American expansion possibilities

Discussion in 'NWSL Expansion' started by WPS_Movement, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I didn't see the live discussion with Duffy this weekend, but here's EQZ's summary re: expansion
    https://equalizersoccer.com/2019/04...-week-1-analysis-expansion-tv-world-cup-news/
     
  2. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
  3. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    That is the entirety of it. It was just a one-paragraph summary of whatever was said in the interview. The article overall was about much, much more - basically a round-up of everything both on and off the field as of the first weekend of games.
     
  4. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    So maybe the league adds Los Angeles and relocates one or two franchises? Still holding out hope the RedBulls buy SkyBlue. Wonder what other teams might be in danger of relocation?
     
  5. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  6. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Trying to sell a "New England" team and NOT putting it in Boston seems like a massive misstep to me... Kinda like putting a "New York" team in the middle of New Jersey. *coughcoughSkyBlue*
     
  7. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    I'm not a fan of calling a team by such a generic place-name. Call them Connecticut or call them Hartford. Not some multi-state conglomeration.
     
  8. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    The WNBA's Sun calls themselves the Connecticut Sun. There's an indoor arena lacrosse team that also plays at the Mohegan Sun Arena, but goes by New England. So I think it's a mute issue, IMO. But I see this happening soon as everything gets in line. Hoping we get this Hartford based team and Los Angeles for next season.
     
  9. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I'm in favor, generally, of expansion, but I don't know that there should be a big rush towards it. We're still in a place where team rosters are artificially small and many of the roster spots are essentially semi-pro, certainly not enough to survive a year on.

    I'd rather see the league continue to solidify its fundamentals and be able to provide a living wage to a squad large enough to hold full size intra-squad scrimmages.

    I'm also a little worried about expanding at a time where we see teams playing 24 game seasons and winning one or two games. Is the talent pool out there really ready to add 22/44/66/88 more jobs without making the on-field product worse?

    I'm sure they could scrape up a hundred or two players willing to try to survive a year on $15k to follow their dream of being a professional athlete, but I don't see a reservoir of the players that are going to be the stars of the new teams. Short of eviscerating and weakening the existing teams or extending the playing careers of twilight players like Lloyd. But then is that really going to make the product better? Or are the best teams just going to be worse?

    And that doesn't get into other things like referees and such that'll have to be found somewhere.

    I want to see the league grow and expand, but I'd like to see it get through seasons without a 1 win Sky Blue and a 2 win Spirit. Going from 9 to 11 teams is effectively asking each existing team to give up 3-4 players and replacing them with current non-pros. What that would do is to remove the depth from top teams like Carolina or Portland (not necessarily a terrible thing), but it's going to make the recovery efforts of the weaker teams (like Sky Blue) all that much more problematic.

    I'd like to fix the problems, first.
     
    sitruc repped this.
  10. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    I think the league should stabilize it's weaker teams and consider relocation. But I still think they can get to 12 teams by 2022.
     
  11. Smallchief

    Smallchief Member+

    Oct 27, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Maybe Sky Blue should move to CT?
     
  12. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    Nah, I think the league will have the Red Bulls or NYCFC buy the team first as there was interest at one point.
     
  13. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    The league can't force a sale to buyers that are no longer interested.
     
  14. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nor, I suspect, force an owner to sell against their wishes.
     
  15. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Maybe? I suspect that at the very least the league can force a buyback of the franchise rights if they find the owners to be in violation of league standards or other franchisee'-contract stipulations.
     
  16. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    And that would pretty much kill any interest in potential investors. Why would they invest when, at any moment, the collective could force them out?

    Dan Borowitz killed the WPS with lawsuits rather than go quietly.

    Donald Sterling is still "pursuing options" with regards to the NBA forcing him out.

    MLS didn't force Precourt out

    MLB passed on forcing some owners out over the last 25 years - finding other methods.

    Buying out a team owner against their will is generally an absolute last resort.

    Absent a buyer the best you can do is to find an alternate path. To get the owner to cede control. Ken Horowitz maintained a stake in MLS for a decade after he surrendered control of the Fusion after the other three owners pushed forward with plans he couldn't afford. He wanted to continue the team, but he couldn't afford to. They still didn't "buy him out". The downside is that it has taken nearly 20 years for MLS to re-enter the Miami market.

    There is no sign the Sky Blue ownership wants out, and I suspect politically, it would be a very bad thing to get out right now.

    If they really want to force the issue, the collective could just institute standards that are too expensive for them to keep up with. But the unintended consequences of raising expenses could be disastrous for the league if Sky Blue isn't the only casualty. Let's remember, there is precious little national sponsorship value in the NWSL, and I suspect most of that is payment in kind (jerseys, balls from Nike) and not cash. The national broadcasts have gone away and likely drive no revenue. USSF is footing the bill for much/all of the league operations (what, in the end, sunk Horowitz in MLS) - saving the cash calls. And 30 of the highest paid players aren't in the team payrolls.

