up in snow to watch them play the all-but-eliminated Cincinnati Bengals, and then had 57k in the stadium to see them play the eliminated San Diego Chargers.
     
  19. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Part of that is because the vast majority of NFL tickets are sold as season tickets. Given the cost and the fact there are only eight of them in the regular season, people tend to use them, regardless. (Truly dreadful teams will show lots of empty seats in such a game, obviously, but when you have sprung for season tickets - maybe for years and years - you're not inclined to let them go to waste.)

    Plus, footbawwwwwwwww.
     
  20. (They call him) RMc

    Jun 1, 2013
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Do we think any baseball game in April could possibly be "meaningful?" Yet people attend them, right? Baseball is the second-most attended sport in the country, on average. How many "meaningful" AAA games are there? Yet people go see the Sacramento River Cats and the Louisville Bats play.

    People watch baseball because watchin' baseball is fun. As somebody once said, "The best thing in the world is to root for a winning baseball team. The second-best thing is to root for a losing baseball team!"
     
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  21. Beau Dure

    Beau Dure Member+

    May 31, 2000
    Vienna, VA
    I went to a minor-league baseball game yesterday. The amount of distraction is substantial. We were there as part of a program to recognize kids who read. It was also "Harry Potter Day," so when each batter from the visiting team came up, their stats were displayed with a picture of Voldemort, Draco Malfoy or some other bad guy from the Potter series. The home team had their mugshots Photoshopped onto some generic Hogwarts robes, and they were assigned to one of the four houses. When a player hit a home run, everyone sitting in the Gryffindor section of the stands (we were unaware we were doing so) received free tickets to an upcoming game.

    I have no idea who won the game.

    When I was at Duke, the Durham Bulls were still in the old decrepit-but-charming ballpark you see in the fantastic film "Bull Durham." My classmates would go to games to drink a beer an inning and chant "Bulls hit, Bulls hit."

    Even major-league games are basically picnics with a game going on. Camden Yards is a great place to visit. Go to Boog's, shake hands with someone who starred for the Orioles a few decades ago, have some ribs or crab cakes, check out the charming sliver of Baltimore's skyline, etc. And make fun of Red Sox fans if Boston's in town.
     
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  22. FC Concordia

    FC Concordia Member

    Nov 25, 2011
    Did you notice that it went extra innings? :)

    In ASL news, the League wants 32 teams in four divisions. No list of newcomers, though. Seeing how it started with 10 teams, and then started with two fewer each subsequent year, it will need to turn the tide. http://www.aslsoccer.org/latest_vipnews.asp?action=view_newsdetail&id=170
     
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  23. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's what the pro/rel snobs miss about sports in general. I watch soccer because I like watching soccer!
     
  24. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But unless every game and every season has a larger meaning and is a test of how much misery you can endure as a fan and how loyal you can be to 23 people you'll probably never meet, it doesn't mean anything! The way teams are arranged is crucial.
     
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  25. CFL-fan

    CFL-fan Member

    May 1, 2006
    Maryland
    In all the postulating going on, no one has mentioned the real reason the NFL is so big and to some extent why pro/rel works in other countries.

    GAMBLING.

    You can find a way to gamble on every meaningless NFL game (some teams are virtually eliminated in training camp) and at least in the UK there seems to be a bookmaker on every street. If pro/rel means so much, why are clubs in the middle of the table who cannot move at this point still drawing crowds.

    I would like to apologize for this post and have this thread return now to the ASL I want some humor back in my life. ;)
     

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