    Nuclear options in team sports are rarely imposed because each and every other owner has to realize that once something like that is done, it gets easier to do the next time, and nobody else wants to be next.
     
    sitruc and SiberianThunderT repped this.
  17. toad455

    toad455 Member+

    Nov 28, 2005
    If the Red Bulls or NYCFC want an team and SkyBlue isn't willing to sell, does the league grant the Red Bulls or NYCFC an expansion team?
     
  18. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I think if RBNY or NYCFC started expressing interest again, Sky Blue would probably come to the table, since I want to say (I'm not wholly confident though) that they had instigated the talks they had with one or both MLS teams way back when.

    That said, I think NWSL wouldn't be opposed to a second NY-area MLS-backed expansion team in the same sense that MLS wasn't opposed to (and in fact wanted) a second NY-area (foreign-backed) expansion team.
     
  19. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    #1169 holden, Apr 29, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
    I guess technically Andy is right that Elam Baer wasn't forced to sell, but does anybody (outside of the NWSL inner sanctum) actually know the details of what happened with FCKC? How did that whole thing go down without even a lawsuit happening? Cause from the outside, it certainly seemed like he was forced out. But maybe he was nice and just walked away?
     
  20. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    I dunno, my impression was that he bought FCKC somewhat as a charity move and then realized he bit off more than he could chew and/or it was more trouble than it was worth. At least, it seemed to me that it was a mutual parting of ways, especially when he came out a few months later and said he was still interested in partnering with someone to bring NWSL to Minnesota (so whatever went down, it apparently didn't sour him on working with the league).
     
  21. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    Why did they do the whole expansion process when he could have just sold the team directly to Dell Loy Hansen? Sure maybe Hansen was like “The only way I’ll join the league is as an expansion team” or something. But then why was FCKC still in a sort of limbo after Utah was announced? Why didn’t they just announce FCKC being “contracted” at the same time (or before announcing Utah)?
     
  22. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    IDK... IIRC, they announced UTA before announcing the folding of FCKC, so it might've been a "crossing the T's and dotting the I's" sort of thing? i.e. Everyone knew what was happening, but they had to do it a certain way legally?
     
  23. AMBreakers

    AMBreakers Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Boston Breakers
    I would much rather see a long term plan to bring women's pro soccer back to Boston (even if it were to take 5 or more years to come to fruition) than a "New England" team based in Connecticut- and I'm saying that even though I live right outside of Hartford. Even if you call the team New England the reality is that the majority of New England (including the biggest and most central sports market in NE) is not within reasonable driving distance. As a diehard I used to drive the other way- from Hartford area up to Boston- all the time to support the Breakers, but most casuaI fans wouldn't drive that far that often. Therefore I don't think naming the team New England as opposed to Hartford or Connecticut would do much to increase ticket sales from outside the immediate area.

    The reason why the NWSL era Breakers eventually had to fold is quite clear- a fanbase that had memories of watching a team with some more recognizable names on the roster, that was at least a competitive upper mid-table side, became frustrated with the franchise's lack of ambition toward restoring that identity and eventually ticket sales dropped to the point to where the team couldn't come close to breaking even. But Boston is still a market that drew well in the WPS era and could definitely do so again in the future (say, 5-10 years from now). Of course you need to have the right ownership group interested with a clear vision moving forward and that obviously isn't there right now. I would definitely try to support this Hartford-based NWSL team if it were to happen, because why not if the Breakers don't exist and there is no rivalry there, but I fear this is just a short term solution for the no NE area NWSL team problem and the CT based franchise won't last more than a few years before suffering the same fate as the most recent version of the Breakers did.
     
    SiberianThunderT repped this.
  24. SiberianThunderT

    Sep 21, 2008
    DC
    Club:
    Saint Louis Athletica
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Here's an interesting and maybe worrying tidbit: another reason that the Barca-to-NWSL isn't happening right now is that NWSL's current deal with Nike is slated to end this year and Barca wants to keep using Nike even if NWSL switches to a different kit producer.
    http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/...opardy-nike-deal-toni-duggan-womens-world-cup
    NWSL not being with Nike seems insane, considering the link between Nike and USSF (their deal doesn't end until after 2020)... Unless NWSL unties itself from USSF?
     
    holden repped this.
  25. holden

    holden Member+

    Dundee FC, Yeovil Town LFC, Girondins de Bordeaux
    Oct 20, 2009
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Dundee FC
    I wouldn’t be surprised if the MLS backed teams (and potential MLS backed teams...) would be pushing for that and would want to align the NWSL’s apparel manufacturer with MLS’s for synergy purposes.
     

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